Disease X

  • Thread starter Thread starter harddriver
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Floyd Eye said:
Yeah, I understand that. There is no evidence god exists. Therefore, blind faith.
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Well what constitutes reason and evidence is somewhat subjective, but if you watch any half decent Christian apologists I think you will find that they are well reasoned and evidential in their beliefs.
 
Floyd Eye said:
Yeah, I understand that. There is no evidence god exists. Therefore, blind faith.
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Creation is evidence of a creator.

Did your car put itself together? No, it is apparent someone has designed and constructed it.
 
Well it's been fun gents. Enjoyed the different prospectives.

Now, thanks to this video I posted, which I have watched at least 1000 times over the years, I feel compelled to go grab my American Tele and '61 Brown Deluxe and very badly butcher some Clapton riffs.
 
VonBonfire said:
The apostles walked with Christ and all but one were martyred. What's the motivating factor? Belief in a made up lie? You can't expect video footage. To the unbeliever there is no evidence that would be acceptable to convince them otherwise. It's a heart issue.
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The idea that someone “wouldn’t die for what they know is a lie” is not necessarily true in my view. And I strongly disagree with the idea that there exists sufficient evidence for ‘the reasonable man’ to believe and the only limiting factor is one’s bias. But I concede that many would likely still not believe even if they witnessed Jesus resurrection first hand.
 
acceptance said:
But I concede that many would still not believe even if they witnessed Jesus resurrection first hand.
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While I agreed with the rest of your post I feel this statement basically overrides your own objection. If you took me to "space" in person I would probably say you had spiked my drink, hence my continued denial. Even being a witness is not good enough for someone who will find justification to doubt. As I told you and jdel77, those who haven't experienced the Lord's gifts remain in doubt.
 
acceptance said:
The idea that someone “wouldn’t die for what they know is a lie” is not necessarily true in my view. And I strongly disagree with the idea that there exists sufficient evidence for ‘the reasonable man’ to believe and the only limiting factor is one’s bias. But I concede that many would likely still not believe even if they witnessed Jesus resurrection first hand.
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The fact is unless you are "Filled with the holy spirit" you are unlikely to believe. And I have never been filled with the holy spirit. and I am extremely skeptical of anything created or proselytized by humans.
 
Floyd Eye said:
The fact is unless you are "Filled with the holy spirit" you are unlikely to believe. And I have never been filled with the holy spirit. and I am extremely skeptical of anything created or proselytized by humans.
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You don't get filled with the spirit until after you are a believer. It's a gift to those who believe, not a prerequisite of belief.
 
VonBonfire said:
While I agreed with the rest of your post I feel this statement basically overrides your own objection. If you took me to "space" in person I would probably say you had spiked my drink, hence my continued denial. Even being a witness is not good enough for someone who will find justification to doubt. As I told you and jdel77, those who haven't experienced the Lord's gifts remain in doubt.
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I don’t think it’s contradictory — I’m saying that there are both people who would never believe regardless the evidence and also there is not necessarily enough evidence that the “Reasonable man” standard would apply. And I also acknowledge that believers justify their faith with reason and evidence, even if that’s not sufficient for me, personally.
 
VonBonfire said:
You don't get filled with the spirit until after you are a believer. It's a gift to those who believe, not a prerequisite of belief.
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Isn’t there some view that the holy spirit is in fact the “initiator” for belief?
 
acceptance said:
Isn’t there some view that the holy spirit is in fact the “initiator” for belief?
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Pre-destination. God has singled you out to be a believer and so it will be. I think this is a road we have been down before in terms of "do you have a choice whether you believe or not?" I think we discussed this but I am happy to tread it again, haha.
 
VonBonfire said:
Pre-destination. God has singled you out to be a believer and so it will be. I think this is a road we have been down before in terms of "do you have a choice whether you believe or not?" I think we discussed this but I am happy to tread it again, haha.
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Haha, maybe we have. Aren’t there a few passages that suggest God is directly responsible for a persons belief or disbelief, or sent “confusing spirits” or some such? I’m thinking of an OT king for example and God turning people over to a spirit of delusion as punishment.
 
2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 (ESV)

10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
 
acceptance said:
2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 (ESV)

10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
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Also Romans 1:28

God gave them over to a reprobate mind. Like a kid who wants to live the thug life and be a jail bird. Eventually you have to step back and let them choose their own path. But God is always ready to receive home a prodigal son. With festivities and celebration even.
 
VonBonfire said:
Also Romans 1:28

God gave them over to a reprobate mind. Like a kid who wants to live the thug life and be a jail bird. Eventually you have to step back and let them choose their own path. But God is always ready to receive home a prodigal son. With festivities and celebration even.
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What do you believe is the “Unforgivable sin”?
 
Arch Stanton said:
Best of luck with all that, Floyd.
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It does appear to contain a sort of circular logic. One doesn’t have the holy spirit without belief, and one doesn’t believe without the holy spirit:

John 16:13-14
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.​

 
acceptance said:
It does appear to contain a sort of circular logic. One doesn’t have the holy spirit without belief, and one doesn’t believe without the holy spirit:

John 16:13-14​

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.​

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Sure.. but what about that AC/DC clip ?

:unsure:
 
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