Help me spot check some recorded tones? (Heavy MESA content)

[DanTravis62]

Awesome. How do you like it compared to the amp sim?

I'd probably bring the lead up a dB or so in the mix.

I'm actually way more impressed with the C+ lead tones than the rhythms - and the difference with the amp sims is even more stark. Smooth, creamy, and defined

I was having some weird latency issues, so I basically did two "passes" of the entire song, knowing I was going to do a couple of harmonized parts, and then improvise some solos over the "d" riff section

I can't even imagine how nice that would be to track leads live with it! Besides just getting multiple passes, I mean. It paradoxically sounds really smooth and really defined at the same time, which must be insane in the room. Especially for the fast alternate picked patterns, I can kind of "get" how sykes got his tones.

I'm definitely a "feel" type lead player which is rough with amp sims, and why I don't use them except for stuff like this where I wanna hear your amps

Thanks so much for doing that man!

What I've learned, I think, is that while marks may not be my normal jam, I definitely like the tones for rhythm and LOVE them for lead stuff - hearing how it reacts with my playing helps alot.

 

[GJgo]

Awesome, glad you like it! Yeah the C+ and the SLO are the two best lead tones I've ever experienced, they're nuts in the room. These were just quick dial ins as well, with some time obsessing over it there's improvements on the mic I'm sure.

 

[DanTravis62]

Awesome, glad you like it! Yeah the C+ and the SLO are the two best lead tones I've ever experienced, they're nuts in the room. These were just quick dial ins as well, with some time obsessing over it there's improvements on the mic I'm sure.

For sure! Thank you for taking the time, man.

I don't normally do DIs or amp sim stuff, but I cranked it out as quickly as I could

I live relatively close to Mike Soldanos old shop so I've got a LOT of slo experience, and I totally know what you mean about them as far as lead tones.

I've owned a few marks (less desirable ones, never a c+, though) and though they were good lead amps they werent anywhere near how smooth and juicy your amp is

 

[Kordoba]

I'm actually way more impressed with the C+ lead tones than the rhythms - and the difference with the amp sims is even more stark. Smooth, creamy, and defined

I was having some weird latency issues, so I basically did two "passes" of the entire song, knowing I was going to do a couple of harmonized parts, and then improvise some solos over the "d" riff section

I can't even imagine how nice that would be to track leads live with it! Besides just getting multiple passes, I mean. It paradoxically sounds really smooth and really defined at the same time, which must be insane in the room. Especially for the fast alternate picked patterns, I can kind of "get" how sykes got his tones.

I'm definitely a "feel" type lead player which is rough with amp sims, and why I don't use them except for stuff like this where I wanna hear your amps

Thanks so much for doing that man!

What I've learned, I think, is that while marks may not be my normal jam, I definitely like the tones for rhythm and LOVE them for lead stuff - hearing how it reacts with my playing helps alot.

Did you mix/master the second clip differently than the first? They both sound great, but the first clip (to my ears) has more punch overall, specifically the rhythm guitars. Either way, nice job!

 

[DanTravis62]

Did you mix/master the second clip differently than the first? They both sound great, but the first clip (to my ears) has more punch overall, specifically the rhythm guitars. Either way, nice job!

I barely mixed either of them at all I was just trying to get the levels close so everyone could hear it.

I'll spend some time actually mixing it the next few days

 

[Kordoba]

I barely mixed either of them at all I was just trying to get the levels close so everyone could hear it.

I'll spend some time actually mixing it the next few days

I understand you were rushing things a bit, I get that.


Not to detract from your leads/harmonizing on clip 2, but I keep going back to the first one. The riffs and tone just slam. I'm surprised you are not getting more comments on these.

 

[DanTravis62]

I understand you were rushing things a bit, I get that.


Not to detract from your leads/harmonizing on clip 2, but I keep going back to the first one. The riffs and tone just slam. I'm surprised you are not getting more comments on these.

Thanks man! @GJgo gave me an offer I couldn't refuse!

I'll spend some time with it and see if I can mix it better

 

[GJgo]

Not to detract from your leads/harmonizing on clip 2, but I keep going back to the first one. The riffs and tone just slam. I'm surprised you are not getting more comments on these.

Clearly it's because the IIC+ sucks & no one uses it.

