1st Rig. 1st Post......

[rsm]

MIDI connections don't send any audio; connecting a keyboard using MIDI into the Core will not send any audio signal into the Core.

You would have to connect the keyboard out to the line level input (the combination 1/4" & XLR) input. Not sure if the guitar input on the Core can be set to line level.

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Combo jack is balanced, meaning it can take the XLR or a 1/4" TRS, and likely and unbalanced TS cable. Whatever is going into that combo jack has to be either mic or line level audio source.

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I haven't looked at the Behringer Xenyx and other mixers in awhile, I was using it as an example, and how I use mine (in front of powered PA cabs with a Sub or USB into computer).

Xenyx is their mic preamps which can be on/off in the signal chain for each channel that takes a mic input; if the Core has mic preamps you could decide which sound better, the Core mic processing or the mixer mic processing.

The British EQ is marketing; but it looks like they are claiming it's based on British studio EQ from the '60s and '70s, which could mean several types Trident, Soundcraft, Neve, Amek, etc. so who knows, it can also be a generalization of those EQs, maybe on the warmer side since they were mostly tube based circuits back then. Again, marketing mostly but could still sound good.

The Q1204 USB and QX1204 USB are almost the same, with the X version adding on-board effects which you may or may not want. Both send audio over USB, both have stereo aux sends / returns which can be used to send signals out, add outboard effects, etc.

Sweetwater usually has good product overviews, specs and even videos which are worth a look IMO: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...er-xenyx-qx1204usb-mixer-with-usb-and-effects

Again, Behringer was just an example, there are many other options which may do what you want better.

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Headrush FRFR-112 is powered.

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I think I'm following. Since I would be tying the EAD10 & the Core into the mixer in this solution I can run both of the stereo 1/4" jacks from each device and connect them to the mixer. Now that everything is in stereo now in the mixer I can cable that out with 2 output cables and connect that to the 2 inputs into the speaker. I will be combining the signals.

Yes, if I understand correctly. Using the Q1204 as an example, channels 5/6 and 7/8 have stereo inputs; channels 1-4 are mono, so you'd have to use say channels 3 and 4 for a stereo signal...I use mono channels for vocals, bass and drums, stereo for guitar and keyboards, it claims 12-input but I only see the 8 channels, unclear where they are getting 12 ins, so you may want to check on that

Read up on that a little bit (can't remember what that is called but acts like something along the lines of blending the two initially separated channels so may be unbalanced so may cause some sound issues. A lot of what I was reading was saying that mono would be better.... probably. Also read (which suprised me) that in general, stereo might be good for a home application but for a stage application possibly better to have 2 mono speakers so both speakers playing the same thing. That way people far left and far right of stage (as example) will be hearing the same thing. Does that make sense? Would you agree with that?

Typically PA are stereo, with mono cabs on each side, Left and Right. You route the left out of the mixer to the PA cabs on the left; do the same for the right side. Now you have stereo. Next you have panning, which lets you send the sound, hard left (left side only), center (both sides equal) and hard right (right side only) with all points in between. Stereo devices like the Core, and modern keyboards let you control the panning, and stereo effects such as delay can make the sound "move" from side to side.

 

[rsm]

https://media.sweetwater.com/m/prod...jpg?quality=82&height=750&ha=bcb1016f65a2d216
Looking at the picture for reference channels 1-4 have XLR in, and 1/4" TRS (balanced) or TS (unbalanced) inputs.

It looks like the XLR in expects only mic level signals, and the TRS/ TS inputs only expect line level signals. You would use only one mono input in these channels. Below the line in input, it looks like it's a line signal boost/cut that you can turn on / off if a signal is too weak. 5/6 and 7/8 are line level inputs, also with a +4 dB boost / -10 dB cut.

 

[QuestionThat]

MIDI connections don't send any audio; connecting a keyboard using MIDI into the Core will not send any audio signal into the Core.

