Best amp at each category

[braintheory]

I think people who pay that much for an amp, aren't going to come out the gate saying how bad it sucks.

I think they sound good. But they just have too much highs and next to a jvm it sounds weak.

The MTL though, I like that one.

Edit: I will add, maybe it's just how the guys have been dialing them. Under my fingers and dialing it might be totally pleasing to me. Just haven't heard that at all in a demo of it...

It may not be your cup of tea. It is bright by default, but can be tweaked for lots of different sounds. I had a MTL and MC before and find this to be light years better and can do everything I liked about those 2 amps and more

If anything, it’s hard for me not to find an amp that doesn’t make a jvm sound comparatively weak. That amp is really compressed and synthetic sounding. It basically just sounds like hearing a compressed recording of a Marshall (but in person) with more gain. Imho not a good amp at all. When AB’ed IME vs a jcm800 and other good model Marshall’s the jvm sounds like a toy in comparison

 

[braintheory]

Those prices are absolutely criminal. Its honestly weird and cultish. Which is why the owners are VERY polarized to the amps. The more you invest, the more you believe in what you invested in... it's science... it's always been this way. I found myself doing it with the Diezel because to me that's alot of cash. So I'm going to REALLY want to believe it sounds $4k good since all the othe badass amps I've had were 1200-2000ish average depending on the deals at the time. (Pre inflation covid gimmick, mind you)

But you can't tell me buying a $6,000 amp isn't going to create some type of bias. It's definitely going to make you feel like you're the guy at the party with the Ferrari when everyone else driving the gt500.

It's literally unavoidable when you become one of the "elites". Yes, I'm jealous I can't hang out on the yacht with the wizard owners. But that's the whole point. By pricing them that way, it allowed itself to create the mystique... and cult like followings.

I'm definitely still going to get an MTL clone at some point. But that he'll razor is too ear fatiguing how these guys dial that amp.

I’ve sold plenty of gear worth more than the Hell Razor (ccv being one of many examples), some of which I owned just briefly because I knew they weren’t keeper worthy. It’s just a great amp. Whether it’s worth the price or not is for the individual to decide. I will say though almost all the other amps I’ve enjoyed so far similarly well aren’t any cheaper these days (Mark IIC+, Rev C Recto, Hermansson, Blueface). If you want a darker or thicker type of amp than it probably won’t be for you. Even though it can get there, other amps imo are better for that than Wizards. It’s real forte imo is hard hitting punch, clarity/defintion, and openness. No other amp IME punches like it in person

 

[ChuggNorris]

It may not be your cup of tea. It is bright by default, but can be tweaked for lots of different sounds. I had a MTL and MC before and find this to be light years better and can do everything I liked about those 2 amps and more

If anything, it’s hard for me not to find an amp that doesn’t make a jvm sound comparatively weak. That amp is really compressed and synthetic sounding. It basically just sounds like hearing a compressed recording of a Marshall (but in person) with more gain. Imho not a good amp at all. When AB’ed IME vs a jcm800 and other good model Marshall’s the jvm sounds like a toy in comparison

Could be the way you dial your tones and the way you play man.

I typically use less gain to be more heavy. So that's how it works for my technique etc etc. Also more Treble is perceived as more gain, why all these new "super Uber aggressive" designs have ample amounts of both these things. Lol

Also, I respect your views. Its all good. But if you heard that from a jvm, then you dialed it wrong..as many in the past have...

 

[braintheory]

Could be the way you dial your tones and the way you play man.

I typically use less gain to be more heavy. So that's how it works for my technique etc etc. Also more Treble is perceived as more gain, why all these new "super Uber aggressive" designs have ample amounts of both these things. Lol

Also, I respect your views. It’s all good. But if you heard that from a jvm, then you dialed it wrong..as many in the past have...