 

[braintheory]

I'm actually way more impressed with the C+ lead tones than the rhythms - and the difference with the amp sims is even more stark. Smooth, creamy, and defined

I was having some weird latency issues, so I basically did two "passes" of the entire song, knowing I was going to do a couple of harmonized parts, and then improvise some solos over the "d" riff section

I can't even imagine how nice that would be to track leads live with it! Besides just getting multiple passes, I mean. It paradoxically sounds really smooth and really defined at the same time, which must be insane in the room. Especially for the fast alternate picked patterns, I can kind of "get" how sykes got his tones.

I'm definitely a "feel" type lead player which is rough with amp sims, and why I don't use them except for stuff like this where I wanna hear your amps

Thanks so much for doing that man!

What I've learned, I think, is that while marks may not be my normal jam, I definitely like the tones for rhythm and LOVE them for lead stuff - hearing how it reacts with my playing helps alot.

That’s exactly what makes iic+’s special. My personal favorite high gain lead amp. For that I feel it’s not even close vs other marks the way it’s a lot more liquid in the way notes connect, more human voice to the sound. To me these qualities are still evident vs other marks on rhythm too, but in a more subtle way. Especially with a little boost from my Klon it’s unfair how good the lead sounds can get. I also have other amps I’d reach for more often on rhythm, but I think some of the old school American thrash type riffs is where it can be very effective. What I think really distinguishes the c+ is the density to the notes (no other amp I’ve tried has notes as dense), so I think the combination of it sounding liquid/sweet yet also dense gives the desired blistering lead tone effect where the fast notes come through with good definition/weight

 

[DanTravis62]

That’s exactly what makes iic+’s special. My personal favorite high gain lead amp. For that I feel it’s not even close vs other marks the way it’s a lot more liquid in the way notes connect, more human voice to the sound. To me these qualities are still evident vs other marks on rhythm too, but in a more subtle way. Especially with a little boost from my Klon it’s unfair how good the lead sounds can get. I also have other amps I’d reach for more often on rhythm, but I think some of the old school American thrash type riffs is where it can be very effective. What I think really distinguishes the c+ is the density to the notes (no other amp I’ve tried has notes as dense), so I think the combination of it sounding liquid/sweet yet also dense gives the desired blistering lead tone effect where the fast notes come through with good definition/weight

This is 1000% what kind of blew my mind listening to my own lead playback - as a home recording enthusiast, I've heard the little nuances of my playing a million times through a million different iterations of amp/speaker/cab, and you're right, it does definitely do a thing

It's got this smooth, liquid thing going on, that where the notes are really defined when you play fast, but it comes through in a very musical way

I've owned a later revision III, as well as a IV, and neither of them had it - though they were great amps in their own right

It's very interesting trying to mix with a tone like this because it's so wildly different than my "normal"

Clearly it's because the IIC+ sucks & no one uses it.

Judging by the used market, it may be that no one uses it, but it DEFINITELY isn't that it sucks

 

[braintheory]

This is 1000% what kind of blew my mind listening to my own lead playback - as a home recording enthusiast, I've heard the little nuances of my playing a million times through a million different iterations of amp/speaker/cab, and you're right, it does definitely do a thing

It's got this smooth, liquid thing going on, that where the notes are really defined when you play fast, but it comes through in a very musical way

I've owned a later revision III, as well as a IV, and neither of them had it - though they were great amps in their own right

It's very interesting trying to mix with a tone like this because it's so wildly different than my "normal"



Judging by the used market, it may be that no one uses it, but it DEFINITELY isn't that it sucks

I gotta see if I can find this reamp where my friend used used my iic+ for his solo in his song. It was glorious and I believe he was also using at the time an ‘80’s Marshall cab with 75’s, but a 212 iirc

 

[braintheory]

This is 1000% what kind of blew my mind listening to my own lead playback - as a home recording enthusiast, I've heard the little nuances of my playing a million times through a million different iterations of amp/speaker/cab, and you're right, it does definitely do a thing

It's got this smooth, liquid thing going on, that where the notes are really defined when you play fast, but it comes through in a very musical way

I've owned a later revision III, as well as a IV, and neither of them had it - though they were great amps in their own right

It's very interesting trying to mix with a tone like this because it's so wildly different than my "normal"



Judging by the used market, it may be that no one uses it, but it DEFINITELY isn't that it sucks

By that same logic of why the iic+ sucks, many of my favorite amps I’ve tried would also suck: Rev C Recto, Blueface VH4, Hermansson, Hell Razor, Ronin, Gjika, Jim Kelley

 

[Beyond Black]

Very cool tune, killer toans and super tasty lead playing, Dan.
Fuck, re amping is soooooooo cool.