Intesting. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I was thinking I read (or saw) that was suitable for a keyboard connection (and not much else really). There are a lot of keyboards in this clip. Guess that's where I got confused. Can you explain what I'm missing here?

You would have to connect the keyboard out to the line level input (the combination 1/4" & XLR) input. Not sure if the guitar input on the Core can be set to line level.

OK. Well that's not really a problem then..... except at the expense of a mic I guess. Or a guitar... if has the line level input you mention. Not finding any info on whether that jack is line level or not. Where would I look in specs for that? Or how do I figure it out short of calling headrush? With the mixer I guess all of this becomes a non issue

Combo jack is balanced, meaning it can take the XLR or a 1/4" TRS, and likely and unbalanced TS cable. Whatever is going into that combo jack has to be either mic or line level audio source.

What the heck does that have to do with the definition of "balanced" lol. Looked into this a LITTLE. Basically, audio signals from devices can be transmitted at various levels.... some higher and some lower than "line level". So thinking you could conceivably boost (maybe thats where a preamp comes in????) an audio signal that was too low and use a jack of a different type to support that device? Not sure how that might work for something that is higher level.... because thinking would need the signal strength so reducing it would be problematic.

I haven't looked at the Behringer Xenyx and other mixers in awhile, I was using it as an example, and how I use mine (in front of powered PA cabs with a Sub or USB into computer).

Understand

Xenyx is their mic preamps which can be on/off in the signal chain for each channel that takes a mic input; if the Core has mic preamps you could decide which sound better, the Core mic processing or the mixer mic processing.

Interesting!

The British EQ is marketing; but it looks like they are claiming it's based on British studio EQ from the '60s and '70s, which could mean several types Trident, Soundcraft, Neve, Amek, etc. so who knows, it can also be a generalization of those EQs, maybe on the warmer side since they were mostly tube based circuits back then. Again, marketing mostly but could still sound good.

That's kind of the impression I was getting from what I was reading. Thanks for clarifying from your point of view.

The Q1204 USB and QX1204 USB are almost the same, with the X version adding on-board effects which you may or may not want. Both send audio over USB, both have stereo aux sends / returns which can be used to send signals out, add outboard effects, etc.

Sweetwater usually has good product overviews, specs and even videos which are worth a look IMO: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...er-xenyx-qx1204usb-mixer-with-usb-and-effects

Again, Behringer was just an example, there are many other options which may do what you want better.

OK. Understand. Thanks. I was looking at Behringer earlier as an option before you mentioned you had Behringer so I was just kind of continuing down that path. Yes, in that case might be good to look at some other options now that I know a little more about this stuff. The biggest search I was doing initially was trying to determine whether the usb outputs channels can be split (sorry can't remember the name of this "feature"). You explained that your Behringer was capable of doing that. So what spec am I looking for to make sure the usb output from the mixeer can be separated like that at the DAW.... for editing purposes

Headrush FRFR-112 is powered.

Thanks for clarifying

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I think I'm following. Since I would be tying the EAD10 & the Core into the mixer in this solution I can run both of the stereo 1/4" jacks from each device and connect them to the mixer. Now that everything is in stereo now in the mixer I can cable that out with 2 output cables and connect that to the 2 inputs into the speaker. I will be combining the signals.

Yes, if I understand correctly. Using the Q1204 as an example, channels 5/6 and 7/8 have stereo inputs; channels 1-4 are mono, so you'd have to use say channels 3 and 4 for a stereo signal...I use mono channels for vocals, bass and drums, stereo for guitar and keyboards, it claims 12-input but I only see the 8 channels, unclear where they are getting 12 ins, so you may want to check on that

