Modelers suck

[DanTravis62]

You can do anything with an AXE or a Helix, those are the only I have experience with. Anything. I have 8 tube amps here and most of them have one base tone. Which I am fine with. Tell me what revolutionary amp has come out over the past 20 years that has revolutionized guitar tones as we know and yearn for? The homogenized nature of the past several decades of guitar tone has nothing to do with modelers, it has to do with what people relate to and identify with.

If any of us actually had the vision and talent to create our own true tonal voice on the instrument IME the best tool to use would be a modeler. But that's not what most of us are looking for. Here we want some mixture of the "brown sound" and that guy from Ratt. Over on the geezer page they want something else. Hence the "modeler setting" you reference above. It's not the gear's fault, it's the user.

People can only identify and relate with something that exists, and the more insipid obnoxious YouTube modeler users there are, the more it becomes just how guitars "sound."

And I agree that it's the users fault, but that doesn't change the fact that it's correlated with modeler use.

You can pretend all you want, but you know damn well everytime you hear that tone, it's a modeler.

It's not something inherently wrong with the modeler as a tool, it's that the modeler brings something gross out in guitarists.

 

[tallcoolone]

You can pretend all you want, but you know damn well everytime you hear that tone, it's a modeler.

It's not something inherently wrong with the modeler as a tool, it's that the modeler brings something gross out in guitarists.

Well that's just not true but it's cool, I'm not trying to change your mind. I love tube amps and it's all I use ATM. But in the end what the audience hears is the signal coming out of that XLR, and that signal can be reproduced.

 

[tallcoolone]

People can only identify and relate with something that exists

How about creating something that doesn't?

 

[rsm]

If I like the sound I'm getting from my various rigs, that's what's most important to me, not just guitar sounds either.

I'm happy I've been able to indulge in all kinds of music gear: guitar, synth, organ, bass.

 

[rsm]

How about creating something that doesn't?

That's what I'd like to see digital signal processing do for guitar that would allow it to make new and different sounds far removed from the physical limits of the guitar itself.

With all the plugins, digital and analog gear, it all still sounds like a guitar though, or a guitar synth or trigger for other sounds (Roland/Boss have been doing this for decades), etc.

I don't think we're going to hear many new guitar sounds that transcend the physical limits of guitars until guitarists demand it. Digital signal processing has the potential to make new sounds for guitar, but few guitarists who aren't stuck in the sounds of the past will buy it.

Tradition. It's also why we see little innovation in guitar design, and why Gibson, Fender, etc., keep churning out variations of designs from the 1950's and people keep buying them, and why other makers make their own derivative versions; few of which stray too far from the basic design and popular definition of guitar.

Meanwhile, it's all just variations of a common theme, the guitar itself is the main limitation to what it can do which is why people have been adding more and more strings

Some of these guitars with 15+ strings are just getting to be absurd.


I still have my Gittler Titanium. If I could find other interesting guitars that used advanced materials and engineering that I like, I'd buy them too.

 

[glpg80]

Read the title as Modelers fuck. Had to second take on RT.

 

[RevDrucifer]

That's what I'd like to see digital signal processing do for guitar that would allow it to make new and different sounds far removed from the physical limits of the guitar itself.

With all the plugins, digital and analog gear, it all still sounds like a guitar though, or a guitar synth or trigger for other sounds (Roland/Boss have been doing this for decades), etc.

I don't think we're going to hear many new guitar sounds that transcend the physical limits of guitars until guitarists demand it. Digital signal processing has the potential to make new sounds for guitar, but few guitarists who aren't stuck in the sounds of the past will buy it.

Tradition. It's also why we see little innovation in guitar design, and why Gibson, Fender, etc., keep churning out variations of designs from the 1950's and people keep buying them, and why other makers make their own derivative versions; few of which stray too far from the basic design and popular definition of guitar.

Meanwhile, it's all just variations of a common theme, the guitar itself is the main limitation to what it can do which is why people have been adding more and more strings

Some of these guitars with 15+ strings are just getting to be absurd.


I still have my Gittler Titanium. If I could find other interesting guitars that used advanced materials and engineering that I like, I'd buy them too.

Well, I think this is in the direction you’re looking for, maybe not the sounds, but on paper it seems to be a good match. Simeon has written some crazy synth presets for the AxeFX. Shit I’ll most likely never learn how to program.





While that might not be exactly what you had in mind, you can get an idea of the ‘create your own adventure’ aspect of a Fractal unit, if you can go all the way to the straight up synth spectrum with basic guitar tones being at the other end, the sky’s the limit with what you can come up with in between.

 

[rsm]

Well, I think this is in the direction you’re looking for, maybe not the sounds, but on paper it seems to be a good match. Simeon has written some crazy synth presets for the AxeFX. Shit I’ll most likely never learn how to program.





While that might not be exactly what you had in mind, you can get an idea of the ‘create your own adventure’ aspect of a Fractal unit, if you can go all the way to the straight up synth spectrum with basic guitar tones being at the other end, the sky’s the limit with what you can come up with in between.

