Back then bands were bands....

[SteveGlitch]

Personally, I'd rather listen to a sloppy Page than most of the new stuff out there but I do understand your point of view SteveG

I feel that, and I prefer music of the 70's over everything else but it's strange when peeps don't want to agree with the progression of things.

Song writing wise? Um…nope. Most pop stuff now has no chord changes. I don’t listen to much modern stuff and what I have heard, I can always look back and find where they “got” it from

I'm not talking about Pop, I'm talking about any genre. We can't point out Pop of today and pit it against rock, metal, classical, etc of the yesteryear. But Pop today uses far more talent than Pop of the yesteryears. Amazing singers haven't gone extinct, they've only gotten better through the years.

I have no doubt that everything has it's roots but that's only because you've been alive long enough to have known someone that has played similar styles/techniques. Everyone has influences and everyone has got some inspiration from somewhere. If we pitted genre for genre and hit for hit, yeah, the stuff of now easily stacks up and isn't so copy-cat as people think

Sure kids have it made learning wise today, majority never go on to do anything with it. Kind of the way it always has been. There are very few outlets like there used to be, most don’t care anything about music. Was alot of fun growing up and playing in bands.

Oh they do, they make money from playing in their bedrooms and become a Tik-Tok/YouTube legend, there's nothing wrong with that. People of our generation hates that but they are recognized regardless, that's why Ibanez/Fender/Cort, etc gives them their own signature guitar and other gear.

People here keep pretending that these new guitarists aren't getting recognition, a fanbase or influencing many players of there own but this is definitely a golden age of guitar players all in it's own. People also keep pretending that most guitarists touring today use tube amps still, go figure!

Guitarists today are doing their own producing, will plug their guitar into am interface and go direct into a phone or laptop, the level of education is beyond anything we could have hope to achieve in our days.

Bare in mind, I'm not saying these facts to make any one mad, I'm just stating these facts as a record of what we have achieved and people should celebrate this and see it as victory instead of jealousy. It really does make me excited for the future, guess that makes me a clown

 

[VonBonfire]

I could give a shit about chops, show me the songs and the vocals.You wanna make the music you gotta sing the song. Where is the soul? Most of these punk kids don't believe in souls. New bands have shitty music and shitty mcsame vocal tones and it ain't just cause I'm not a kid. Sorry but the alternative stuff was the great decline in both instrumental ability, vocal ability, and songwriting talent. and I say that as someone who never really liked most hard rock or metal You can't phone in a request to the radio for your girl with something like smells like teen spirit. Maybe you could phone in Jeremy to your gay ass boyfriend. By the mid 90's most bands was pure shit save for maybe Pantera

 

[Skolphy]

Music of today is great...music of many years ago is great. As I've gotten grayer, I'm not so much concerned with the technical aspect of it....but growing up in the shred era, I can of course appreciate that. It really comes down to..does it entertain my brain? I can listen to Indian chants...Mozart..50's doo wop...Mamas and the Papas..Steely Dan...Dokken....AIC...Blink 182..Belinda Carlisle FFS!...It's all great and for me about the melody.

 

[SteveGlitch]

I could give a shit about chops, show me the songs and the vocals.You wanna make the music you gotta sing the song. Where is the soul? Most of these punk kids don't believe in souls. New bands have shitty music and shitty mcsame vocal tones and it ain't just cause I'm not a kid. Sorry but the alternative stuff was the great decline in both instrumental ability, vocal ability, and songwriting talent. and I say that as someone who never really liked most hard rock or metal You can't phone in a request to the radio for your girl with something like smells like teen spirit. Maybe you could phone in Jeremy to your gay ass boyfriend. By the mid 90's most bands was pure shit save for maybe Pantera

I called in the other day and had them play this song, dedicated to my wife:


My wife loved that alot more than Every Rose Has it's Thorn (Our prom song) or More Than Words - We love the 80's but some songs are better left behind... even if the melodies are catchy.

