Best amp at each category

[braintheory]

It's up to us to fill in the gaps based on what we've learned. It's the whole reson demos are even a thing, of any type. Like take the dravon dude... horrible tone. Obviously, I can also tell the amps are being dialed that way.. so I don't have a whole judgment based on anything like that.

However some attributes are what they are. And the hell razor is a more expensive Uber ultra. Except the ultra sounds better to me. Every clip conveys the same clank I dislike in the core tone. Period... you can tell if it's dialed shitty or not after a few examples of the same amp. Man I get the feel thing trust me, I do... but the sound is there. Obviously.

Honestly seems like alot of you guys just put the highs and precense on TEN and then boost it because it "feels good" and you want it easier to play, while sacrificing dynamics FOR SURE. Been down that rabbit hole too, it's confirmed. To me anyway.

Upper mids? No dude.... you guys are leaving mids behind and becoming clarinet players with strings. Its so funny. "Agressive aggressive"

Hell yeah.

The Uber Ultra and Hell Razor are very different flavors. Maybe the UU is just more your cup of tea. It’s a fatter amp with strong low mid presence that the Hell Razor doesn’t get the same way. Coming from the Herbert I can see it being more up your alley

And pretty much anyone who’s tried a Wizard can tell you that while they do feel good to play, they are some of the more unforgiving amps that can expose more than other amps technical issues in one’s playing and actually are hands down the most dynamic, uncompressed high gain amps I’ve tried so far. And I don’t use boosts with them either. If anything, they kind of are the epitome of what I’ve tried of an amp where you need to be an aggressive player to get the most out of them. I actually find the Herbert’s IME to be more homogenous, compressed amps that don’t let as many expressive nuances in playing to come through. I still like those amps, but to me they have lots of limitations in what I like in an amp. YMMV

 

[ChuggNorris]

A Recto is apparently also the “same” as an SLO (on paper) yet somehow they sound nothing alike (I have and enjoy both). I had a very good example 1987 Jubilee not long ago and AB’ed with a Wizard guess what it sounded nothing like it. A lot of guys make this mistake of judging what’s on paper rather than listening to how it actually sounds. And in most respects I felt it smoked the jubilee, certainly at least in terms of punch, power and clarity

Anyway, this isn’t meant to be a pissing match or argument. More so just informative in that the clips don’t at all give the whole story. I wouldn’t want one either based on many of them. You still may not like the amp in person, but if you tried it you’d know. That’s up to you. Anyway, that’s all I’ve got. I understand though if a brighter sound isn’t your cup of tea it’s probably not worth the gamble buying one

If this were about any other amp I like from in person experience I’d tell you the same thing be it an early Recto, Mark IIC+, Hermansson, early Uber, etc. Good is good

I'd hope a amp that expensive wouldn't sound the same. I'm thinking the original design came.from a Jubilee. And has been modified for very super aggressive tone over time more and more. And you have the latest rendition of this "aggressive evolution" some would call it, in the hell razor. Its very obvious that's what it is. And that's a big hit for alot of guys. It's instant satisfaction and feels more spongey under the fingers, I know the feeling and yes, it feels fun. I used to dial a mkIV in for that super aggressive bite for fun and do the lamb of God grind. To me, I'd take a mkiv over a hell razor because I can deduct I like it's character better even though I'd be wiling to bet they feel similar... easy to play amps.

Polar opposite of a vht or dry diezel.

I get why you guys like it.
I just don't like it's particular tones man.
It's really just all there is to it... I'd take many amps before it without a doubt unless one stumbled into my lap after it fell from the round table of elite knights who wield it.

 

[angelspade]

Seems like I'm one of the only ones not boosting everything by default also. But that's okay.

You and me both, I have owned exactly one boost pedal in the entire time that I been playing and I have only used it with one amp...And rarely so. That said, I have nothing against the practice of boosting amps. It can be fun and adds a nice character to moderately gained tones.