I don’t know, I’ve had other friends play through it and dial it in however they wanted and it didn’t change anything about my perception of the amp. I recall your Herbert clips having plenty of gain, but they sounded good either way. If you’re coming for a Herbert, the MTL and MC models are aren’t as high gain, compressed or saturated

No, I’ve tried all the version JVM’s including the Satriani model, which it remember slightly preferring. Especially with lower gain settings it further exposed to me the artificial nature of the amp and many unmusical qualities about it, especially in the higher register. You gotta IME play it side by side next to other quality amps and I think you’ll see where I’m coming from

I usually tend to prefer amps that I perceive as more organic or raw sounding, which is very much how Wizards are. Some guys may not care for that. I like the Herbert’s too, but they are also amps I’d consider on the other end of the spectrum in that regard, but not as much so as JVM’s or most Engl’s

 

[demondestroyer]

I just want it to sound like " Far Beyond Driven" other than that, dont care.

 

[Smash]

Those prices are absolutely criminal. Its honestly weird and cultish. Which is why the owners are VERY polarized to the amps. The more you invest, the more you believe in what you invested in... it's science... it's always been this way. I found myself doing it with the Diezel because to me that's alot of cash. So I'm going to REALLY want to believe it sounds $4k good since all the othe badass amps I've had were 1200-2000ish average depending on the deals at the time. (Pre inflation covid gimmick, mind you)

But you can't tell me buying a $6,000 amp isn't going to create some type of bias. It's definitely going to make you feel like you're the guy at the party with the Ferrari when everyone else driving the gt500.

It's literally unavoidable when you become one of the "elites". Yes, I'm jealous I can't hang out on the yacht with the wizard owners. But that's the whole point. By pricing them that way, it allowed itself to create the mystique... and cult like followings.

I'm definitely still going to get an MTL clone at some point. But that he'll razor is too ear fatiguing how these guys dial that amp.

I disagree. Some of us dont care how much an amp costs. It is more how it plays, feels, sounds, and build quality. I had a wizard and loved it. Now i don't have a wizard and still love them. They are great amps, but.there are other great amps. Especially right now. This is a good time to be a gear whore.

 

[ChuggNorris]

I disagree. Some of us dont care how much an amp costs. It is more how it plays, feels, sounds, and build quality. I had a wizard and loved it. Now i don't have a wizard and still love them. They are great amps, but.there are other great amps. Especially right now. This is a good time to be a gear whore.

It's the worst time to be a gear whore. I did most my whoring before covid inflation gimmick set in. Before that, was the best time.

Now it's saturated with literally the same circuits it was then only more ear fatiguing because all the noobs keep yelling "make it more aggressive and harsh". So they do. And here we are.

And still, yeah way too expensive for a head. I get it, I've had over 20 nice high gainers and thats enough to know some things. But I have other shit in life and responsibilities, like teenage kids and a failed economy now. Not the best time.

The price of wizards is literally for a different class of person financially.... nobody buys one of those things and is worried about paying their rent. Wizards are priced for single dudes with big aspirations and credit, married men with a paid for mortgages, or a mix of any of those... you won't catch a wizard in a single wide trailer and I have NEVER seen any working class musician use one live, nor have I seen one in person.

By all means, prove me wrong. They are overpriced and there's better options for half the cost (all views are my own opinion of course). But the price is what sets the stage for all it's cult following.. you can disagree but deep down you know it's phycology 101 breh breh

 

[rsm]

I revamped my tube amps over the last 2-3 years; it wasn't my goal. I got an inexpensive Marshall Origin 50C, and it sounds great from JTM/45 to Plexi IMO; I then decided to get the Origin 50H for a full stack; that was great too, so I then moved to get the JVM410H, which finally led me to a new 1959HW.

My high gain rig for around 10+ years was my Engl E530, E850/100 and a pair of Pro horizontal 2x12. Decided to sell the E530, and I got an E561 Artist Edition 100; decided to keep the E850/100.

I decided I wanted a Mesa, I still have my old TriAxis with Phat Mod around here somewhere. It was between the JP-2C and Mark VII, in the end the two EQ, sound, and channels, I decided on a JP-2C, and run it into a Mesa compact 2x12 cab, and use my HX-Effects in 4CM with it.