 

[DanTravis62]

I practicing in your bedroom with a smartphone and a Bluetooth practice amp than playing gigs with a real band. Professional musicians used to think tube amps were best and playing love shows was the best way to gain experience. Gone are those days!

Jesus christ dude, you're either an imbecile or a troll who's mommy didn't give them enough attention

"WOW GUYS CHECK OUT MY ZAAANY HOT TAKE"

I called in the other day and had them play this song, dedicated to my wife:


My wife loved that alot more than Every Rose Has it's Thorn (Our prom song) or More Than Words - We love the 80's but some songs are better left behind... even if the melodies are catchy.

This is fucking dumbest music i've ever heard in my life


We get it bro you have no fucking taste, you don't need to flog that horse any harder, I think it's dead

 

[SteveGlitch]

Jesus christ dude, you're either an imbecile or a troll who's mommy didn't give them enough attention

"WOW GUYS CHECK OUT MY ZAAANY HOT TAKE"




This is fucking dumbest music i've ever heard in my life


We get it bro you have no fucking taste, you don't need to flog that horse any harder, I think it's dead

I love how you insult me and then proceed with "We" and "bro". You must have spent time in the few wards in past years, am I right? Loose Canon "I need my medication before I blow up on you!" And "I speak for everyone, come on guys!"

This is the type of people I want to shield my children from.

Cool

 

[Racerxrated]

Song writing wise? Um…nope. Most pop stuff now has no chord changes. I don’t listen to much modern stuff and what I have heard, I can always look back and find where they “got” it from. I like fast intricate playing as much as anyone, but there has always been that around. Classical, jazz, bebop, country, 50’s rock…they all had players that could play their asses off. Listen to some Django sometime, he only had two fingers.

Sure kids have it made learning wise today, majority never go on to do anything with it. Kind of the way it always has been. There are very few outlets like there used to be, most don’t care anything about music. Was alot of fun growing up and playing in bands.

Well said. Back then, no Tab...just your ear and how many times you had to move the needle back on your turntable lol. That was the only way to do it...and, it really taught your 'ear' on pitch, harmony, melody...I also remember the cassette player that 'slowed' everything down lol...oh how I wanted that thing at 16 haha.
And yes, every high school had at least 2 bands that competed for the local dances, and then after graduation who could book a REAL gig at a club....ah the memories...

 

[VonBonfire]

I called in the other day and had them play this song, dedicated to my wife:


My wife loved that alot more than Every Rose Has it's Thorn (Our prom song) or More Than Words - We love the 80's but some songs are better left behind... even if the melodies are catchy.

That song was horrible, no offense. A bunch of garbage synth programmed stuff. Typical 90's-forward cliche girl vocals. Yuck. And a weird ass video too. You basically just reiterated everything I said sucks about modern music with one video.

 

[VonBonfire]

.I also remember the cassette player that 'slowed' everything down lol...oh how I wanted that thing at 16 haha.

I remember Ibanez had one of those offered in the early 90's. Like a walkman with a tape speed control. Man I wanted one of those but IIRC they were around $110 which might as well been a million bucks to a kid like me.

 

[SteveGlitch]

I remember Ibanez had one of those offered in the early 90's. Like a walkman with a tape speed control. Man I wanted one of those but IIRC they were around $110 which might as well been a million bucks to a kid like me.

Ironically, this is still how alot of kids learn today too, the difference is being the app of course, instead of the cassette tape, kids are learning everything from Van Halen to Petra by slowing youtube down. Having a smart amp really helps though, bringing new ideas and ways to learn. You can completely cut a guitar or bass part without having to go to a studio.

Also ironically, smart-amps tend to go for around $100-129. This is a nod to affordability of course! And can range from 5 watts to 15 watts of FR solid state power.

 

[DanTravis62]

I love how you insult me and then proceed with "We" and "bro". You must have spent time in the few wards in past years, am I right? Loose Canon "I need my medication before I blow up on you!" And "I speak for everyone, come on guys!"

