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VonBonfire
Well-known member
What is the first amp?
TheGreatGreen
Well-known member
The first amp is the best amp you've ever heard and played for your personal favorite, most-used tone.
The second amp is the best amp you've ever heard and played for your personal favorite, second most-used tone.
Neither amp can replicate the other amp's tone.
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VonBonfire
Well-known member
THIS IS THE MOST AMAZING AMP I'VE EVER PLAYED AND OWNED BUT IMA BUY A DIFFERENT AMP NEXT TIME!!!!
At best that person is wasting time and money.
TheGreatGreen
Well-known member
You're right, no good guitar player has ever successfully used more than one sound.
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VonBonfire
Well-known member
You switch amps like you're sampling whores and you'll never have YOUR sound.
TheGreatGreen
Well-known member
First of all, don't kinkshame.
Second, please feel free to tell everybody how long it's been since I've sold an amp, since you apparently know that.
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VonBonfire
Well-known member
It was a generalized statement, not directed at you. Don't get all tender on me now.
Amp A is the greatest amp you've ever played or owned so you buy Amp B. Conclusion: Amp A was not the greatest amp you've ever played or owned.
TheGreatGreen
Well-known member
I'm not "getting tender" whatever that means lol. I'm pointing out that you don't know about how I use my stuff.
Your second point there is ridiculous on its face. "This screwdriver is the best tool anybody could own so why would they 'waste money' on a hammer?" etc.
Different tools for different jobs, brochacho. Sometimes you need more than one tube amp, sometimes a modeler will get you closer to where you want to be.
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VonBonfire
Well-known member
The only way what you previously suggested makes any sense is if you discover Amp B sounds even more amazing than Amp A. And if Amp B is even more amazing than Amp A then amp A no longer serves any purpose other than as a backup so it could be sold to buy a second Amp B.
TheGreatGreen
Well-known member
Or, you know, you use a distortion sound and a clean sound.
Or a distorted rhythm and a different distorted lead.
Or any number of combinations that would warrant multiple sounds.
Dan Gleesak
Well-known member
I know a few modelers that can do that
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VonBonfire
Well-known member
Congratulations, you've failed to make your point to me.
Metalhex
Well-known member
I'm still lusting after that tone in the Ola video Mooer Prime P2 Pocket Rig plastic hunka junk smart phone looking thing, and I don't give a shit! I guess I actually need to buy the hunka junk, I just detest registering products, accounts, emails, subscriptions, and doing things that involve a computer in general. But fuck I want that tone!
Crunchity
Well-known member
Bingo. I own a Soldano SLO. I also own a Bogner XTC 101b. Both iconic. Both are the greatest amps I've personally ever owned. Both have their own distinct vibe. Both sound amazing in recorded tracks. Sometimes a tune calls for the Bogner. Others, the SLO....and get this, both can even sound great in the same tune, especially doubled rhythm tracks as one is dark, the other bright (shhh, it's a well guarded industry secret to track tunes with more than one amp/cab, hate for that little tidbit to get out lol)...and wait, there's more, they can even sound great in a mix when blended with my Fractal.
MadAsAHatter
Well-known member
I think this is valid for us "older guys" who played tube amps before modelers started hitting their stride. A modeler will be a great tool, but will never replace a tube amp. We play a modeled amp and are amazed at the sound thinking this sounds so good the real thing must be even better.
To the point I think @DanTravis62 was alluding to with modeling being a bad thing... There's going to be a new generation who grows up on modelers without every playing a tube amp. They'll never know the joy and feel of cranking a tube amp. All they'll know is the replicated sound and more sterile feel of their modelers never even giving tube amps a try; or even a thought.
TheGreatGreen
Well-known member
I don't know how I can break it down any further. "Different tools for different jobs." "They're all tools with different strengths." etc.
I guess the other point is that you've now moved your position from "modelers suck" all the way to "it's a stupid waste to own more than one tube amp" which is an opinion that almost nobody agrees with. Your position is basically the same as "I already own a short sleeve t-shirt for the summer, so a coat in the winter is a waste of money." You've basically shown yourself to be unreasonable.
So, for this conversation, the position that "all modelers are terrible" is now a position held by unreasonable people.
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Crunchity
Well-known member
All I care about is TONE. I can get nice tone out of my tube amps. I can get it out of my Axe III. Everything else in the discussion (for me anyway) is far less important (value, stage presentation, tradition, tinkering time needed to get tones, trends, feel, does it shake the wall pictures, blah, blah, etc, just gimmie the toanz to track with please).
