Proof the Earth is round

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Floyd Eye said:
Ok, how do we know that ? Because Einstein theorized it ? Because atomic clocks move slower at light speed ? When you say it would be an instant to an observer, how can you know or prove it ?

Again, I’m not saying it’s not that way, I’m saying A) I don’t know that for certain and B) why would anyone assume that ? What is it that made Einstein think that ?
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I meant that as that's what would happen according to the current accepted model/special relativity. We don't have the technology to design an experiment to test the theory. The best we have practically is the thing with an atomic clock on the surface and in space that was mentioned earlier. The math lines up with the prediction of how far off the clocks would be from each other. There might be something that can be done with a particle accelerator to show something. But that's getting into quantum physics which seems to have its own set of rules.
 
Thumbpicker said:
Solomon still came to the right conclusion in Ecclesiastes. You can still have human knowledge and realise that God is the only thing that is important. That doesn't make all human knowledge wrong though. It's ultimately meaningless to your eternity though. As for your comment on Protestantism - you are judging. You know the early church made many mistakes. If you stray from what the Bible says you are making a mistake. Be careful you don't confuse your rituals for what the Bible and God actually tells you to do. God doesn't like empty rituals.
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Without taking holy communion, you have no life in you so whether it is ritualistic or not is of no consequence. It's not magickal, it's liturgical. There is nothing empty about the orthodox liturgy. It fulfills all of Christs commandments in a single sunday morning.
 
VonBonfire said:
Its not that he doesn't care about it, he just doesn't make value judgments on a person based on their knowledge (or lack thereof) of any given secular topic or worldly achievement. "God is not a respecter of persons". Romans 2 11
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I get that God's judgement isn't based on gained knowledge. But why does logic and the gospel have to be at odds? Seems like they could coexist together. Or is the gospel not logical?
 
VonBonfire said:
Without taking holy communion, you have no life in you so whether it is ritualistic or not is of no consequence. It's not magickal, it's liturgical. There is nothing empty about the orthodox liturgy. It fulfills all of Christs commandments in a single sunday morning.
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There is more to the Christian life than Communion.
 
MadAsAHatter said:
I get that God's judgement isn't based on gained knowledge. But why does logic and the gospel have to be at odds? Seems like they could coexist together. Or is the gospel not logical?
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It is not at odds. He is making it at odds.

I have to go - I'm going on a motorcycle ride with my club this morning. Have a good day.
 
MadAsAHatter said:
I get that God's judgement isn't based on gained knowledge. But why does logic and the gospel have to be at odds? Seems like they could coexist together. Or is the gospel not logical?
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Because the miraculous workings the Lord is known for are not compatible with secular logic. Science would deny every miracle Christ ever worked from turning water to wine to resurrecting Lazarus.

Thumbpicker said:
There is more to the Christian life than Communion.
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Communion with Jesus Christ is the entire lesson of the gospel and the reason that for 1500 years every sunday worship service was completely based around it. Even early protestant denominations like Anglicanism and Lutheranism still contain liturgical elements.
 
VonBonfire said:
Because the miraculous workings the Lord is known for are not compatible with secular logic. Science would deny every miracle Christ ever worked from turning water to wine to resurrecting Lazarus.
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But just because you could explain how something happened doesn't make it any less of a miracle. I would almost argue that it would make it more of a miracle. Let's say Jesus used chemistry to change water to wine and we could explain the processes. Would you not consider it a miracle that God designed all these microscopic particles so precisely that they would interact with each other in just the right way to convert water to wine?
 
MadAsAHatter said:
But just because you could explain how something happened doesn't make it any less of a miracle. I would almost argue that it would make it more of a miracle. Let's say Jesus used chemistry to change water to wine and we could explain the processes. Would you not consider it a miracle that God designed all these microscopic particles so precisely that they would interact with each other in just the right way to convert water to wine?
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When I was a Christian I believed the two were compatible. Evolution could be the process god used to create the earth, man and animals. A day to god is, I forget, 1000 years or something. That explains a lot.
 
