Modelers suck

[Crunchity]

Mixing has been the longest thing for me to learn due to all the variables. All that stuff was done on tiny Yamaha HS5’s in an untreated room but I just upgraded to HS8’s last week and am going through the hell of learning how those translate. And yeah, I’m practically sick to death of everything I’ve ever posted because by the time it gets posted, I’ve heard it for weeks. The recording goes by quick, that’s all done in less than a day usually, it’s the fucking mixing that sucks up time.

I sometimes have little to no mojo when playing or writing, it just sux,...those are the days I give up, set the guitar down and make it a mixing only day. Still rarely listen back to my own stuff when I'm down with it - but having playing days or mixing days helps break things up, keeps focus high on each aspect.

I appreciate a non-troll post, though!

+1

 

[DanTravis62]

Trust me, we listened and liked it even if we didn’t comment. But on another note, if I had a nickel every time you used the word ‘banal’ I could buy the entire Tesla company and have enough leftover for Tiago’s amp collection.

What other word would you use to describe the same YouTuber 5150 or recto plus V30 IR plus sm57 modeler setting that everyone in the guitar internet universe uses?

Insipid definitely fits. Tedious. Repetitive. Monotonous. Milquetoast. Hackneyed. Vapid. Common. Trite.

I've used all of those words on RT to describe the phenomenon too.

 

[DanTravis62]

Your clip hosting site doesn't have a counter ?

It most certainly does. That's how I know the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

 

[DanTravis62]

Hahahha that especially sucks when you’ve put a lot of effort into something and assume/think/hope people will respond with the same excitement. In the end, nothing really beats the excitement of being in the middle of writing/recording and discovering what’s coming next. If other people find some enjoyment in it, it’s a bonus.

More so than I want forum members to be excited about the music I write, I wish more would take note that everyone can be writing/recording music and instead of bitching about what’s “lacking” in the world, just write the shit you want to hear and do it yourself so you’re not reliant on other’s efforts for your entertainment/musical fulfillment.

That said, I don’t like everything I write, but I took Devin Townsend’s advice when he said “If you start writing something and think it sucks, how do you know it sucks if it’s not finished? Maybe you thinking it sucks is what it will take to finish the song in a way you dig”, sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn’t. It’s funny when those ones get more attention than the ones I really dig, though.

My buddy asked me to do my best impersonation of an instrumental King Diamond song recently - and do an attempt at a Laroque style solo

I did my best, but Andy laroque is amazing and I'm not that amazing at lead

Listen to Better-001.mp3 by Daniel Travis on #SoundCloud
https://on.soundcloud.com/PZnmY

 

[7704A]

What other word would you use to describe the same YouTuber 5150 or recto plus V30 IR plus sm57 modeler setting that everyone in the guitar internet universe uses?

Insipid definitely fits. Tedious. Repetitive. Monotonous. Milquetoast. Hackneyed. Vapid. Common. Trite.

I've used all of those words on RT to describe the phenomenon too.

How's this?

 

[MadAsAHatter]

What other word would you use to describe the same YouTuber 5150 or recto plus V30 IR plus sm57 modeler setting that everyone in the guitar internet universe uses?

Insipid definitely fits. Tedious. Repetitive. Monotonous. Milquetoast. Hackneyed. Vapid. Common. Trite.

I've used all of those words on RT to describe the phenomenon too.

I like insipid and vapid best. They seem to have more heft to drive the point across harder.

 

[DanTravis62]

I like insipid and vapid best. They seem to have more heft to drive the point across harder.

It actually drives me insane, because even as late as the late 90s and 2000s, all the bands I listened to had their own relatively original tones and sounds.

The last twenty years it's gotten worse and worse and however good they sound, I think modelers are part of the reason.

 

[rsm]

music homogenization is another sign of the wider decline of civilization.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

As much as I wish your point was valid and a possible future, I don't think it is even in the realm of possibility

At least with analog gear

That's already basically the direction modelers are going, although the available features in that vein don't do it that well IME

The two notes wall of sound is basically different EQ filters to simulate 6l6 vs el34, etc, because that's what digital is programmed to do right now

I mean, listen to the "great tones" in popular media - you can't convince me Tammy Henson or the Periphery street shitter or YouTube Shill Number 83639-26 aren't widely lauded as Good Tone™ because of the creeping homogenization and unimaginative tone seeking modelers have contributed to

And I honestly don't think it's Kemper or Fractal or whoever's fault, and I honestly don't think they sound bad or are bad products

It's because they promote the most banal, unimaginative, boring tone-seeking from the popular guitarists that use them

I mean, I think the one caveat to my point of view about modeling being a force for good overall, and that it could even have an even more promising future not just in convenience, but in tonal innovation, is honestly simply because Fractal Audio is part of the discussion. I think in a world without Fractal, I'd be right there with you. But dude the Fractal stuff is so good and allows for so much dialing in that I'm excited for the future of modeling almost specifically because of what that company is doing.

