Metallica tours with 64 guitars? JFC!!!

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GuitarGuy08 said:
Wait, you said imagine if they had to take the time to EQ their stuff - that is what I am replying to specifically. Yeah, the band SHOULD spend time sound checking and EQing their actual gear instead of modeling the gear. Yep. Part of the gig. I get it, wanting to do it the easiest way possible, but it is NOT the best sounding way possible, which is one of the appeals of live gear. Normally, I enjoy the gear live better than the album, not less, or I don't go. Yeah, we know it's easier dude, that isn't what makes a product good.
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Wait, you missed the point entirely.

The need to EQ is done before hand and is preset to their IR's/Captures. They travel with their own systems so they don't have to EQ at sound check, so you're saying they SHOULD do more work for less result essentially. I could see your point if they didn't have their own sound rig for sure but the fact is that we are in 2024. Things are made easier for better results, not worse ones.
 
I saw them in Chicago on August 9 and 11. The tone was good enough and they kicked ass and were on point with different sets each night. I saw them back in 2008 too and had a similar experience.

I get why they use Axe FX and I kind of don't blame them. The majority of people (we are not the majority) can't tell the difference anyway as long as the show is good.
 
mcstinger said:
Your sentence "Rooms change sound, it's not rocket science and even racks don't manage to eliminate those problems with venue speakers are crucial factor." doesn't make sense.

You talk about bands in small venues with fixed FOH, or you talk about big touring bands with own equipment incl. FOH, or you talk about backline and stage sound, or you talk about FOH? Or you talk about apples and oranges?

Of course it's easier and more convenient with modelers in context of eliminating complicated stage cabling and unexpected problems in case of complicated rigs.
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It applies for both types of venues actually so it very much makes sense. However, you're leaving out the key technical factor of the band traveling with the rig.

No apples and oranges, this is why traveling with your own IRs or Captures and your own FR speakers bridges the gap. I feel like people are purposely leaving out these simple things to mislead or deter from my points.
311splawndude said:
Sounds like it comes down to:

Make the product good?
Make the product easy?
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We can have both. It's insane that people still think we can't. I'm 52 and I'm even willing to accept the fact that times have changed. Yeah, I used to laugh at the Roland JC120 and Line 6 too.

We now have solid state amps and digital copies that can sound better than tube amps and their half stack cabs and there's some dumb fucks out there who won't admit it but if we actually tested their ears and brains for this in a dark room, they would shit their pants because they would guess wrong in the blind a/b test. Yeah, it's pretty insane 😳 😍
 
SteveGlitch said:
It applies for both types of venues actually so it very much makes sense. However, you're leaving out the key technical factor of the band traveling with the rig.

No apples and oranges, this is why traveling with your own IRs or Captures and your own FR speakers bridges the gap. I feel like people are purposely leaving out these simple things to mislead or deter from my points.

We can have both. It's insane that people still think we can't. I'm 52 and I'm even willing to accept the fact that times have changed. Yeah, I used to laugh at the Roland JC120 and Line 6 too.

We now have solid state amps and digital copies that can sound better than tube amps and their half stack cabs and there's some dumb fucks out there who won't admit it but if we actually tested their ears and brains for this in a dark room, they would shit their pants because they would guess wrong in the blind a/b test. Yeah, it's pretty insane 😳 😍
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People are claiming they can hear the difference though and it isn't for the better so....
 
SteveGlitch said:
It applies for both types of venues actually so it very much makes sense. However, you're leaving out the key technical factor of the band traveling with the rig.

No apples and oranges, this is why traveling with your own IRs or Captures and your own FR speakers bridges the gap. I feel like people are purposely leaving out these simple things to mislead or deter from my points.

We can have both. It's insane that people still think we can't. I'm 52 and I'm even willing to accept the fact that times have changed. Yeah, I used to laugh at the Roland JC120 and Line 6 too.