I decided I needed a good Fender, and found a '76 Fender Super Twin that UPS managed to damage (broke the frame on the right side, so the top of the side panel is split away from the top, front and rear) - I have replacement tubes, but haven't gotten around to it yet, may need a recap job, but the seller said it was working fine and the also gave me a partial refund (it was actually from GC, and it was packed very well; UPS had to drop it from a significant height for this damage IMO)

Finally, I wanted a Vox, and AC-100 MkII to be exact; these are tough to find, and get parts, and many still need to have the speaker connections and power cables updated, basically another repair nightmare. Not finding any amp builders making clones of this circuit, closest was a model from Dr. Z at over $3K, based on an earlier 80w Vox AC-100 design...so I contacted Ceriatone and had them build one for me from the AC-100 MkII schematic, it was completed yesterday and shipped today.

At this point, not really looking for another tube amp, as I have covered everything I need and want, sound and tone wise, with the above amps.

Trying to get all my toys now before I retire early in the next 2-3 years!

 

[Smash]

It's the worst time to be a gear whore. I did most my whoring before covid inflation gimmick set in. Before that, was the best time.

Now it's saturated with literally the same circuits it was then only more ear fatiguing because all the noobs keep yelling "make it more aggressive and harsh". So they do. And here we are.

And still, yeah way too expensive for a head. I get it, I've had over 20 nice high gainers and thats enough to know some things. But I have other shit in life and responsibilities, like teenage kids and a failed economy now. Not the best time.

The price of wizards is literally for a different class of person financially.... nobody buys one of those things and is worried about paying their rent. Wizards are priced for single dudes with big aspirations and credit, married men with a paid for mortgages, or a mix of any of those... you won't catch a wizard in a single wide trailer and I have NEVER seen any working class musician use one live, nor have I seen one in person.

By all means, prove me wrong. They are overpriced and there's better options for half the cost (all views are my own opinion of course). But the price is what sets the stage for all it's cult following.. you can disagree but deep down you know it's phycology 101 breh breh

Yeah. If i were gigging, i would use a kemper or a jcm 900 all day. But shit gets stolen at gigs. A wizard is not different from other amps in that it is a fun amp to play. I like to keep amps in the "bedroom"

There are cult followings of many brands. I like wizards, but by no means think they are better than all the other top end amps out there.

If you dont have enough money for one, or dont want to put one in a singlewide, then there are a million great amps out there. Just dont play a bargain amp in same room as some of the top amps out there, and you have nothing to compare it to. It will sound awesome

I guess my point is i dont understand hating wizards. If you dont want one or think they are overpriced dont get one. I dont know any cult wizard guys. Everyone i know that have them have other high gain amps too. Most of us that have or had wizards had them for fun. Not that serious

 

[jabps]

No, I’ve tried all the version JVM’s including the Satriani model, which it remember slightly preferring. Especially with lower gain settings it further exposed to me the artificial nature of the amp and many unmusical qualities about it, especially in the higher register. You gotta IME play it side by side next to other quality amps and I think you’ll see where I’m coming from

Again with all these threads it's subjective to what you like. A blanket statement of "playing it side by side you'll see, or artificial, unmusical", that's your opinion.

I've played the JVM side by side with alot stuff from Diezel to Fryette to Mezzabarba to Bogner and other high dollar amps and to me there is nothing artificial or unmusical about it. In my opinion. I don't own those other amps anymore because I prefer the JVM and have since the amp was released. However I would never say it's the best, just the best for me; for now.

It's why I have always said on threads like this, forgot what anyone says, forget opinions, by all means don't base anything off a video - play it for yourself.

 

[cobrahead1030]

I like a simple amp I can plug right into, and play any rock/metal gig with a tone that'll make me happy.

I think the OG Deliverance does that as well as anything else out there.

 

[jbru91]

I’ve sold plenty of gear worth more than the Hell Razor (ccv being one of many examples), some of which I owned just briefly because I knew they weren’t keeper worthy. It’s just a great amp. Whether it’s worth the price or not is for the individual to decide. I will say though almost all the other amps I’ve enjoyed so far similarly well aren’t any cheaper these days (Mark IIC+, Rev C Recto, Hermansson, Blueface). If you want a darker or thicker type of amp than it probably won’t be for you. Even though it can get there, other amps imo are better for that than Wizards. It’s real forte imo is hard hitting punch, clarity/defintion, and openness. No other amp IME punches like it in person

I haven't heard much on the Hell Razor in terms of rhythm vs lead / soloing applications. Does it shine in one area or the other? For lead playing, how does it handle effects (some delay or reverb etc.). My mind inherently goes back to the 80's for my favourite lead tones but i'm guessing something more saturated is likely better for that. Curious to hear your thoughts.

