I am not really a gun person. but I want this!!!

[Jakem]

That gun should be obligatory for each and every school children.

 

[Odin]

Those of us who are free citizens don't take advice from subjects. Just be thankful that your government still allows you to use the Internet, they might deem you subjects too irresponsible to use the Internet and take that away from you next.

 

[mightyjoeyoungxnj]

No offense, really...But that is quite a warped view and assumption. First off, many shoot for sport and just that. Also, the way that you say "solving problems with guns just doesn't work as well as other solutions anymore" is quite a broad way of assuming that all citizens are as cordial as ourselves and will respond well to peaceful problem solving. Are you saying that any gun owner will break out his piece whenever he has an argument or a misunderstanding with someone? If an intruder enters my home (armed or not) and it's a critical situation, am I supposed to say "Hey buddy! Listen, let's just sit down over some coffee and talk about this!" I don't think so.

It's called defense my friend. We don't live in a perfect world, even if some of us do live in good neighborhoods. In NJ, we have plenty of nice neighborhoods, but by god we have plenty of shitty ones with massive crime rates. I live 5 minutes from one of the worst, so you better bet I want to defend myself if necessary. If certain individuals want to try and take what's ours, who is going to tell us we don't have the RIGHT to defend ourselves with arms? I'm not saying I'm for all out assault rifles, but if a law abiding citizen would like to own one then who I am to deny that.



I do understand your point, no one LIKES violence, and trust me, I'm not trying to start a shit storm with you. But, when individuals exist in the world who's main objective is to take from others, we should have the right to defend ourselves the best way possibly. Also, for something that has been in the Constitution since day one, there is no way that will change now. Well, that's assuming our next election goes smoothly.


-Joe

 

[Chubtone]

[
1 Major shooting since assault rifle laws were changed 15 years ago, that major shooting caused 1 death. Stop pretending its the 1700's, solving problems with guns just doesn't work as well as other solutions anymore. The fact many in this thread are effectively orgasming over a weapon thats made to bring pain and suffering only hints at the degredation in your social community, if this board is anything to go by.

Well, it's been nice having you here at Rig-Talk. Now go jump in your rainbow powered love mobile and get to work at the unicorn factory.

 

[Rufus Leaking]

[
1 Major shooting since assault rifle laws were changed 15 years ago, that major shooting caused 1 death. Stop pretending its the 1700's, solving problems with guns just doesn't work as well as other solutions anymore. The fact many in this thread are effectively orgasming over a weapon thats made to bring pain and suffering only hints at the degredation in your social community, if this board is anything to go by.

Well, it's been nice having you here at Rig-Talk. Now go jump in your rainbow powered love mobile and get to work at the unicorn factory.

 

[Copperhead]

Still for sale, unfired until I shot a box through it Saturday, works great!!

5.56 Underfolder. Guaranteed to smoke a unicorn at 200yds

 

[Odin]

5.56 in a Commie rifle? That's like a 7.62 AR...odd

 

[CharFace]

5.56 in a Commie rifle? That's like a 7.62 AR...odd

Beat me to it

 

[Copperhead]

Yup
Yugo M-95A. NATO
Came with the Zastava warranty card and everything!

 

[CharFace]

You mean like the one I use to bayonet people with?

Nice!

The only way to make that more badass would be to scrap the bayonet, and affix an M223 grenade launcher

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

No offense, really...But that is quite a warped view and assumption. First off, many shoot for sport and just that. Also, the way that you say "solving problems with guns just doesn't work as well as other solutions anymore" is quite a broad way of assuming that all citizens are as cordial as ourselves and will respond well to peaceful problem solving. Are you saying that any gun owner will break out his piece whenever he has an argument or a misunderstanding with someone? If an intruder enters my home (armed or not) and it's a critical situation, am I supposed to say "Hey buddy! Listen, let's just sit down over some coffee and talk about this!" I don't think so.