We now have solid state amps and digital copies that can sound better than tube amps and their half stack cabs and there's some dumb fucks out there who won't admit it but if we actually tested their ears and brains for this in a dark room, they would shit their pants because they would guess wrong in the blind a/b test. Yeah, it's pretty insane 😳 😍
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Having been someone who was in the digital and modeling side for years - they don't sound like tube amps. Period. I learned that plenty, believe me. I fought against it for years but none of my modeling stuff or digital in any way has come close to playing a good tube amp live in the room. I enjoy my solid state and other stuff for what they are and enjoy them but they aren't the same. Yeah, the crowd can't tell for the most part, but I'm not in that crowd, so it happens to matter to me. Different strokes for different folks!
 
GuitarGuy08 said:
People are claiming they can hear the difference though and it isn't for the better so....
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Exactly :yes:


SteveGlitch said:
We can have both. It's insane that people still think we can't. I'm 52 and I'm even willing to accept the fact that times have changed. Yeah, I used to laugh at the Roland JC120 and Line 6 too.

We now have solid state amps and digital copies that can sound better than tube amps and their half stack cabs and there's some dumb fucks out there who won't admit it but if we actually tested their ears and brains for this in a dark room, they would shit their pants because they would guess wrong in the blind a/b test. Yeah, it's pretty insane 😳 😍
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Did you just call me an insane dumb fuck?
 
GuitarGuy08 said:
People are claiming they can hear the difference though and it isn't for the better so....
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Making claims has never been proven to be the truth. Most guitarists and professional recording musicians swear they can feel and hear the difference of a tube amp vs a decently made IR/capture (doesn't even have to be 100% identical to the tube amp, so not even a great IR/Capture). The result is always the same in a live a/b comparison video, they always get proven wrong, they are surprised with how long technology has come since the 90's. A.I modeling is even a thing in pedals now, it's a good thing though, it resolves alot of issues that couldn't be 100% trouble shooted before.
GuitarGuy08 said:
Having been someone who was in the digital and modeling side for years - they don't sound like tube amps. Period. I learned that plenty, believe me. I fought against it for years but none of my modeling stuff or digital in any way has come close to playing a good tube amp live in the room. I enjoy my solid state and other stuff for what they are and enjoy them but they aren't the same. Yeah, the crowd can't tell for the most part, but I'm not in that crowd, so it happens to matter to me. Different strokes for different folks!
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I hear ya, I really prefer to play live with my Marshall JTM Studio for both indoor and outdoor Concerts, just purely for the fact that I just hate having to wear in ears.. However in bigger venues with massive stage isn't going to give you that feeling of "Having amps here is awesome", that's never been a thing and probably the last thing bands/artists actually think about.

What I have found within the last couple years is that everyone is happier with amp sim/cab sims straight to FOH and less happier with a ss/tube amps on stage or in the studio. In studio, people seem to be adopting plug ins and models these days.
 
i would have guessed my high school reunion was being held at the Metallica concert last time they played here, i go on social media the next day and had no clue every "normie", as us couple metal fans called them back then, were now huge Metallica fans bringing out the whole family, rocking out and posting about it for everyone to see. i bet Katherine from science class was craving tube amps
 
RaceU4her said:
i would have guessed my high school reunion was being held at the Metallica concert last time they played here, i go on social media the next day and had no clue every "normie", as us couple metal fans called them back then, were now huge Metallica fans bringing out the whole family, rocking out and posting about it for everyone to see. i bet Katherine from science class was craving tube amps
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That Katherine can really tell the difference between James' DS-1 and and Kirk's Expandora :) A true fan!
 
If you want the best when recording then why not do the same for folks shelling out a kidney to see your shows.
Reeks of hypocrisy.
 
SteveGlitch said:
It applies for both types of venues actually so it very much makes sense. However, you're leaving out the key technical factor of the band traveling with the rig.

No apples and oranges, this is why traveling with your own IRs or Captures and your own FR speakers bridges the gap. I feel like people are purposely leaving out these simple things to mislead or deter from my points.

We can have both. It's insane that people still think we can't. I'm 52 and I'm even willing to accept the fact that times have changed. Yeah, I used to laugh at the Roland JC120 and Line 6 too.

