ghosty999
Well-known member
I think they have some onstage cabs for some stage volume? Either that or it's feeding an ISO box cab set up.
I run a Mach 402 under my fractal to get some air moving on stage with a cab, as well as the FOH.
I run a Mach 402 under my fractal to get some air moving on stage with a cab, as well as the FOH.
RevDrucifer
Well-known member
James and Kirk both have two 4x12’s onstage they can walk up to for feedback and shit. Kinda funny, they never had live cabs onstage until they went Fractal. Big Mick talks about the effort they went into over the years to get the guitar tones consistent and why they ended up on Fractal here.
I remember getting the Stunning Cunts VHS back in high school and not digging the tones because they were more midrangey and didn’t have nearly as much distortion as I was expecting, listening now it brought me right back to 1997 when I brought that VHS home-
I know when I saw them in Boston in ‘08 I couldn’t make out the guitars for shit, it was a wash of midrange and I was only one floor up from the actual floor of the Garden, sometimes ya just get a shitty spot in the venue. I’ve seen Tool at the same joint 2 different times, first time fucking sucked and the 2nd time it sounded perfect. I think the only dude I’ve never heard sound off live, regardless of the venue/PA, was Jerry Cantrell and I’m guessing because I’ve only been in good spots when I’ve seen him. Standing at FOH at the Tsongas arena was something else, they broke into “God Am” and I almost shit a literal brick from the guitar tone alone.
I remember getting the Stunning Cunts VHS back in high school and not digging the tones because they were more midrangey and didn’t have nearly as much distortion as I was expecting, listening now it brought me right back to 1997 when I brought that VHS home-
I know when I saw them in Boston in ‘08 I couldn’t make out the guitars for shit, it was a wash of midrange and I was only one floor up from the actual floor of the Garden, sometimes ya just get a shitty spot in the venue. I’ve seen Tool at the same joint 2 different times, first time fucking sucked and the 2nd time it sounded perfect. I think the only dude I’ve never heard sound off live, regardless of the venue/PA, was Jerry Cantrell and I’m guessing because I’ve only been in good spots when I’ve seen him. Standing at FOH at the Tsongas arena was something else, they broke into “God Am” and I almost shit a literal brick from the guitar tone alone.
V
VESmedic
Well-known member
James has consistently added more midrange and wayyyy less gain over the years. Their tone started shifting heavily before the axe fx came into their rigs. I just do not agree at all with this nonsense. considering how many people here can get GREAT Metallica golden era tones out of their axe fx in their damn bedroom, but somehow the band themselves can’t do it with the incredible FOH and gear overall that they use? Come on guys…. Use your big boy brains here. James’s tone is not everyone’s cup of tea because of the bloated low midrange, squeaky pick attack, and less gain compared to years past. That has absolutely nothing to do with the gear they are using, and all In his taste.
I thought kirks tone was fantastic in that video for what it’s worth as well.
I thought kirks tone was fantastic in that video for what it’s worth as well.
RevDrucifer
Well-known member
I still keep going back to the overall tonal change being a result of trying to ensure the whole arena/stadium hears every downpick instead of a wall thick distortion being blown across a giant field.
I specifically remember them playing this and noting how Kirk’s tone, as soon as he starts playing, was pretty damn spot on with older recordings.
cragginshred
Well-known member
Keep in mind fractal recorded can sound AMAZING! Same with in ears. In the room depending on FRFR ect it may not be quite as good. Just my experience using Fractal on/off since 2011. Currently own a FM9 and will use it live for certain gigs.
tallcoolone
Well-known member
Ugh I know it’s not you but the term FRFR drives me crazy. I think TGP invented it which makes sense.
If Metallica was using tube amps you would be hearing 100% FOH, same as the Fractal rigs. On those stages amp/cab is just a stage monitor, you aren’t hearing one iota of guitar speaker. Just mic’d tone which as you say sounds amazing.
C
Candiria
Well-known member
I polled the ~80,000 people at the Giants' stadium, and none of them cared about the Axe Fx. Shockingly only 12 people knew what it was.
geetarmikey
Active member
Never been blown away by Metallica's live tone and like someone mentioned before they seem to be going for less gain and more midrange which makes a lot of sense mix-wise in a big stadium, I just think it lacks some power and beefy-ness.
cragginshred
Well-known member
Not the same as going into a DAW is what I was saying. That's what drives me crazy about guys who do amp reviews into a DAW with IR's that sounds nothin like what they are trying to replicate hence the new 'Dyna cab' technology FAS just came out with which is not that great either.