Even with Fractal's stuff, right now, today, you can get crazy deep into modding any given digital amp into something else almost entirely. You can't quite get to the level of swapping individual caps and resistors anywhere you want (only in some places), but you can do crazy things no layman could even dream of doing analog. All it would take is the right people doing modeling to move just a little bit more in that direction. I don't think it's as big of a leap as it sounds. Especially if it's treated as some additive feature you're not forced to engage with.

I do agree with you that most people who play guitar probably won't innovate and just want the easy way out of getting "good tone" by copying other people's sounds whole hog without thinking about it, even downloading other people's presets for tone, because they can't even be bothered to learn the tools they're using. And I hear what you're saying about innovation in the analog world. Getting good guitar tone with analog gear is fucking hard and quite complex, and even if you know exactly what you're doing, you won't really be able to exactly duplicate other peoples' sounds, which will lead to all kinds of different tones and then different people chasing even more different tones still.

But I still think innovation is just as possible in the digital realm. Yes, lazy people will use other people's presets, but if the future of modeling leans into making it ever easier for more non-electrical engineers to express themselves by creating entirely new sounds in ways the world's current tube amp and pedal designers haven't allowed for yet, I don't see that as a bad thing.

I also don't know if I can squarely blame modeling for any homogenization the guitar community might be seeing. I think that has more to do with how accessible home recording and just doing everything yourself has become over the past decade or two with consumer recording electronics getting ever cheaper, in combination with social media being right there for everyone to show all their tips and tricks on.

Modeling didn't cause every heavy player to gravitate to a V30 4x12 -> SM57 setup, pros showing everybody how good that combo sounds on social media did.

 

[thegame]

What other word would you use to describe the same YouTuber 5150 or recto plus V30 IR plus sm57 modeler setting that everyone in the guitar internet universe uses?

Insipid definitely fits. Tedious. Repetitive. Monotonous. Milquetoast. Hackneyed. Vapid. Common. Trite.

I've used all of those words on RT to describe the phenomenon too.

How about fecalriffic?

 

[thegame]

My buddy asked me to do my best impersonation of an instrumental King Diamond song recently - and do an attempt at a Laroque style solo

I did my best, but Andy laroque is amazing and I'm not that amazing at lead

Listen to Better-001.mp3 by Daniel Travis on #SoundCloud
https://on.soundcloud.com/PZnmY

That was cool and I could imagine KD wailing about some possessed doll from 1842 over that.

 

[DanTravis62]

That was cool and I could imagine KD wailing about some possessed doll from 1842 over that.

Thanks, I did my best with it

Part of my friend's request was that I had to use a recto profile, which for me, required a lot of massaging, finagling, and low pass filters - and I STILL think the low end is tubby

 

[Dan Gleesak]

I think music in 2024 is far far far from homogeneous. I agree a lot of the trendy YouTube videos sound the same, but that’s what makes them trendy.
Big picture though, there is a near endless amount of music in any style imaginable available out there, way more so than any other time period, at our fingertips; you just have to look for it a little.

I blame algorithms more than gear

 

[RaceU4her]

I think music in 2024 is far far far from homogeneous. I agree a lot of the trendy YouTube videos sound the same, but that’s what makes them trendy.
Big picture though, there is a near endless amount of music in any style imaginable available out there, way more so than any other time period, at our fingertips; you just have to look for it a little.

I blame algorithms more than gear

the algorithms are what find new music for people without even having to look though, someone posted the band Girish here recently that i checked out and liked and now its linked me to a bunch of other bands i like i would never have heard otherwise.

 

[MadAsAHatter]

I think music in 2024 is far far far from homogeneous. I agree a lot of the trendy YouTube videos sound the same, but that’s what makes them trendy.
Big picture though, there is a near endless amount of music in any style imaginable available out there, way more so than any other time period, at our fingertips; you just have to look for it a little.

I blame algorithms more than gear

I personally think it's becoming more homogenized than it has been in the past. There's nothing new about doing some experimental crossover genera, but now you have full fledged categories of Country Metal, Metal-Rap or any other weird combo all using the same basic tones. That pretty much points a giant arrow at homogenization.