This is the type of people I want to shield my children from.

Cool

Your taste in music is what I want to shield my children from, good christ. No wonder you think music and art have improved, you suffer from some combination of APD, auditory agnosia, and misophonia.

Since you're diagnosing mental health issues you should be familiar. Also look up histrionic personality disorder...

from Google: "their self-esteem depends on the approval of others and doesn't come from a true feeling of self-worth. They have an overwhelming desire to be noticed and often behave dramatically or inappropriately to get attention"

"Hey fellow old guys, everything that sucks ass and you hate because it sucks ass is actually really awesome. I know because being a dipshit contrarian is my entire personality. Everyone who disagrees is a big dumb because I'm a big smart. Do the young kids like me yet? Am I COOL YET? ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION TO ME YET? NEGATIVE ATTENTION IS OKAY I JUST WANT ATTENTION"

 

[VonBonfire]

Your taste in music is what I want to shield my children from, good christ. No wonder you think music and art have improved, you suffer from some combination of APD, auditory agnosia, and misophonia.

Since you're diagnosing mental health issues you should be familiar. Also look up histrionic personality disorder...

from Google: "their self-esteem depends on the approval of others and doesn't come from a true feeling of self-worth. They have an overwhelming desire to be noticed and often behave dramatically or inappropriately to get attention"

"Hey fellow old guys, everything that sucks ass and you hate because it sucks ass is actually really awesome. I know because being a dipshit contrarian is my entire personality. Everyone who disagrees is a big dumb because I'm a big smart. Do the young kids like me yet? Am I COOL YET? ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION TO ME YET? NEGATIVE ATTENTION IS OKAY I JUST WANT ATTENTION"

View attachment 332502

I wonder how the forum would feel if I said about 70 percent of everything created beyond the doo-wop era sucks ass?

 

[Yehuda]

Without getting too contentious, I’ll just say that I agree that technically, guitarists continue to evolve- just like every instrument- primarily based on information out there and more scientific approaches to practicing. Music wise, taste is subjective, so there’s no right or wrong answer , but I happen to be one of the few people on rig talk who primarily listen to music from the last 15 years. Any argument about music being better than other music is inherently subjective- as is any matter of taste. What I can say however, is that tons of young modern players can play the 80s and 90s metal that most people here like, whereas most of the guitar heroes of the 80s and 90s could not play the more modern stuff. Does that mean either are better players? Not especially- better at guitar is all subjective and not just who has the best technique.

One last point I’ll make though, is that much like how people here think the music of the last 15 years is not music, people once thought metal was not music, and before that that rock and blues were not music- in short- try to look at other newer genres as not your thing, rather than objectively worse, since taste is purely subjective.

 

[DanTravis62]

I wonder how the forum would feel if I said about 70 percent of everything created beyond the doo-wop era sucks ass?

I mean, I kind of agree, because most music in general sucks ass ... That's what makes the good music good.

It's a matter of proportion though. If it used to be 70%, it's probably 96% of music sucks dick now.

Pretending modern, anodyne, protools pablum with no emotion, no heart, and no talent is superior because you're measuring it by average technical skill or something, like the OP did, is fucking retarded though

Ah yes, all those amazing masterpieces coming out lately with our amazing technology! Man, it's really awesome that no one can make a career out of music without shilling products on your YouTube like a fucking sham wow advert is amazing! Best music timeline ever!

Jesus fucking Christ

 

[VonBonfire]

I mean, I kind of agree, because most music in general sucks ass ... That's what makes the good music good.

It's a matter of proportion though. If it used to be 70%, it's probably 96% of music sucks sick now.