As a result all my amp demos are done with an iphone and the clips all faithfully represent what the head and cab sound like in the room
In regard to your fOH and using tube amps I disagree, just listen to the live tone from the late 80's compared to now it's not just more or less mids it's vastly different for better or worse to us 'cork sniffers'
. I agree with what mostly everyone is saying here the Fractal tones are no where near as good as what they got 20 to 30 years ago. Keep in mind they are using Matrix solid state power sections so,....
cragginshred
Well-known member
Maybe 100 guitar players would know, but agreed the vast majority are tone deaf and eat it up!
Les Zombie
Well-known member
I was at sundays show at metlife, good show but the guitar tones wasnt that great, kinda flat and lifeless if your standing in the crowd, i was on the floor but maybe the tones was better if you was in the seats.
I miss the days when i left a show and my ears was ringing, whats the deal with that, is it just me, my ears dont ring when i see metallica anymore, didnt do it at iron maiden a few yrs ago, or KSE or parkway drive, is it because they are using fractals and not real amps???
I miss the days when i left a show and my ears was ringing, whats the deal with that, is it just me, my ears dont ring when i see metallica anymore, didnt do it at iron maiden a few yrs ago, or KSE or parkway drive, is it because they are using fractals and not real amps???
tallcoolone
Well-known member
If what you say is true that the Fractals’ record amazingly then a Fractal signal going into the best PAs in the world will also be amazing. It has nothing to do with ‘FRFR’—in an 80k seat festival you aren’t hearing guitar cabs brother. Power amps and cabs are there for stage monitors, nothing more. If the Fractal sounds like ass, that’s how they want it to soundIn regard to your fOH and using tube amps I disagree, just listen to the live tone from the late 80's compared to now it's not just more or less mids it's vastly different for better or worse to us 'cork sniffers'
cragginshred
Well-known member
This confirms what everyone is saying.
cragginshred
Well-known member
Going into a DAW adding IR's and post production tweaks is not the same as what they are using live, but I'll tap out, bang on!!
C
Candiria
Well-known member
It's cause you're old and those frequencies are already gone.
Les Zombie
Well-known member
Yeah that might be it haha.
thegame
Well-known member
I’m sorry but I’ve been to shows where there were opening bands using tube amps whilst the headliners were all digital. The digital stuff cut through fine and was more than audible but EVERY time had no impact and punch whatsoever compared to the real amps. Three examples off the top of my head:
- Sepultura (tube amps), Prong and Testament (Kempers)
- Sacred Reich (Kemper), Municipal Waste and Exciter (tube amps)
- Some local band lol (tube amps) opening for Megadeth circa 2014, or 15 (AxeFx)
- Sepultura (tube amps), Prong and Testament (Kempers)
- Sacred Reich (Kemper), Municipal Waste and Exciter (tube amps)
- Some local band lol (tube amps) opening for Megadeth circa 2014, or 15 (AxeFx)
R
Racerxrated
Well-known member
Yep. Saw them way back in 88 on the Monsters of Rock tour. Sounded amazing, to me anyway.
Techdeth
RESIDENT ROCK PROFESSOR
The guitar sounds are really safe
TheGreatGreen
Well-known member
You could frame these threads as "the digital guys can't resist defending digital."
I could just as easily frame these threads as "the anti-modeling crowd can't resist trash talking modeling at every opportunity, no matter what the tone actually might or might not sound like."
All you anti-modeling guys need is the simple knowledge that a band is using modelers and you'll shout to the heavens about how terrible you just know the tone will be. You don't even need to hear the band first, but that doesn't stop you from thinking and telling everybody else that modeling is the ONLY reason the tone could possibly be bad, right? On the other hand, if you hear that a band is using tube amps and has bad tone, well hang on just a minute, we have to look at the guitar, the pickups, the strings, the cab, the mic, the mix, the PA, the sound engineer, the acoustics of the venue, and the player to know what the REAL problem is.
The digital guys aren't necessarily "defending modeling" in these threads so much as calling out the blind mis-attribution bullshit made by people who themselves don't have the experience to actually know what they're talking about.
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