acceptance
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Dan Gleesak
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I was thinking about this on the shitter today so allow me to vomit out some thoughts.
I think there is room for both science and religion. IMO you can’t disprove God any more so than you can prove him. Even if someone cracked the code on the Big Bang… then what. There is nothing to say God didn’t create that too.
And if God created us to be smart enough to figure this kind of stuff out, then there is some validity to it. Personally I think trying to disprove God with science is lame, so I can see some finding evil implications behind it.
But I think that science began just because people want to know how stuff works, and it started out of necessity. The “science” has always existed. Fire existed before man figured out how to make it. And science made it easier and more convenient for man to have once he figured it out.
I think a lot of people lump in theoretical sciences with proven sciences. And I know it’s confusing because theoretical science is something that hasn’t fully been proven, but a scientific theory is something that has been proven.
Anyways, something like the start of the universe is theoretical. The formation of our planet is theoretical. But we can for real look out and see stuff all over the universe. I’ve done it myself. We can watch other planets form and die and compare them to our own to see why ours is working out.
It’s funny that people get all derpy with “science is just about pushing an agenda” or “following the money”. Sure that sometimes happens, but then you get something like the JWST telescope which is causing people to rethink and double check everything they have been taught to be true. It’s doing the exact opposite of what some blame science for doing.
Dan Gleesak
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Yes that is total BS
Dan Gleesak
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Yes a small net warming effect that is not large enough to conclude it could not have been just the weather. That is the important part dude. That’s why scientific facts are facts, they have been through all this kind of stuff over and over and have worked out any such variables.
This doesn’t take away from the research, it’s just the study wasn’t trying to make a headline like you are
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VonBonfire
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Some interesting thoughts Daniel. I also have some random thoughts to add.
I think that most modern science is openly hostile to religion, and most Christian churches have knuckled under to scientific rulings and theories in an attempt to not look too far outside the mainstream, which just makes them more pathetic than most of them already were. Christianity isn't really about conforming to worldly perceptions and molds in fact it is more about rejecting them. That doesn't mean an outright rejection of science but truthfully to the real church science, tech, and politics have no bearing on the divine liturgy therefore it is mostly irrelevant and will never be central to our lives the way divine liturgy and prayer are.
As for tech, that has always been stuff handed down by demons aka "the gods". Greek pantheon stuff mostly matches with the bible, or rather, book of Enoch stuff. These false gods taught men fire making, weapon making, metallurgy, cosmetics, pharmaceuticals and drugs. These are fallen angels in Enoch while in the Greek pantheon there are specific gods associated with the communication to mankind of that knowledge. The trade off is service to the demons. The nazis didn't just pull all the advanced rocket and weapons tech out of thin air, they were serving dark forces. So really, science and technology has always been closely tied with religion.
Dan Gleesak
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I guess for me, i separate the science from the marketing behind it. People are gonna people, and spin stuff as they please. So I guess you could ask is the science evil or are people using it for evil?
Like this retarded back and forth I’ve been having. You could take that study and say “lowering pollution warms the planet!” It’s wildly misleading, but technically accurate if you wanted it to ignore everything that it leaves out.
acceptance
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You might think it's retarded and are free to draw whatever conclusions you want (I've been an environmentalists since I was like 10 when I first went backpacking). The biggest issue me, and one that I am sure Von would agree, is that you guys are getting high off your own supply. That is, you put too much faith in your models and studies and are ready to upend the world to further your cause, even when doing so might have the exact opposite effect that you think it will.
acceptance
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There is incredible hubris in the western world these days. It's somehow inversely correlated to the ridiculous amount of FAIL we're seeing in all areas of our lives — political, cultural, scientific/medical, military, economic, etc.
Dan Gleesak
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Oh look it’s story time again.
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VonBonfire
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Science is kinda like the news. The science and news part, even the most well meaning, is secondary to generating revenue. It's always about the money.
Some science is intrinsically evil. Using aborted fetal cells to generate vaccines that are peer pressured onto the public for profit generating is pretty evil to me. Ditto trying to give someone back their faculties using material harvested from a dead infant. I personally find a lot of the animal experiments to be evil and I am a long way from a PETA guy. That's also science. Some pretty severe evils have been perpetrated under the guise of science. I do not believe most science and tech is inherently evil though. I think that's kind of a hard core Amish belief but still one that strangely I can respect for some reason.
I don't really believe in climate change as it's being sold today so the arguments you guys were having was entertaining but not something I wanted to spend a lot of time participating in.
Dan Gleesak
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lol there it is. I even made a point to say that your favorite study used models because you have a predilection to shit on them.
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VonBonfire
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Protestantism is the wellspring from which it was born.
acceptance
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Interesting, how so? Paging @Starch Anton
Dan Gleesak
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I don’t like the selling part either. The earth isn’t boiling. Paper straws aren’t going to save the earth and electric cars still kind of suck. So I get some of the lash back. But I think that is more about marketing than science. Statistics can be used to make almost any data say anything you want.
acceptance
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I’ve never hid it. A model is helpful, might be true, it’s just not the strongest evidence to work with. Remember the 3.4% COVID fatality rate model?
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VonBonfire
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Because pride is the original sin of Lucifer. Pride caused men to reject the ecumenical councils. Pride caused them to make their own self interpreted versions and declare themselves the true beacon of truth. So the seed of pride is planted there and blossoms into the sodom and gomorrah stuff we see today, even right there in the pulpit of those same self made denominations. Ripening on the vine for the same level of destruction.
I have a close relative who is baptist and while they reject abortion and homosexuality the infection of pride is still there in the church and we can barely talk religion because truthfully he isn't hardly the same religion as me. Canon law prohibits praying with the non orthodox. He was over the other day for some brisket and his wife asked "aren't you going to say prayers?" My response was "I blessed the food before you got here".
Protestantism is christian to me the way a mini golf course is to Tiger Woods. It's golf, but it's missing the long game.
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VonBonfire
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The paper straws are coated with horrible chemicals you don't want to ingest. This is known so it seems criminal to even allow them to be sold. I personally have a hatred for plastic straws as well. I worked on the beach many years you have no idea how many of those things I picked up. Plus men who use straws look big homo.
The thing is that you need marketing if you are going to get funding for more studies so it's part and parcel. It's like an artist decrying the commercial aspect of marketing their art to fund the machine. I know a few of those guys and every time I talk to them I ask for a bacon cheeseburger and a large fry or "lemme get a pack of those Ernie Balls my man".
Dan Gleesak
Well-known member
I’ve never hid it. A model is helpful, might be true, it’s just not the strongest evidence to work with. Remember the 3.4% COVID fatality rate model?
Do you think the model your test used was different than the ones used for other studies?
Shit like that always cracks me up. People say “but the earth goes through cycles” as if they don’t know that because science lol.
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VonBonfire
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Well maybe so but there are still a bunch of religions that also believe earth will go through cyclical time periods. Even in basic astrology, we are entering the age of Aquarius.
Dan Gleesak
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I haven’t read up much on astrology. Outside of showing that everything is round and spinning and moving, I know very little.