 

[braintheory]

I'd hope a amp that expensive wouldn't sound the same. I'm thinking the original design came.from a Jubilee. And has been modified for very super aggressive tone over time more and more. And you have the latest rendition of this "aggressive evolution" some would call it, in the hell razor. Its very obvious that's what it is. And that's a big hit for alot of guys. It's instant satisfaction and feels more spongey under the fingers, I know the feeling and yes, it feels fun. I used to dial a mkIV in for that super aggressive bite for fun and do the lamb of God grind. To me, I'd take a mkiv over a hell razor because I can deduct I like it's character better even though I'd be wiling to bet they feel similar... easy to play amps.

Polar opposite of a vht or dry diezel.

I get why you guys like it.
I just don't like it's particular tones man.
It's really just all there is to it... I'd take many amps before it without a doubt unless one stumbled into my lap after it fell from the round table of elite knights who wield it.

Yeah that’s all good. I like the marks amps a lot too including the mark iv, but I can tell you wizards are the exact opposite of a spongey feel or how any marks feel (I love mark’s feel as well though). If anything their feel actually is much closer to a vht than those amps (still different though). The Hell Razor especially has a very immediate and rock solid feel and is unforgiving, harder to hide behind

 

[ChuggNorris]

Yes...It may smoke a Jubilee, BUT can it hang with a JVM??? Apparently it sounds "weak" by comparison (as we learned earlier in this very thread). On a side note, it's interesting (and perhaps mildly ironic) that one would remark that the Wizard HR is overly bright and "ear fatiguing" while favoring the the tone of the Marshall JVM series. I really like the JVM I owned and will probably buy another at some point...That said, I think the majority of us can agree that it is one of the all time most overly-bright (both treble and upper mids) voiced amps in the high gain spectrum.

Well probably, since everyone who likes the hell razor can't play without the Treble and precense being the dominant frequency. Yeah I'd imagine you made the jvm sound harsh and ass.

I remember people used to bash the FUCK out of the SLX. "No bass, flubby, needs a boost". I got one and it's one of the absolute most brutal marshall tones I've ever heard. Now people kinda waking up to that amp.

So you say a jvm was harsh? There was something else happening there. You realize on a marshall the mid knob is the tone knob right? The Treble is there for looks... you can turn it way the fuck down and have plenty of mid grind in a marshall.

Aka, ya doing it wrong like so many other who dial with their eyes and not their ears. Probably ran a boost too I bet

 

[thegame]

With christ all things are possible.

Except for owning a Wizard apparently.

 

[ChuggNorris]

You and me both, I have owned exactly one boost pedal in the entire time that I been playing and I have only used it with one amp...And rarely so. That said, I have nothing against the practice of boosting amps. It can be fun and adds a nice character to moderately gained tones.

I tried alot of boosts in the rectifier days... ended up liking then without it better. Had no issue getting a rectifier to sound tight. Literally turn the bass almost off, turn the amp UP, Gain little LESS, tailor the mids and highs and that's it. No more flub. It sounded tight as fuck under my hands.

Tried the ts9, modded it, grid slammer, badmonkey, maxon 808, the big koko boost (id say this was probably the one I would have kept) but everytime I clicked them off, I picked up something in the picking dynamics that the boost covered no matter what it seemed like. It always smeared SOMETHING in the mids for me. Always used as clean boost.

So eventually sold them all and stand by the fact you don't need one. You want one? Cool. But the dudes doing demos or reviews saying "this amp HAS TO HAVE A BOOST to sound good" they make me giggle... and they ARE the majority unfortunately. Misleading so many amateur musicians while they do it. Not cool.

 

[ChuggNorris]

Except for owning a Wizard apparently.

Maybe I didnt find christ yet.
Is that who builds the wizards??

 

[angelspade]

Well probably, since everyone who likes the hell razor can't play without the Treble and precense being the dominant frequency. Yeah I'd imagine you made the jvm sound harsh and ass.