 

[Ben Waylin]

That pretty much points a giant arrow at homogenization.

It's 2024, bro.

 

[RevDrucifer]

My buddy asked me to do my best impersonation of an instrumental King Diamond song recently - and do an attempt at a Laroque style solo

I did my best, but Andy laroque is amazing and I'm not that amazing at lead

Listen to Better-001.mp3 by Daniel Travis on #SoundCloud
https://on.soundcloud.com/PZnmY

That was sick!!!! Hahah if someone asked me to do an Andy Laroque lead I’d be telling them “The only Andy you’re getting is 12 year old me” I had no knowledge of Laroque until my buddy took me to a King show and while KD was great, my eyes were on Andy all night. How the fuck did the entire guitar world not acknowledge that dude in the 80’s?!?

I particularly dug the tone when you start the arpeggio-type stuff where I’m assuming you switched to the neck pickup, still cuts just fine but has that tubey/Yngwie-ish tone not gained the fuck out. Tight work, man!!!

 

[RevDrucifer]

I mean, I think the one caveat to my point of view about modeling being a force for good overall, and that it could even have an even more promising future not just in convenience, but in tonal innovation, is honestly simply because Fractal Audio is part of the discussion. I think in a world without Fractal, I'd be right there with you. But dude the Fractal stuff is so good and allows for so much dialing in that I'm excited for the future of modeling almost specifically because of what that company is doing.

Even with Fractal's stuff, right now, today, you can get crazy deep into modding any given digital amp into something else almost entirely. You can't quite get to the level of swapping individual caps and resistors anywhere you want (only in some places), but you can do crazy things no layman could even dream of doing analog. All it would take is the right people doing modeling to move just a little bit more in that direction. I don't think it's as big of a leap as it sounds. Especially if it's treated as some additive feature you're not forced to engage with.

It’s hard to point out to the non-modeling crowd where Fractal stands in that world. Between the worshipping forum members and all the “you need to be an engineer to use a Fractal unit” there’s some perceptions out there that have grown wildly in the last decade. And if you don’t give a shit about modeling to begin with, it’s like “Who cares who makes the best fast food?”

But taking what you said above into an example, I wanted to roll my own Jose modded Marshall a couple weeks ago, Fractal makes it easy with the Saturation switch, which is pretty much the Jose mod in itself, but you can tweak the fuck out of everything else, Variac, Sag, Negative Feedback, Tonestack, etc. while adjusting the degree of saturation you want the Saturation switch to do.

My starting point was here— amp has all the knobs at noon (stock settings) and the DynaCab was in the stock setting, mic directly in front of the speaker. Just an amp, cab and reverb-

(Don’t listen to all of it, it’s 9 minutes of wank)


Then 20 minutes later I had this-


Pretty sure that was my Strat with Pribora’s (50’s style output, they are not high output by any means).

I can’t remember which amp builder on ToneTalk it was, I’m thinking Morgan for some reason, Dave started to go on a modeler rant and the guest said “I actually really like the Fractal because I can try things out in the digital world before I do it to a real amp and it actually does what you expect”

 

[rsm]

I think someone mentioned this earlier about pros who switched to modeling rigs for their live tours just getting them to work as close to their real amp rigs and effects as possible because of the cost of touring with large tube rigs?

I recently watched a video where IIRC he reviewed the published patch settings of several artists using a Fractal; the net-net of the review was that the signal chains were very basic and utilitarian, and designed for simple control live...no dual amps or swapping cabs, or high customized deep parameters, etc., nothing that would take advantage of the capabilities or push it to the limits.

Maybe some digital modeling users are pushing into new sonic territory made possible by digital modelers, but I haven't heard it.?



edit: here's the vid I mentioned:

 

[tallcoolone]

What other word would you use to describe the same YouTuber 5150 or recto plus V30 IR plus sm57 modeler setting that everyone in the guitar internet universe uses?

You can do anything with an AXE or a Helix, those are the only I have experience with. Anything. I have 8 tube amps here and most of them have one base tone. Which I am fine with. Tell me what revolutionary amp has come out over the past 20 years that has revolutionized guitar tones as we know and yearn for? The homogenized nature of the past several decades of guitar tone has nothing to do with modelers, it has to do with what people relate to and identify with.

If any of us actually had the vision and talent to create our own true tonal voice on the instrument IME the best tool to use would be a modeler. But that's not what most of us are looking for. Here we want some mixture of the "brown sound" and that guy from Ratt. Over on the geezer page they want something else. Hence the "modeler setting" you reference above. It's not the gear's fault, it's the user.