I just really dislike it when people act like I can't make objective value judgments on music. The phony open mindedness is annoying and commonplace among musicians nowadays. No surprise most music sucks so bad now, no one can even openly state "hey that sucks" without catching heat. I know a blues rock guy who says "I dig Katy Perry" and actually tries to cover some of it. Does that make you more cutting edge or forward thinking? Sorry dude, that's shit music. Some music IS superior to other music and that cuts across genre, time periods, etc. If you can't make value judgments then you won't make anything worth a damn because what you are saying is anything is acceptable.

I have my favorite genres but I like good music, period. Rock, metal, rap, blues, soul, etc all have their legendary figures because their output was inherently better than other acts of the time. Vocals, songwriting, delivery, performance all come in way ahead in terms of importance over some stupid guitar chops. Then the idea that guitar chops has ANYTHING to do with making great music is a fallacy. Technique has no meaning to the average listener and it is the average listener who consumes the music. If it has no meaning to the average listener, why should it have meaning to me just cause I play guitar? Not that the average listener is musically wise but instrumental virtuosity has no real bearing on whether they will enjoy something or not. If the cake sucks the icing doesn't make it better.

I don't think you should be so hard on Stevie, he's a good guy and the thread is bringing good discussion, regardless of whether I disagree with him or not.

 

[Greazygeo]

I feel that, and I prefer music of the 70's over everything else but it's strange when peeps don't want to agree with the progression of things.

I'm not talking about Pop, I'm talking about any genre. We can't point out Pop of today and pit it against rock, metal, classical, etc of the yesteryear. But Pop today uses far more talent than Pop of the yesteryears. Amazing singers haven't gone extinct, they've only gotten better through the years.

I have no doubt that everything has it's roots but that's only because you've been alive long enough to have known someone that has played similar styles/techniques. Everyone has influences and everyone has got some inspiration from somewhere. If we pitted genre for genre and hit for hit, yeah, the stuff of now easily stacks up and isn't so copy-cat as people think

Oh they do, they make money from playing in their bedrooms and become a Tik-Tok/YouTube legend, there's nothing wrong with that. People of our generation hates that but they are recognized regardless, that's why Ibanez/Fender/Cort, etc gives them their own signature guitar and other gear.

People here keep pretending that these new guitarists aren't getting recognition, a fanbase or influencing many players of there own but this is definitely a golden age of guitar players all in it's own. People also keep pretending that most guitarists touring today use tube amps still, go figure!

Guitarists today are doing their own producing, will plug their guitar into am interface and go direct into a phone or laptop, the level of education is beyond anything we could have hope to achieve in our days.

Bare in mind, I'm not saying these facts to make any one mad, I'm just stating these facts as a record of what we have achieved and people should celebrate this and see it as victory instead of jealousy. It really does make me excited for the future, guess that makes me a clown

You said songwriting in your OP… modern popular songwriting has little to nothing to do with singers /artists. Most are written by songwriters then find a suitable “face” for it. Again, been that way forever.
Most popular songs of today have little to no chord changes. Compared to popular songs of say the 70’s. Go back and listen to some and tell me those songs are inferior to something today. Chord and key changes, tempo changes etc.
Sure you can go to some obscure math metal band and find something complicated that maybe three people have listened to…
Yes there may be youtube/ internet “stars”, but they are making very little income from it.
Not jealous in anyway, happy to have grown up when I did. Hopefully the current generation will feel the same when they look back.

 

[Greazygeo]

Well said. Back then, no Tab...just your ear and how many times you had to move the needle back on your turntable lol. That was the only way to do it...and, it really taught your 'ear' on pitch, harmony, melody...I also remember the cassette player that 'slowed' everything down lol...oh how I wanted that thing at 16 haha.
And yes, every high school had at least 2 bands that competed for the local dances, and then after graduation who could book a REAL gig at a club....ah the memories...

Yep, I had that Ibanez Rock and Play, still do even . I would use that, run it into my Zoom Rockman type thing and pitch shift it back up an octave. Made figuring stuff out alittle easier.

 

[mcstinger]

...This is a nod to affordability of course!...

Availability, affordability, exactly. This is why the world is full of garbage. Whether it's things or music.