I remember people used to bash the FUCK out of the SLX. "No bass, flubby, needs a boost". I got one and it's one of the absolute most brutal marshall tones I've ever heard. Now people kinda waking up to that amp.

So you say a jvm was harsh? There was something else happening there. You realize on a marshall the mid knob is the tone knob right? The Treble is there for looks... you can turn it way the fuck down and have plenty of mid grind in a marshall.

Aka, ya doing it wrong like so many other who dial with their eyes and not their ears. Probably ran a boost too I bet

Yeah, must have been user error (by literally everyone) and not the inherent voicing that we all are hearing. I appreciate the feedback, but the amp is voiced extremely bright and spikey even by Marshall standards. If you get bored sometime maybe watch the Tone-Talk episode with Santiago Alvarez (the engineer that designed the JVM). Perhaps pay attention to the part where he and Dave Friedman discuss the JVM being extremely bright in the high-top frequencies and probably a bit noisy and over gained. Probably user error on Santiago's part as well. Any additional pointers on how to dial in our amps here would be widely accepted I'm sure, were doing the best we can.

 

[ChuggNorris]

Yeah, must have been user error (by literally everyone) and not the inherent voicing that we all are hearing. I appreciate the feedback, but the amp is voiced extremely bright and spikey even by Marshall standards. If you get bored sometime maybe watch the Tone-Talk episode with Santiago Alvarez (the engineer that designed the JVM). Perhaps pay attention to the part where he and Dave Friedman discuss the JVM being extremely bright in the high-top frequencies and probably a bit noisy and over gained. Probably user error on Santiago's part as well. Any additional pointers on how to dial in our amps here would be widely accepted I'm sure, were doing the best we can.

Treble and precense knobs.

They spin BOTH directions.
I know, insane concept.

Just take a breath... and try it.
You can do it. I believe in you.

🎛🎛

 

[ChuggNorris]

The only similarity I heard with my Hell Razor was that both were punchy and powerful, but otherwise almost polar opposite for me. The Hell Razor, especially for a non-vintage amp, impressed me with how raw and organic it sounds, open, the note connection actually isn’t bad, and there’s lightyears more detail and clarity to the notes I found when compared. The eq curves were quite different too. No Wizard IME, even the MTL, gets that same huge low mid thickness like the Uber’s. Again, just my honest opinion, but my Hell Razor made the Ultra comparatively sound blurry, undefined and almost like it was underwater

That's the piercing frequencies totally crippling your ability to discern good mids at that point..I'd imagine the upper frequencies fry the ears pretty good..then you hop on a thick amp and it starts playing tricks on you. It happens bro.

That's also why you should never tweak an amp after playing at any volume. Especially if it's a bright amp. It definitely changes how you hear shit in real time. Its science

 

[Techdeth]

Wizard is a cult for sure. But there's also the other cults. There's a 6505 cult... a slo-cult, a boost cult, a diezel cult. Some worse than others. It like the Ford vs Chevy thing that never makes any sense but they are polarized so much they honestly can't help how they view it at that point,.it's almost instinct then.. lol

My house is an old 50s shit. I was just saying you won't see a dude in a single wide posting up a wizard vid. If you find one let me know because its ironic and I'll find it highly entertaining.

And dude I didn't mean to sound like I can never afford an amp, I've had enough. Plenty of rectifiers, triple crown, marks, all 6505/5150, 3 Marshall's (dsl x 2 & SlX)... randall satan, 2 engl savages, peters chimera, vht d120... archon 100... Cobra.. etc etc..

Blah blah, the list goes on bro.
I just do not hear anything near the price on any of the Wizard demos that make me think it's 3x better than any of the amps I've enjoyed before. So even if I could easily afford one, it would be a headfirst clone... because its ass rape of the highest level charging what they do for an amp. Sure some will pay it, and at the end of the day, there's enough small group that allows them to maintain the prices. They are absolutely not worth the price in any technical form whatsoever. But how else would Wizard stand above most modded marshall circuits and create a cult mystique??