So, 3 & 4 for stereo outputs are on the back of the device. That is what I would connect my powered cabinet to right? And I would connect the EAD10 and the Core into EITHER the 5/6 and 7/8 inputs (If I want stereo out of the 3/4 to the cabinet. These 2 stereo out cables could either be connected to one cabinet at the two inputs where the signal would be combined but not true stereo. OR could be split between 2 cabinets and have true stereo.
Optionally, I could just connect the mono outputs (one cable) from both the EAD10 and the Core and then just connect the mixer by one cable to the cabinet for a totally mono system.
The way you're describing breaking down to different instruments I would EITHER need to plug the instruments into the appropriate jack on the mixer (stereo vs mono) OR set up the CORE output of the individual instruments (guessing there is a way to specify this in the software?) so that it's stereo or mono. Where I plug the core into is already defined on the mixer.
Furthermore, If I have ANY stereo input to the mixer then I will need to have the two cables (for stereo) out of the mixer to the speakers.... so I won't conceivably lose part of the signal of the stereo inputs.
On top of that, the USB out to my DAW will know how to separate out all the stereo/ mono inputs and individual instruments/ effects/ vocals so it can send correctly to my DAW for editing appropriately in the software. Is this the general idea?

I hear you on the 12 inputs not being clear on that. I'll look into that too. Guess the smart thing to do is figure out from the band what their setup is and how many inputs they are going to need. Assuming all they will need for outputs would either be one or two cables to either their or my cabinet/ PA.

QuestionThat: Read up on that a little bit (can't remember what that is called but acts like something along the lines of blending the two initially separated channels so may be unbalanced so may cause some sound issues. A lot of what I was reading was saying that mono would be better.... probably. Also read (which suprised me) that in general, stereo might be good for a home application but for a stage application possibly better to have 2 mono speakers so both speakers playing the same thing. That way people far left and far right of stage (as example) will be hearing the same thing. Does that make sense? Would you agree with that?

RSM: Typically PA are stereo, with mono cabs on each side, Left and Right.

Interesting

You route the left out of the mixer to the PA cabs on the left; do the same for the right side. Now you have stereo.

Think I understand this part....

Next you have panning, which lets you send the sound, hard left (left side only), center (both sides equal) and hard right (right side only) with all points in between. Stereo devices like the Core, and modern keyboards let you control the panning, and stereo effects such as delay can make the sound "move" from side to side.

OK. If you say so. This is definitely a lesson for sometime in the future! Had no idea there was so much involved in the sound components. My guess is it gets way way deeper than this. Right now way way out of my league. I'm going to get my mono FRFR hooked up for now and be ecstatic that I can hook up a mixer and everything I need to play into the mix.

 

[QuestionThat]

https://media.sweetwater.com/m/prod...jpg?quality=82&height=750&ha=bcb1016f65a2d216
Looking at the picture for reference channels 1-4 have XLR in, and 1/4" TRS (balanced) or TS (unbalanced) inputs.

It looks like the XLR in expects only mic level signals, and the TRS/ TS inputs only expect line level signals. You would use only one mono input in these channels. Below the line in input, it looks like it's a line signal boost/cut that you can turn on / off if a signal is too weak. 5/6 and 7/8 are line level inputs, also with a +4 dB boost / -10 dB cut.

Think I'm actually following this.... at least on some level.

Do you have an opinion on why I would or would not want the onboard effects in the mixer? I mean my core is going to have effects for vocal and the guitars. And my EAD10 is going to have effects for the drums. None of the other instruments or mics that I plug into the mixer are going to have any effects though (unless the additional guitar players, keyboardist, vocalists bring their own effects/ pedals). So I'm thinking if nobody brings any external effects then all of the effects would need to be assigned to the mixer from the DAW software. And thinking I don't really want to be going into the computer too much when I have a direct interface. I could also lean away from the onboard effects but thinking that some of the different types of "effects" that are contained in mixer have to do with the type of venue etc. So on that note might be useful on some level. It's an upcharge of only $20. So I guess the big question is is there any reason I would not want to have the effects on board the mixer.....

 

[rsm]

Think I'm actually following this.... at least on some level.