 

[angelspade]

Did you just say a Hell Razor sounds week next to a JVM ?

Yeah...I just can't tell if he's being serious or not.

 

[Bram576]

Yeah...I just can't tell if he's being serious or not.

Oh, he definitely is.

 

[Techdeth]

Oh, he definitely is.

I’ve had both and man I was so disappointed in my JVM . It just doesn’t open up like a regular tube Marshall. Too compressed . Good quiet though but no hell razor . And I know you know this

 

[Bxlxaxkxe]

I’ve had both and man I was so disappointed in my JVM . It just doesn’t open up like a regular tube Marshall. Too compressed . Good quiet though but no hell razor . And I know you know this

Not to jump on the JVM bashing - it’s a fun amp but it just has way too much going on. If they could maintain the voicings they chose but significantly simplify the layout - I’m sure the tone could improve.

Don’t understand why Marshall hasn’t done a simple, high quality, high gain head yet. Baffling really.

 

[Yehuda]

Those prices are absolutely criminal. Its honestly weird and cultish. Which is why the owners are VERY polarized to the amps. The more you invest, the more you believe in what you invested in... it's science... it's always been this way. I found myself doing it with the Diezel because to me that's alot of cash. So I'm going to REALLY want to believe it sounds $4k good since all the othe badass amps I've had were 1200-2000ish average depending on the deals at the time. (Pre inflation covid gimmick, mind you)

But you can't tell me buying a $6,000 amp isn't going to create some type of bias. It's definitely going to make you feel like you're the guy at the party with the Ferrari when everyone else driving the gt500.

It's literally unavoidable when you become one of the "elites". Yes, I'm jealous I can't hang out on the yacht with the wizard owners. But that's the whole point. By pricing them that way, it allowed itself to create the mystique... and cult like followings.

I'm definitely still going to get an MTL clone at some point. But that he'll razor is too ear fatiguing how these guys dial that amp.

I would never tell anyone that the point of diminishing returns doesn’t kick in pretty quickly- I do genuinely thing my wizard is a better amp than my other ones-whether it’s worth the cost is a separate question. Have you played a wizard? I have found that clips- including my own- don’t show what makes them special in the room

 

[Smash]

I like a simple amp I can plug right into, and play any rock/metal gig with a tone that'll make me happy.

I think the OG Deliverance does that as well as anything else out there.

I think this is 100% the disconnect. You can go get a 5150 or XXX or whatever and go gig. Most guys gigging are about the music. The amp is a tool.

The bedroom guitarist "nerd" is all about tone. It isnt that a bargain amp tone wont work. But it isn't best. And best tone/feel/fill in the blank is what we search for.

 

[Techdeth]

Not to jump on the JVM bashing - it’s a fun amp but it just has way too much going on. If they could maintain the voicings they chose but significantly simplify the layout - I’m sure the tone could improve.

Don’t understand why Marshall hasn’t done a simple, high quality, high gain head yet. Baffling really.

It sounds good quiet . The not opening up at all killed it

 

[braintheory]

I haven't heard much on the Hell Razor in terms of rhythm vs lead / soloing applications. Does it shine in one area or the other? For lead playing, how does it handle effects (some delay or reverb etc.). My mind inherently goes back to the 80's for my favourite lead tones but i'm guessing something more saturated is likely better for that. Curious to hear your thoughts.

That’s an interesting question. I don’t use effects other than very occasionally some reverb or delay on cleans, so I can’t help there. For leads it can be quite good too, but I honestly in a perfect world wouldn’t choose it for leads over some of my other amps like the iic+, Rev C, Rev 1 Uber, SLO, or Hermansson. If you want an ‘80’s type of lead tone it probably won’t be for you. Those other amps I mentioned (other than the Hermansson) would be more my choices for that plus the Purpleface and the right modded Marshall’s. I mostly like it for stuff involving palm mutes and chords. It might have the most impressive chordal clarity I’ve heard in a high gain amp so far. It has for a high gain amp very good cleans too. It can do a lot of things well, but I guess more rhythmical type stuff is where it’s a 10/10 amp for me