We now have solid state amps and digital copies that can sound better than tube amps and their half stack cabs and there's some dumb fucks out there who won't admit it but if we actually tested their ears and brains for this in a dark room, they would shit their pants because they would guess wrong in the blind a/b test. Yeah, it's pretty insane 😳 😍
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It's just more convenient to travel/gig with modelers. Whether it's better sound wise depends on many other factors. You are 52 but you talk bullshit, including insults.
 
mcstinger said:
It's just more convenient to travel/gig with modelers. Whether it's better sound wise depends on many other factors. You are 52 but you talk bullshit, including insults.
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Sounds borderline flirtatious, sorry I don't swing that way. I'm happily married with kids. Good luck though 👍
 
SteveGlitch said:
Sounds borderline flirtatious, sorry I don't swing that way. I'm happily married with kids. Good luck though 👍
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Don't worry, I am not from that group and I am not interested at all. Even if I was interested, I wouldn't want to spend my life in an unbalanced relationship. As a member of a touring church band, you would have a constant superiority of experience and knowledge over me :D
 
mcstinger said:
Don't worry, I am not from that group and I am not interested at all. Even if I was interested, I wouldn't want to spend my life in an unbalanced relationship. As a member of a touring church band, you would have a constant superiority of experience and knowledge over me :D
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Hold up.. just a correction, I know that that was supposed to be a shot at church guitarists but to an fyi, I don't tour with a church band, I just FYI, for a large scale church. We have 3 services on Sunday morning as we range around 5,000-6,000 members on a Sunday.

But to clarify, my touring days are long over, and my experience with anything is very limited if any. All that I have said here doesn't negate that I own quite a few vintage tube amps. I'm solely speaking on behalf of the bands and apparces that have adopted ampless rigs. They are not as apples and oranges as people think, it's just so much easier and with the same or better results, that's all.

And I do love how people don't believe my age just because I say something they don't like. It's very revealing as to the nature of the forums.
 
SteveGlitch said:
Hold up.. just a correction, I know that that was supposed to be a shot at church guitarists but to an fyi, I don't tour with a church band, I just FYI, for a large scale church. We have 3 services on Sunday morning as we range around 5,000-6,000 members on a Sunday.

But to clarify, my touring days are long over, and my experience with anything is very limited if any. All that I have said here doesn't negate that I own quite a few vintage tube amps. I'm solely speaking on behalf of the bands and apparces that have adopted ampless rigs. They are not as apples and oranges as people think, it's just so much easier and with the same or better results, that's all.

And I do love how people don't believe my age just because I say something they don't like. It's very revealing as to the nature of the forums.
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I suggest you reconsider the difference between "don't like" and "don't agree with". You are already 52 :)
 
mcstinger said:
I suggest you reconsider the difference between "don't like" and "don't agree with". You are already 52 :)
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I know the difference. It's "don't like". If it was "don't agree with" then members here might not throw around insults so loosely. Especially when it's something like church playing, or age but hey, looks like I'm not the one that needs to learn a thing or two. I'm not surprised that you would say something that you might need to consider yourself, that seems to be a thing around here. Otherwise we can have a discussion sure :)
 
I posted threads a while back on here, TGP, and TGF forums comparing three clips. Two slightly different clips of an Axe-Fx modeled boosted Dual Rec, and one clip of the real boosted amp through the same IR's. The video got 80 views from this site alone. 10 poll guesses on this forum were correct out of 80 views.

This forum did by far the best out of all three forums where I posted the clips.

If you can't dial in a tube amp tone in an Axe-Fx that you can put through a PA system or monitors (in other words, in the same context as 95% of all the guitar tones you've ever heard) good enough to convince even the most dedicated and obsessive tube amp guys most of the time with an Axe-Fx, that's not the Axe-Fx's fault.

So many people, once they learn a modeler is involved, are so quick to talk about how out of the thousands of variables at a live show the one and only reason for imperfect tone must be the modeler. Strange, I never hear those complaints when people don't already know modeling is involved.
 
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