The only negative thing I would agree with others about is, with the best modelers, it's kind of a cheat in that with the push of a button any joe 6 pack can have pretty badass record ready tones, even if he's never owned a nice amp or learned how to dial one in, where others spent many years learning the art of controlling/playing loud and more importantly (for some), mic'ing cabs (which I'm betting most of us older guys here HAVE). But still...in the end, if one simply wants great tone and doesn't care how he gets it, I totally understand, lots of options out there now.
The only negative thing I would agree with others about is, with the best modelers, it's kind of a cheat in that with the push of a button any joe 6 pack can have pretty badass record ready tones, even if he's never owned a nice amp or learned how to dial one in, where others spent many years learning the art of controlling/playing loud and more importantly (for some), mic'ing cabs (which I'm betting most of us older guys here HAVE). But still...in the end, if one simply wants great tone and doesn't care how he gets it, I totally understand, lots of options out there now.
Crunchity
Well-known member
I missed your post before I tossed up the long winded shit above lol!! But hell yeah, that's what I'm sayin'...for many of us, we just want the tone, damned how we get it. At one point in time way back, I went through the d-tone phase and bought several pedals searching for it, didn't give a shit about brands, price, the idea of using a pedal for it vs the real amp, etc, just had to have that tone.
TheGreatGreen
Well-known member
I see what @DanTravis62 is getting at, that tube amps being abandoned will lead to stagnation as all modelers moving forward will be limited to emulating whatever static number of tube amps are left to copy.
I agree that modelers are work that way now, and that a future like that does look bleak.
However I think that's mostly a constraint of current market demands, not something that's inherent to the tech. Like what if people made modelers in the future that gave the user the ability to build their own virtual amps at the circuit level? What if you could literally draw out a schematic and place down virtual components and pots in a virtual circuit, and map them to physical knobs on the unit? Then as you change components, you could hear what they're doing in real time? What if you could do anything from modding existing amps all the way to building your own from scratch? I think that could facilitate a lot more innovation in the world of guitar amps than what we're seeing in the market now.
Like imagine if the ability to build an amplifier wasn't just limited to the people who have taken it upon themselves to buy all the tools necessary to do it, along with educating themselves enough not to kill themselves in the process? What if just anybody could dive right in and start putting together actual new designs without having to spend tens of thousands tooling up a shop, or invest in enough electrical engineering knowledge to not electrocute themselves, or incur the risk of producing a new design without knowing if it's going to be financially viable? What if you could just click around on a screen to see what you can come up with, with basically zero risk?
I guarantee amp design creativity would leap forward if you had more than, what, the couple dozen (at most) people in the entire world capable of actually producing new designs.
I guess what I'm saying is that modeling doesn't necessarily have to lead to a world where nothing new ever comes out.
I agree that modelers are work that way now, and that a future like that does look bleak.
However I think that's mostly a constraint of current market demands, not something that's inherent to the tech. Like what if people made modelers in the future that gave the user the ability to build their own virtual amps at the circuit level? What if you could literally draw out a schematic and place down virtual components and pots in a virtual circuit, and map them to physical knobs on the unit? Then as you change components, you could hear what they're doing in real time? What if you could do anything from modding existing amps all the way to building your own from scratch? I think that could facilitate a lot more innovation in the world of guitar amps than what we're seeing in the market now.
Like imagine if the ability to build an amplifier wasn't just limited to the people who have taken it upon themselves to buy all the tools necessary to do it, along with educating themselves enough not to kill themselves in the process? What if just anybody could dive right in and start putting together actual new designs without having to spend tens of thousands tooling up a shop, or invest in enough electrical engineering knowledge to not electrocute themselves, or incur the risk of producing a new design without knowing if it's going to be financially viable? What if you could just click around on a screen to see what you can come up with, with basically zero risk?
I guarantee amp design creativity would leap forward if you had more than, what, the couple dozen (at most) people in the entire world capable of actually producing new designs.
I guess what I'm saying is that modeling doesn't necessarily have to lead to a world where nothing new ever comes out.
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VonBonfire
Well-known member
You didn't draw very good analogies and now you are saying I said things that I didn't say. I own three amps, two of which are the same amp and the other one is the first amp I ever played, given to me by my father, and was worth keeping as a recording tool If it wasn't useful I would've sold that because I am not sentimental about material junk.