Do you have an opinion on why I would or would not want the onboard effects in the mixer? I mean my core is going to have effects for vocal and the guitars. And my EAD10 is going to have effects for the drums. None of the other instruments or mics that I plug into the mixer are going to have any effects though (unless the additional guitar players, keyboardist, vocalists bring their own effects/ pedals). So I'm thinking if nobody brings any external effects then all of the effects would need to be assigned to the mixer from the DAW software. And thinking I don't really want to be going into the computer too much when I have a direct interface. I could also lean away from the onboard effects but thinking that some of the different types of "effects" that are contained in mixer have to do with the type of venue etc. So on that note might be useful on some level. It's an upcharge of only $20. So I guess the big question is is there any reason I would not want to have the effects on board the mixer.....

The effects in the mixer are likely going to be limited, but could be useful if you wanted to add reverb to the entire mix for example; usually the effects apply to the entire mix output, however looking at the QX1204, it's not clear if you can put effects on specific channels. Some of the effects such as modulation and detune don't really make much sense to use on a full mix.

In a band setting, I usually expect each individual musician to bring the gear they need, including any effects, for their parts of songs. I would be surprised if any of them relied on the mixer for effects. Even acoustic drums, I've had drummers that mid'd their own kits, and had a drum mixer / effects, others would let the venue sound crew mic up their drums.

 

[rsm]

MIDI sends / receives control signals such as what note, velocity, volume, duration, etc. or change information change channel, change a parameter, vary a parameter through a defined range, Connecting a keyboard via MIDI will not send the keyboard audio out over MIDI.

mic levels are lower than line level; and why mic inputs usually go into a preamp somewhere in the signal chain, along with other effects such as compression, reverb, etc.

If you look at the Behringer mixers you can see each channel indicates mic or line level inputs. The audio output of most modelers, mixers, modern keyboards, preamps, etc. are line level before any power amplification stage.

balanced signals typically reduce noise and maintain fidelity over long cable runs vs unbalanced, that's all. Depending on the gear, line level can vary as it's a range, which is why line level inputs have a boost and cut to address different gear output.

May need to read the mixer manual or look at the software for it to determine if you get individual channels, combined channels for left and right, or can select either. The Behringer states, "Built-in stereo USB audio interface lets you connect directly to your computer" leads me to believe it doesn't support separate individual outputs for each input.

The way you're describing breaking down to different instruments I would EITHER need to plug the instruments into the appropriate jack on the mixer (stereo vs mono) OR set up the CORE output of the individual instruments (guessing there is a way to specify this in the software?) so that it's stereo or mono. Where I plug the core into is already defined on the mixer.

All the instruments / mic going into the Core are going to be combined (mixed) and sent out over the output. Unclear if the USB out allows separate channels over USB or a combined stereo mix...some audio interfaces with many inputs have many output channels over USB, so you have to really investigate each one to see what it does or not; best place to start is to find the user manual for the gear and read how each feature works to be sure.


yes it can get complex with all the options, and the options you need change with what you're trying to do such as practice with band, have your rig for playing with a band and for practice, recording to a computer, recording live to computer (this would be mic'ing amps, drums, etc.), no volume, low volume or full volume stages,..the list of scenarios


Writing a list for each thing you need and seeing what gear does what you need is a good way to get everything clear. Guitar rig, acoustic drum rig, computer recording rig for individual instrument recording, or full band recording, live music rig, etc.

 

[QuestionThat]

The effects in the mixer are likely going to be limited, but could be useful if you wanted to add reverb to the entire mix for example; usually the effects apply to the entire mix output, however looking at the QX1204, it's not clear if you can put effects on specific channels. Some of the effects such as modulation and detune don't really make much sense to use on a full mix.

Thanks. Not really thinking this matters a whole lot to me as a necessary feature. But probably will end up getting a mixer with the capability regardless because don't seem very expensive as a general rule to get the added functionality.