It's called defense my friend. We don't live in a perfect world, even if some of us do live in good neighborhoods. In NJ, we have plenty of nice neighborhoods, but by god we have plenty of shitty ones with massive crime rates. I live 5 minutes from one of the worst, so you better bet I want to defend myself if necessary. If certain individuals want to try and take what's ours, who is going to tell us we don't have the RIGHT to defend ourselves with arms? I'm not saying I'm for all out assault rifles, but if a law abiding citizen would like to own one then who I am to deny that.

I do understand your point, no one LIKES violence, and trust me, I'm not trying to start a shit storm with you. But, when individuals exist in the world who's main objective is to take from others, we should have the right to defend ourselves the best way possibly. Also, for something that has been in the Constitution since day one, there is no way that will change now. Well, that's assuming our next election goes smoothly.


-Joe

Which is all fair enough, however I get the impression (and I could be wrong) that most gun owners just wait for someone to break in to prevent crime. What's wrong with trying to deter people rfom actually committing the crime in the first place? I've seen no evidence of that, as opposed to people getting hyped up about how much their weapon makes them a man. Granted there is evil in the world, but I'm always struck with how obviously higher your crime rate is over there when I visit, and from what I beleive Seatlle isn't exactly crime central.

It's just painful to hear about continued killings of young individuals, than see something like this I can't help but think all those deaths don't teach many people anything.

 

[Odin]

Which is all fair enough, however I get the impression (and I could be wrong) that most gun owners just wait for someone to break in to prevent crime. What's wrong with trying to deter people rfom actually committing the crime in the first place? I've seen no evidence of that, as opposed to people getting hyped up about how much their weapon makes them a man. Granted there is evil in the world, but I'm always struck with how obviously higher your crime rate is over there when I visit, and from what I beleive Seatlle isn't exactly crime central.

It's just painful to hear about continued killings of young individuals, than see something like this I can't help but think all those deaths don't teach many people anything.

How about this - what's wrong with no committing crimes? Once a person has made the free will choice to victimize me that individual has accepted total responsibility for what may happen to him as a result of his choice.

People who ask "is property worth a human life" need to be asking the criminals who are risking their lives by taking property. Don't ask me, I'm not the one who chose to risk my life for property.

America has more freedom than other countries, and with freedom comes responsibility. Predators will exploit that freedom. That doesn't mean freedom is bad or dangerous, freedom simply allows the predator to expose himself. it's up to the free to defend themselves against predators.

 

[Code001]

I still never got an answer as to why it's sickening for a person to want to collect things like this, or go out shooting at a range with the above mentioned product.

 

[mightyjoeyoungxnj]

No offense, really...But that is quite a warped view and assumption. First off, many shoot for sport and just that. Also, the way that you say "solving problems with guns just doesn't work as well as other solutions anymore" is quite a broad way of assuming that all citizens are as cordial as ourselves and will respond well to peaceful problem solving. Are you saying that any gun owner will break out his piece whenever he has an argument or a misunderstanding with someone? If an intruder enters my home (armed or not) and it's a critical situation, am I supposed to say "Hey buddy! Listen, let's just sit down over some coffee and talk about this!" I don't think so.

It's called defense my friend. We don't live in a perfect world, even if some of us do live in good neighborhoods. In NJ, we have plenty of nice neighborhoods, but by god we have plenty of shitty ones with massive crime rates. I live 5 minutes from one of the worst, so you better bet I want to defend myself if necessary. If certain individuals want to try and take what's ours, who is going to tell us we don't have the RIGHT to defend ourselves with arms? I'm not saying I'm for all out assault rifles, but if a law abiding citizen would like to own one then who I am to deny that.

I do understand your point, no one LIKES violence, and trust me, I'm not trying to start a shit storm with you. But, when individuals exist in the world who's main objective is to take from others, we should have the right to defend ourselves the best way possibly. Also, for something that has been in the Constitution since day one, there is no way that will change now. Well, that's assuming our next election goes smoothly.