MadAsAHatter said:
But just because you could explain how something happened doesn't make it any less of a miracle.
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Miracles and holy communion are a mystery of God, not "science" so there is no explaining it with classroom terms, hence the gospel not being compatible with secular logic.

MadAsAHatter said:
Let's say Jesus used chemistry to change water to wine and we could explain the processes. Would you not consider it a miracle that God designed all these microscopic particles so precisely that they would interact with each other in just the right way to convert water to wine?
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If it was just a scientific process then it is no longer a miracle and Christ is no longer God incarnate because any corn fed can follow the recipe and make it happen. And truly, if what you were suggesting was the case, it would be used for evil. One of the great goals of medical tech has been to shut off the "aging" gene because men wish to live forever outside Christ. The Lord would never allow such a thing.
 
VonBonfire said:
Miracles and holy communion are a mystery of God, not "science" so there is no explaining it with classroom terms, hence the gospel not being compatible with secular logic.


If it was just a scientific process then it is no longer a miracle and Christ is no longer God incarnate because any corn fed can follow the recipe and make it happen. And truly, if what you were suggesting was the case, it would be used for evil. One of the great goals of medical tech has been to shut off the "aging" gene because men wish to live forever outside Christ. The Lord would never allow such a thing.
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How would that make Christ no longer God incarnate? I don't see how one would affect the other. I'm suggesting that we can understand how complex process work and still see it as a miracle in the way it was designed by God. I would think that God creating us in a way that we could understand such things is a miracle in itself. What makes you think that understanding processes would automatically translate to being used for evil? That's kind of pessimistic. Aren't we able to live with Christ in our heart? How would living longer be living outside of Christ? We would still be living within his creation as well.
 
Monkey Man said:
Unless one believes in the unscriptural day-age theory, the plants only had to survive a day or two until they received "real" light.


The huge inland sea that would've been left-behind after the flood eventually sprung a leak and carved that channel through the mountains, dumping a ridiculous amount of silt into the Gulf of Mexico. It would've happened quickly and it's the only rational explanation.

No river can flow uphill so that theory's a non-starter.
All rivers cave in at their banks and gain width as opposed to somehow being able to carve ever-deeper.
All such phenomena I'm aware of were obviously quick-carves.
The layers you see in the canyon are simple stratification of mud particles you can approximate every time you mix soil and water, shake it up and let it settle.

Just my perspective brother. :dunno:


Are they made of granite?

I can't speak for other rocks, but granite's a great fly in the ointment of the earth's crust supposedly once being molten rock. If you melt it and let it cool down it changes completely into something that looks like black, shiny glass.

A profound-and-conveniently-ignored fact.
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Acknowledging
 
MadAsAHatter said:
How would that make Christ no longer God incarnate? I don't see how one would affect the other. I'm suggesting that we can understand how complex process work and still see it as a miracle in the way it was designed by God. I would think that God creating us in a way that we could understand such things is a miracle in itself. What makes you think that understanding processes would automatically translate to being used for evil? That's kind of pessimistic. Aren't we able to live with Christ in our heart? How would living longer be living outside of Christ? We would still be living within his creation as well.
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You ask good questions.

If any tom dick or harry can pull off the same miracles as Jesus that would diminish the work of the gospel. What set him, and many early church fathers apart, is that they could perform those miracles IN CHRIST, not outside of it. If it were just a process then those outside Christ would also perform them and diminish man's desire to turn to him in prayer because they can do it themselves.

It would be used for evil because according to the bible men are born into sin, and so are inclined to evil deeds. I don't think it would be "automatically used for evil". If God allowed anyone with the know how to perform miracles the first thing that would happen is it would be for sale to the highest bidder, just like everything else.
 
VonBonfire said:
Which means @japetus is going to be washing up for his 5:30 supper soon. :LOL:
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