In a band setting, I usually expect each individual musician to bring the gear they need, including any effects, for their parts of songs. I would be surprised if any of them relied on the mixer for effects. Even acoustic drums, I've had drummers that mid'd their own kits, and had a drum mixer / effects, others would let the venue sound crew mic up their drums.

Makes sense to me. If I'm a sound guy (and I'm not.... obviously) I'm thinking let everyone deal with their own headaches plug in and I'll edit out whatever I need to.... or something like that.

 

[QuestionThat]

MIDI sends / receives control signals such as what note, velocity, volume, duration, etc. or change information change channel, change a parameter, vary a parameter through a defined range, Connecting a keyboard via MIDI will not send the keyboard audio out over MIDI.

Way beyond my comprehension. Gonna trust you on this whole midi thing. For my purposes I know now that connecting a keyboard to those jacks and getting anything out isn't going to happen.

mic levels are lower than line level; and why mic inputs usually go into a preamp somewhere in the signal chain, along with other effects such as compression, reverb, etc.

think i understand this

If you look at the Behringer mixers you can see each channel indicates mic or line level inputs. The audio output of most modelers, mixers, modern keyboards, preamps, etc. are line level before any power amplification stage.

I'm basically following this now...

balanced signals typically reduce noise and maintain fidelity over long cable runs vs unbalanced, that's all. Depending on the gear, line level can vary as it's a range, which is why line level inputs have a boost and cut to address different gear output.

And I think I'm basically following this.

May need to read the mixer manual or look at the software for it to determine if you get individual channels, combined channels for left and right, or can select either. The Behringer states, "Built-in stereo USB audio interface lets you connect directly to your computer" leads me to believe it doesn't support separate individual outputs for each input.

I've been pouring over the pdfs and specs to try and get to the bottom of this. It's as though it is meant to be a secret for the entry level mixers. Not getting a good feeling that they will do this for the usb outputs. I thought that USB/ Audio part implied that eerything could be separated out before it got the DAW. Probably easiest just to call the manufacturer on this to make sure I get it right.

The way you're describing breaking down to different instruments I would EITHER need to plug the instruments into the appropriate jack on the mixer (stereo vs mono) OR set up the CORE output of the individual instruments (guessing there is a way to specify this in the software?) so that it's stereo or mono. Where I plug the core into is already defined on the mixer.

All the instruments / mic going into the Core are going to be combined (mixed) and sent out over the output.

Understand

Unclear if the USB out allows separate channels over USB or a combined stereo mix...some audio interfaces with many inputs have many output channels over USB, so you have to really investigate each one to see what it does or not; best place to start is to find the user manual for the gear and read how each feature works to be sure.

I hear you and think I understand your meaning. Will call manufacturer on this as well.

yes it can get complex with all the options, and the options you need change with what you're trying to do such as practice with band, have your rig for playing with a band and for practice, recording to a computer, recording live to computer (this would be mic'ing amps, drums, etc.), no volume, low volume or full volume stages,..the list of scenarios

A lot to consider for sure. Further along than I was to move towards getting an appropriate system. That's for certain

Writing a list for each thing you need and seeing what gear does what you need is a good way to get everything clear. Guitar rig, acoustic drum rig, computer recording rig for individual instrument recording, or full band recording, live music rig, etc.

Makes sense and I'll take that approach. Talked with the band sound guy this evening and he's of the opinion that a 10 or so channel mixer can work for their purposes at the house. Also seems to be good with the 12" 2000 watt FRFR.
Progress.
Going to pull the trigger on something very shortly now.

Thanks RSM for hanging with me through this.

 

[rsm]

@QuestionThat you're welcome.

I would think if a mixer supported multi-channel audio over USB they would make it clear and how it works in the use manual. If it's not stated in the manual it's probably not supported.

I have an Audient Evo8 audio interface, and it has 4 separate input and 4 separate output channels over the USB connection. They state this directly on the product web page.