 

[DanTravis62]

Very cool tune, killer toans and super tasty lead playing, Dan.
Fuck, re amping is soooooooo cool.

Thanks man! It's always a "coming to school naked" thing when you post a bunch of improvised lead stuff

I mean, everyone has their "pet licks" and the scales/modes mapped out in their head - "okay, so its in B minor, so I can get away with some E harmonic minor, I'm gonna do the yngwie descending 6 ascending 3 at some point and hope I can put the brakes on in time, then i'm gonna do the 3+1, then somewhere I'm gonna do some 2nps pentatonic stuff in B - tapping maybe? oh fuck here comes the riff what do I play?"

Actually making it happen without a ton of fuckups in one pass is rough, but im confidently laying my 4 inches on the table

Totally worth it to be able to hear me playing @GJgo C+ though, because it's wildly not the sort of amp I would play, and it's really cool getting to hear alternate universe Dan

 

[GJgo]

Thanks man! It's always a "coming to school naked" thing when you post a bunch of improvised lead stuff

I mean, everyone has their "pet licks" and the scales/modes mapped out in their head - "okay, so its in B minor, so I can get away with some E harmonic minor, I'm gonna do the yngwie descending 6 ascending 3 at some point and hope I can put the brakes on in time, then i'm gonna do the 3+1, then somewhere I'm gonna do some 2nps pentatonic stuff in B - tapping maybe? oh fuck here comes the riff what do I play?"

Actually making it happen without a ton of fuckups in one pass is rough, but im confidently laying my 4 inches on the table

Totally worth it to be able to hear me playing @GJgo C+ though, because it's wildly not the sort of amp I would play, and it's really cool getting to hear alternate universe Dan

"Dan's Larry Reamping Service" coming shortly? haha

Regarding the C+ tone stuff @braintheory talks about, in the IIB and IIC amps I can really hear how on the lead channel, there's a clean tone mixed in with the high gain tone. On my studio monitors it jumps out and I believe why the Mark IIs are so special.

 

[DanTravis62]

I understand you were rushing things a bit, I get that.


Not to detract from your leads/harmonizing on clip 2, but I keep going back to the first one. The riffs and tone just slam. I'm surprised you are not getting more comments on these.

Hopefully this is a bit better

I don't know what is all that different, mix to mix, besides volumes, but i shot my shot at a more reasonable mix

 

[sondoke]

I’m late to the party here but the album tone sounds great, and the C++ and B+ sound killer. The IV isn’t far behind, but I agree with the people that thought the recto sounded a little thin.

Hopefully this is a bit better

I don't know what is all that different, mix to mix, besides volumes, but i shot my shot at a more reasonable mix

Sounds good to me man, nice playing!

 

[DanTravis62]

I’m late to the party here but the album tone sounds great, and the C++ and B+ sound killer. The IV isn’t far behind, but I agree with the people that thought the recto sounded a little thin.

Sounds good to me man, nice playing!

Appreciate it man! Thanks for checking it out

 

[GJgo]

Alright, I'm back at it this evening. I wanted to take some of the things we learned from the other amps & revisit the Mark IVb tracks as I thought I could do better.

First I tried the "more power amp" thing. There was a difference here, but SUPER small. Not anywhere near as noticeable as change as on the Mark IIs. At any rate & left the power amp volume up just because.

Next I tried diming the presence & balancing 6600. Like on the Recto & the IIB, it really helped out a lot here with the IV. (..where not so much on the IIC+)

The new IV reamp (IVb P10) is in the folder along with revised settings pics.

 

[GJgo]

So tonight at band practice I played the IIC++ with the "Limit 2" settings I honed in on from this thread. Only deviation was since we play super loud I brought the gain down from 6.5 to 5. I have to say, that may have been the best I've ever gotten a C+ to sound in the live band mix- a place where I've really struggled with them. Straight in, it was epic tone!

I used to think that live tone & recorded tone were necessarily different. With all the reamping fine tuning I've been doing my mind has changed a bit, as I've seen a few times now that the best recorded tone I can dial in is also sitting super well in the live mix.