-Joe

Which is all fair enough, however I get the impression (and I could be wrong) that most gun owners just wait for someone to break in to prevent crime. What's wrong with trying to deter people rfom actually committing the crime in the first place? I've seen no evidence of that, as opposed to people getting hyped up about how much their weapon makes them a man. Granted there is evil in the world, but I'm always struck with how obviously higher your crime rate is over there when I visit, and from what I beleive Seatlle isn't exactly crime central.

It's just painful to hear about continued killings of young individuals, than see something like this I can't help but think all those deaths don't teach many people anything.

I understand what you mean. Yes, certain areas have higher crime rates than others. But the fact is, it is a constitutional right that certain people choose to exercise.

I won't rag on your values in the slightest, because I'm the same way in certain respects. I'm a peaceful and subdued guy. I do think certain individuals might own a gun because they feel like more of a "man", but that isn't the right reason to own one.

We value our freedom and right to protect ourselves over here. Also, many guys might have grown up around guns. My father is in law enforcement, so I always saw him carrying a gun.

I think the problem with this thread is just the fact that we live in two different countries, with different laws, and we carry different values due to our upbringing.

-Joe

 

[SeaDog]

I don't understand what gun owners should be doing differently to deter crime and I'm not sure what owning a gun legally has to do with preventing a criminal from commiting a crime, except to act as a deterant. In every state in America, the states with restrictive gun laws have higher crime rates. In your own country and England as well, the crime rates appear to have skyrocketed since more restrictions were placed on gun ownership (London is now higher than NY city).

Let me tell you a story from the seveties - once when I was five years old, my family was shopping for food near Pleasantville NJ (where we live - not a good area). My father took me and my six year old sister to the car while my mother paid for the groceries. When we arrived at the car, there were three young men sitting on the hood of the car. My father politely asked them not to sit on our car when one of the men swore at him in spanish and produced a straight razor and attempted to cut him in the face while the others tried to hold him. Well, my father was a big man and very fast, so he instantly grabbed the hand holding the razor and produced his colt 45 with the other, and proceeded to explain to them that they were going down the wrong path. I think my father (who was technically breaking the law for carrying a gun in NJ) saved us all some serious pain and hopefully taught these boys the error of their ways. I only wonder what would have happened had my mother been alone with us kids at the time.

I've been around guns my entire life and I feel that you may be biased because perhaps you don't have any first hand experience with firearms. Many of my friends that are anti-gun, really have zero first hand experience, so they fear them and see no reason that anyone should need them. Most gun owners in America use them recreationally and are not crazy, war loving, violence mongers. It just so happens that the hobby of gun ownership also allows people the opportunity to defend themselves more effectively (which is our right). Criminals unfortunately view guns as tools of the trade and if there wasn't guns they would use some other tool.

So while I also view all the recent school shootings, mall shootings and general violence in our country with great sadness, I believe the problem is a lot more complicated than using gun ownership as the scapegoat. Just my two cents.

 

[CharFace]

How about this - what's wrong with no committing crimes? Once a person has made the free will choice to victimize me that individual has accepted total responsibility for what may happen to him as a result of his choice.

People who ask "is property worth a human life" need to be asking the criminals who are risking their lives by taking property. Don't ask me, I'm not the one who chose to risk my life for property.

America has more freedom than other countries, and with freedom comes responsibility. Predators will exploit that freedom. That doesn't mean freedom is bad or dangerous, freedom simply allows the predator to expose himself. it's up to the free to defend themselves against predators.

Well put.

Given the god-awful litigious nature of modern day America, most of our useless laws do more to protect the criminal than defend the honest, hard working, law-abiding citizen. I know my leftist leanings put me among the minority on this board, but my libertarian sensibilities recognize that big, corrupt gov't is not what our founding fathers wanted. Preach it, Odin, if/when some asshat proceeds to victimize me, I will try my best to ensure that he never gets a chance to have his day in court.