This Zoom mixer states,

With the LiveTrak L‑12, you can finally mix, record, and monitor with a single piece of gear. It’s the only digital console that lets you mix your live performance and record up to 12 discrete channels – all while providing five individual custom headphone mixes.

and lists the following (only a partial list)...

• 12 discrete channels (8 mono plus 2 stereo) with XLR or 1/4-inch connectivity
• 14-track simultaneous recording, 12-track playback (this is probably on the device, so you may be able to export it to a computer?)
• 14-in/4-out USB audio interface connectivity (4 out isn't going to be enough, but it's a good start)

https://zoomcorp.com/en/us/digital-mixer-multi-track-recorders/digital-mixer-recorder/livetrak-l-12/

Have to read the manual to understand if it does what it appears to do.

 

[QuestionThat]

Yeah. That's definitely my concern. Not mentioned so not available. And I'm thinking it would be penny wise and pound foolish not to make sure whatever I purchase has that capability. Thanks for the product specs for the audient & the zoom link. I'll definitely take a look at those!

 

[nethanpaul]

Your plan with the GK Ultraphones and Fender Mustang Micro is a solid start for exploring electric guitar silently with headphones and various amp models. You can use it with both electric and acoustic guitars, and it even lets you record to your computer.

The Mustang Micro might not be powerful enough to drive the Fender Tone Master FR12 speaker effectively. It's designed for headphones. Consider a small practice amp instead, like a Fender Blues Jr. III or Champion. This would give you the option to play without headphones and still use the Mustang Micro for effects and recording. Look for amps with headphone jacks so you can still practice silently.

Loopers are recording devices that let you play a short phrase and then loop it over and over, allowing you to build layers of sound. It's not essential for beginners, but can be a fun tool for experimentation later.

For future reference, you can check Fender's website for firmware updates for the Mustang Micro.

 

[QuestionThat]

Your plan with the GK Ultraphones and Fender Mustang Micro is a solid start for exploring electric guitar silently with headphones and various amp models. You can use it with both electric and acoustic guitars, and it even lets you record to your computer.

Thanks for the interest. Interesting to hear you say that. Well that was my initial approach to this. Then I started weighing effects and needing to purchase an amp regardless. That took me down the path of trying to build in some options which led me to moving towards purchasing a true pedal so could experiment with different types of amp models & amp effects, have some vocal options as well and bass and acoustic capabilities. Also have drums to take into consideration and that factored into this somehow.... but don't remember why that was right now. Then there is the band that comes over to the house to practice so that made a mixer make some sense to me. And there is the recording element as well.

So, bottom line is I've gone down this path for now and while there may come a time when this solution requires me to upgrade, I'm hopeful it will be a long time down the road. At this point I would be kind of concerned that as soon as I get the Mustang Micro and an amp (that will probably cost me as much as the FRFR) I'm going to be kicking myself for not just going ahead and pulling the trigger on spending a little more money overall and having a lot more options and capabilities.

All that being said, I absolutely hear you. And your post is a good check for me as far as whether it makes sense to continue down this path. I'm pretty committed but stranger things have happened than me backtracking and/ or taking an alternative path.

The Mustang Micro might not be powerful enough to drive the Fender Tone Master FR12 speaker effectively. It's designed for headphones. Consider a small practice amp instead, like a Fender Blues Jr. III or Champion. This would give you the option to play without headphones and still use the Mustang Micro for effects and recording. Look for amps with headphone jacks so you can still practice silently

Wouldn't be a deal breaker in and of itself but if I remember right getting a small amp that can handle both lead, acoustic and bass is ultimately going to cost more than the FRFR I'm looking at.

Loopers are recording devices that let you play a short phrase and then loop it over and over, allowing you to build layers of sound. It's not essential for beginners, but can be a fun tool for experimentation later.

Thanks for explaining. Starting to get a handle on this now.

For future reference, you can check Fender's website for firmware updates for the Mustang Micro.

Good to know that they provide updates.