 

[SteveGlitch]

You said songwriting in your OP… modern popular songwriting has little to nothing to do with singers /artists. Most are written by songwriters then find a suitable “face” for it. Again, been that way forever.
Most popular songs of today have little to no chord changes.

Yes, I did mention song-writing amongst other things and I haven't once backpedaled or went back on my opening statement. It's not true that songs have less chord changes than songs from the 70's. It's pretty silly statement. There complexity and technical aspect has evolved, not devolved. Of course you can factor in the bad, every era has its bad things, this generation's bad includes ai auto-tune and other things but let's not pretend that 60's, 70's and 80's didn't have their own things that "ruined" their own generation and made them inferior from the ones before (in whoevers mind).

Difference is that technology had evolved so much that everything is on command through a tiny device, that device is the smartphone. The smartphone can hook up to an amp, to a smart guitar, etc. Tools of today are doing WAYYYY more good than bad, regardless of how anyone here tries to spin that.

Compared to popular songs of say the 70’s. Go back and listen to some and tell me those songs are inferior to something today. Chord and key changes, tempo changes etc.

I think I may be older than you. I'm going to guess by a few years but still.

Sure you can go to some obscure math metal band and find something complicated that maybe three people have listened to…
Yes there may be youtube/ internet “stars”, but they are making very little income from it.
Not jealous in anyway, happy to have grown up when I did.

I don't believe this is true. More people have heard of Tim Henson (who has only been an internet star for what? 5 years?), than Steve Vai who has been playing for 40+ years at huge shows, played with many of the greats bands, etc. Tim's guitars are also outselling Vai's. Tim Henson isn't a household name and neither is Vai but the fact that more people know Tim exists speaks volumes as Vai is considered one of the most solidified 80's guitar legends... in fact that was Tim's legend! What a story. And he's just getting started in the industry.

But anyway, these new bands play on social media and bring more than enough to live on comfortably. It's no secret, hell, even kids who play video games can conjur enough followers/subscribers to become rich off of. The way heroes are made has become far different, people may not like it because they don't understand, that'd pretty typical. Still, doesn't mean that the skill level has evolved. Kids have become amazing and can play the most complicated 70's and 80's songs with ease. Nuno Betancourt touched a bit on it, many guitarists have.

Radio plays and top charts are gone, iTunes and online music stores is on it's way out. We're in the age of followers and financial support is not only rendered by those numbers but by pledges and subscribers at will. So outreach is done differently than in the 70's or 80's. I won't be foolish enough to believe that anyone here will think that modern bands are lesser due to virtual concerts when everyone here would pay for a concert during the pandemic. Just being real here.

Hopefully the current generation will feel the same when they look back.

I am pretty sure they will, 60's, 70's and 80's had equally bad music as today. We are not being honest enough to account for that, it's human nature for anyone to feel like their time is greatest and look past the flaws.

Sadly, it's also human nature to pick on the person who points that out as well lol I don't think you give off any jealous vibes but I do feel there is some bias. I am not from this generation so I really have nothing to gain for "defending" this generation's music, however, it's kinda silly to see the projections and assumptions pre-iterated and derived from sheer opinion and bias-clouding judgement.

 

[VonBonfire]

It's not true that songs have less chord changes than songs from the 70's. It's pretty silly statement.

Maybe music as a whole doesn't fit that description but I think for the billboard top 40 it's true that the number of chord changes has gotten smaller and smaller on hit records since then. I've seen this discussed at other forums in the past. A lot of more recent rap lacks any chords or melody at all it's just studio noises and some pilled out kid mumbling in a mic for six months before they overdose.

t's human nature for anyone to feel like their time is greatest and look past the flaws.

I must not be human cause I hated most of what came out in "my generation" (yuck) aka alternative during my time in high school. "But yellow ledbetter is hendrixy". Yeah, so I guess I'll go listen to Hendix and drop the "y", lol.