Yup, just bought a fresh box of 9mm hollow points on the way home from work today

 

[Odin]

How about this - what's wrong with no committing crimes? Once a person has made the free will choice to victimize me that individual has accepted total responsibility for what may happen to him as a result of his choice.

People who ask "is property worth a human life" need to be asking the criminals who are risking their lives by taking property. Don't ask me, I'm not the one who chose to risk my life for property.

America has more freedom than other countries, and with freedom comes responsibility. Predators will exploit that freedom. That doesn't mean freedom is bad or dangerous, freedom simply allows the predator to expose himself. it's up to the free to defend themselves against predators.

Well put.

Given the god-awful litigious nature of modern day America, most of our useless laws do more to protect the criminal than defend the honest, hard working, law-abiding citizen. I know my leftist leanings put me among the minority on this board, but my libertarian sensibilities recognize that big, corrupt gov't is not what our founding fathers wanted. Preach it, Odin, if/when some asshat proceeds to victimize me, I will try my best to ensure that he never gets a chance to have his day in court.

Yup, just bought a fresh box of 9mm hollow points on the way home from work today

Now upgrade those 9mm to .45 and you'll be talking my language.

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

I still never got an answer as to why it's sickening for a person to want to collect things like this, or go out shooting at a range with the above mentioned product.

Nothing. But theres a difference between owning a pistol for the range and an ASSAULT RIFLE, for home protection.

I confess I'll never understand anyones fascination with guns, their pretty boring to look at. It's like collecting hammers.

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

Which is all fair enough, however I get the impression (and I could be wrong) that most gun owners just wait for someone to break in to prevent crime. What's wrong with trying to deter people rfom actually committing the crime in the first place? I've seen no evidence of that, as opposed to people getting hyped up about how much their weapon makes them a man. Granted there is evil in the world, but I'm always struck with how obviously higher your crime rate is over there when I visit, and from what I beleive Seatlle isn't exactly crime central.

It's just painful to hear about continued killings of young individuals, than see something like this I can't help but think all those deaths don't teach many people anything.

How about this - what's wrong with no committing crimes? Once a person has made the free will choice to victimize me that individual has accepted total responsibility for what may happen to him as a result of his choice.

People who ask "is property worth a human life" need to be asking the criminals who are risking their lives by taking property. Don't ask me, I'm not the one who chose to risk my life for property.

America has more freedom than other countries, and with freedom comes responsibility. Predators will exploit that freedom. That doesn't mean freedom is bad or dangerous, freedom simply allows the predator to expose himself. it's up to the free to defend themselves against predators.

Maybe instead of waiting for someone to inade your home and you kill them you and your community should look to prevent that choice from ever happening. I see no efforts to do this in the slightest. I also think it's extreme overkill to warrant someones death because they take your TV, or threaten to, thats not even close to justice. Your opinion obviously is blatantly different, but honestly thats ridiculous.

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

[

1. What does gun legality have to do with crime prevention? If they don't have guns you don't need them to protect your home, granted it's far from as simple as making them illegal, but thats the ideal situation, the bad dudes don't have them and something as simple as a baseball bat, or a locked door is ample prevention.

2. The restriction on gun ownership versus the crime rate changes are completely irrelevant in Australia. When your population explodes, as ours has there will be more crimes. My beleif is that if we allowed guns the gang problems we have would become much, much worse, as would our robbery rate. That's Australia, I'm not an expert on any other country. Like I said, we had an issue with gun realted crimes, we banned them, since then there has been ONE shooting, killing ONE person.

3. Nice story, I know its true the overwhelming majority of shootings happen in self defence. But can you justify people needing to own the kind of weapons displayed in this thread? A 9mm pistol is a lot different to an assault rifle. You can still use them for recreation and sports, you just can't kill and maim with as much brutal power. I have no experience with guns, they are illegal except under a few circumstances (none of which I qualify for). Theres also the question of whether most of the owners are law abiding, self defencive people, or more are criminals or people of questionable disposition. I don't know, it's hard to tell when it's all bad news.