Yes, I mentioned guitar synths; I have the Boss SY-300 and SY-1000; I'm not really interested in the GM-800 because it basically uses the guitar to control keyboard synths - I'd rather use a keyboard controller at this point and I do. I have a MIDI keyboard rig with 4x61-key controllers, I plan to replace one with a MIDI keyboard controller that supports MPE (MIDI Polyphonic Expression) which are still too expensive IMO. For example,



Guitar synth has been around for decades

Guitar synth takes guitar out of the realm of guitar vs making new guitar sounds with digital signal processing.

Unfortunately, I don't have an example of what I mean because I haven't heard it or found it yet. The closest is Blue Cat Audio's Destructor:

 

[DanTravis62]

How about creating something that doesn't?

If it doesn't exist, no one can hear it, by definition. Because it doesn't exist.

Do you understand that?

I think you're playing in waters that are a bit too deep for you, here.

 

[boltzthrower]

This is the dumbest fucking thread. Steak vs pizza! And the lynch mob ensues.

Some of y’all haters are deep in the closet modeler-curious.

I play a modeler as a preamp into real power amp & cab so I guess I go both ways.

 

[VonBonfire]

Steak vs pizza! And the lynch mob ensues.

Pizza sucks compared to steak tho unless you gotta cauliflower growing on your shoulders.

 

[rsm]

This is the dumbest fucking thread. Steak vs pizza! And the lynch mob ensues.

Some of y’all haters are deep in the closet modeler-curious.

I play a modeler as a preamp into real power amp & cab so I guess I go both ways.

well some did self-proclaim to being luddites, so there's that.

what you use vs what other people use shouldn't be an issue, unless you're a guitar totalitarian.

Meanwhile, here's a JTM-45 reissue to calm some down.

 

[romanianreaper]

Most of you are probably too young to remember the first attempts at modeling or digital, etc. and where we are at now. I remember the first LINE 6 Amp and was blown away. The stuff now blows it out of the water.

Like I said before, it is about convenience and other factors, not just tone. I love tube amps but I'm not interested in cranking a Plexi thru two 4x12 cabs in my house or at a gig.

I am not a huge fan of FOH for metal bands. When I saw Metallica and they did that, something was missing for me. But when Brit Floyd did it, the sound was immersive and phenomenal.

 

[rsm]

My ideal rig would be something in a small form factor, like the Mooer Prime P2 and their F4 wireless footswtich, running PolyChromeDSP software plugin.

The P2 would be mounted where I can see it on the mic stand.

Wireless from guitar to P2; wireless P2 to line mixer; wireless in-ears that I can blend what I'm hearing.

My tube amps and larger rigs can stay at home where they belong.

 

[tallcoolone]

If it doesn't exist, no one can hear it, by definition. Because it doesn't exist.

Do you understand that?

I think you're playing in waters that are a bit too deep for you, here.

If you had any experience at all with this stuff you would realize that with the AXEFX you can essentially design an amp that physically doesn’t exist. But yeah, I’m the one over his head

 

[Ben Waylin]

Most of you are probably too young to remember the first attempts at modeling or digital, etc. and where we are at now.

Yeah, the early stuff was horrible sounding.

It's amazing how much sheer processing power is required to have a DC circuit come close to emulating what is going on in an AC circuit.

 

[japetus]

Yeah, the early stuff was horrible sounding.

I was thinking about this the other day. A lot of the early stuff was bad. But once it got to the Line 6 POD...was it the amps that sounded bad, or the speaker emulation? I run a POD through a Bassman sometimes, and turn off the speaker IR's, and it's not terrible. It would be interesting to go back and use some of the old school modelers through nice IR's and see the results.

 

[Ben Waylin]

I was thinking about this the other day. A lot of the early stuff was bad. But once it got to the Line 6 POD...was it the amps that sounded bad, or the speaker emulation? I run a POD through a Bassman sometimes, and turn off the speaker IR's, and it's not terrible. It would be interesting to go back and use some of the old school modelers through nice IR's and see the results.

Back in the early days of MetroAmp forum (2003), there was a guy who came over from Guitar101 forum with his Van Halen-Line 6 POD clips and tried to be the HMFIC on an amp building forum.

strat78

 

[Dan Gleesak]

Most of you are probably too young to remember the first attempts at modeling or digital, etc. and where we are at now. I remember the first LINE 6 Amp and was blown away. The stuff now blows it out of the water.

Like I said before, it is about convenience and other factors, not just tone. I love tube amps but I'm not interested in cranking a Plexi thru two 4x12 cabs in my house or at a gig.

I am not a huge fan of FOH for metal bands. When I saw Metallica and they did that, something was missing for me. But when Brit Floyd did it, the sound was immersive and phenomenal.

Sometimes I miss my Digitech RP-7

 

[romanianreaper]

Sometimes I miss my Digitech RP-7

I remember the yellow one. Can't remember the number.