It's as much a business stratgy as it is anything. And it works. I'm not hating on wizards, or the owners. I'm just stating some pretty common facts about the topography of how that works physiologically because it DOES.

Some also spend 5,000 for a roll cage for their 30k polaris atv... that's a dude who id go "he must play a Wizard"

I

There is only one flaw in what you are saying. And I dont mean to pick on you, because so many do this shit. But dude, come to the next amp fest and PLAY a wizard. And a bogner uber ultra, and hellion, etc.

Then shit on them or dont. But dont tell us what you know about an amp based on fucking clips.

I don’t trust clips anyway lol

 

[ChuggNorris]

I
I don’t trust clips anyway lol

Ill never fully trust them.
Some people can't dial an amp to save their life before throwing pedals and gain at it.

At least try, shit.

I cant believe people get this offended for not liking a tone it's so refreshing seeing how far human intelligence has come the last few years.

 

[Techdeth]

I'd hope a amp that expensive wouldn't sound the same. I'm thinking the original design came.from a Jubilee. And has been modified for very super aggressive tone over time more and more. And you have the latest rendition of this "aggressive evolution" some would call it, in the hell razor. Its very obvious that's what it is. And that's a big hit for alot of guys. It's instant satisfaction and feels more spongey under the fingers, I know the feeling and yes, it feels fun. I used to dial a mkIV in for that super aggressive bite for fun and do the lamb of God grind. To me, I'd take a mkiv over a hell razor because I can deduct I like it's character better even though I'd be wiling to bet they feel similar... easy to play amps.

Polar opposite of a vht or dry diezel.

I get why you guys like it.
I just don't like it's particular tones man.
It's really just all there is to it... I'd take many amps before it without a doubt unless one stumbled into my lap after it fell from the round table of elite knights who wield it.

Hell razor is a top tier amp period .

 

[angelspade]

Hell razor is a top tier amp period .

You clearly have never played a JVM.

 

[DeathbyButterslax]

Everyone has certain things that make an amp a "keeper" or just another amp to trade/sell. Reading posts on here, I find some guys put high priority on specific tonal traits/requirements and some guys put more priority on response/feel.

I am firmly in the response/feel camp. I find I can make a Friedman, Bogner, Marshall....whatever....sound good to my ears. I don't get caught on things like,"Oh....this amp lacks a smidgen of upper mid complexity...or harmonic swirl..." lol! You give me a Hughes and kettner triamp, or a JCM 2000 or whatever and I can find tones I like on it.

That said: I am a picky bitch when it comes to feel/response. I prefer an amp to be relatively tight, punchy, immediate, open and have a bounce, but not too much sag. Wizard and Fryette check these boxes for me, as do some older amps. Old 4 hole Marshall's, late 70's/early 80's 2203's and 2204's and Hiwatts really have a feel I love as well. These are often called "unforgiving", but the lack of excess gain, saturation and weird frequencies (like clanky mids in many modern amps) mean nothing gets in the way of your playing.

That’s how I feel as well

I’d honestly even be cool with that plasticy ENGL sound if they didn’t feel so shit under the fingers.

 

[Techdeth]

You clearly have never played a JVM.

I see what you did there
Lol

 

[ChuggNorris]

You clearly have never played a JVM.

Why are you acting like a Joe Biden affiliate? You wanna be extra, that's cool. It's literally called the hell "RAZOR" and you're trying to downplay the fact it's harsh as fuck.

Typical wizard owner.shit.

 

[thegame]

Treble and precense knobs.

They spin BOTH directions.
I know, insane concept.

Just take a breath... and try it.
You can do it. I believe in you.

🎛🎛

Treble is a passive control on 99% of amps, genius. Therefore capable of going in only one direction (cutting frequencies).

 

[ChuggNorris]

Treble is a passive control on 99% of amps, genius. Therefore capable of going in only one direction (cutting frequencies).

Hey idiot, I said the KNOB goes both ways. Not the frequency... jesus stop letting the wizard teabag you long enough maybe you could catch the DETAILS.