Modelers suck

[SFW]

Gentlemen, modeling and profiling are here to stay. Tubes amps will be here as long as they still make tubes. Use what makes you happy.

We are a community of people that spend way too much money chasing tones that were made with what we now consider crap gear....lol!

 

[VonBonfire]

Gentlemen, modeling and profiling are here to stay.

No doubt. Pretty soon we will all be able to throw away our guitars. Just to convenient not to with that good digital modeling gear!!!

I think it would be so cool to sit in a red computer chair with randomly laid out white stripes on it and just program all my solos and rhythm spots without ever risking a painful blister on my little finger or thumb. Don't even have to get up out my seat, just shit my pants right there and voila, the brown sound. Then get on meta and just do virtual gigs. Who needs stacks when you have air pods direct-to-head? The only thing is I just don't think digital barf bags will ever become a thing so when you listen to modeling stuff you will still need some wal mart bags or a leak proof trash receptacle to keep it clean.

 

[Shask]

The Uber module is unreal. I liked it better than my actual Uber rev blue

I really liked that one until I got the Powerball and Ultra Lead. The Ultra Lead and IICP are my favs right now, but really, they are all great. The extra graphic EQs on those really help you dial them in.

 

[Shask]

I plan to run mine in 4CM with my HXFX, and use the HXFX for MIDI control of the Synergy preamp. Recently did this with my new JP-2C where I have an HXFX patch for each channel...still have to program the MIDI to switch the JP-2C channel.

I didn't notice any difference in feel, but I only added comp and chorus to the clean channel 1 before the send, and delay1 and delay2 after the return; channel 2 is dry rhythm so far, but I did add chorus and delay1 and delay2 after the return; channel 3 is lead, and I have comp, chorus phaser and flanger before the send, and chorus, delay 1, delay 2 after the return...I'll need to check again if the pre-send effects change the feel!

edit: I forgot, I also have a pitch shifter before the send on channels 1 (clean) and 3 (lead) to fatten/widen the tone. I didn't notice any change in feel...

I think it would be fine for most people. It depends on how you play. I play a lot of fast, stabby, start-stop chunky metal riffs, so It is something that stands out to me. Just going in-out of the unit with no effects on I notice the feel feels kind of sluggish, and the low end kind of smears together a bit. It is enough to not sound/feel as tight and punchy. However, if you don't play that style it is not as noticeable. Or, if you use more effects than me, and that flexibility is more important.

I generally just use reverb, delay, chorus, and pitch detune, so those all work well with a parallel mixer. I was using something similar before the synergy, except I was using a tube head into a reactive load, then into the parallel effects, and then reamped into cabs.

 

[mentoneman]

Oh God....I gigged with a Johnson Millinium combo and that dang thing was a piece of garbage. During a show it started running thru presets like hot cakes and I wasn't hitting switches, lol.

you shoulda started doing the robot

 

[DanTravis62]

I think this brings up an interesting point. Maybe not one I whole heartedly prescribe to, but interesting to discuss; how many new amps and sounds are really coming out of tube amps these days?

It’s a wonderful time for tube amps for sure, more great builders than you can shake a stick at, but how many of them are truly innovative and pushing the medium forward compared to tweaking and refining existing circuits? If hypothetically all tube amp production stopped tomorrow, there would still be decades worth of new tones coming out with people just being creative with existing gear.

Now, as a tube lover and novice amp builder, I obviously see the value in tube amps and enjoy their tangibility, BUT I also don’t see a lot of stuff coming out that isn’t mostly a riff on a classic design.

Anyways as this video demonstrates, I think there is certainly room for both

At least personally, I think ideally there would be room for both, but that's not how it's working out. The number of modeller converts increases, and everyone sounds the same and uses the same boring presets.

And I very much disagree about people coming up with new tones, because tones are becoming super banal and boring and samey on all modern recordings, and especially YouTube videos.

I think modelers are a fantastic tool, but they're a Pandora's box were all going to rue in 25 years when no one builds tube amps anymore and they cost 70 thousand dollars

 

[VonBonfire]

I think modelers are a fantastic tool, but they're a Pandora's box were all going to rue in 25 years when no one builds tube amps anymore and they cost 70 thousand dollars

Do you think the guys in here will be talking favorably about the modeling junk they are talking about today in another 25 years? No those junk units will be in a landfill someplace which tells me it's junk shit, today, right now. In 25 years they will be talking about the latest piece of shit amp sim and angrily telling me I suck because I don't post clips, lol. Hopefully I am dead before these tone perverts completely take over the music scene.

 

[rsm]

Do you think the guys in here will be talking favorably about the modeling junk they are talking about today in another 25 years? No those junk units will be in a landfill someplace which tells me it's junk shit, today, right now. In 25 years they will be talking about the latest piece of shit amp sim and angrily telling me I suck because I don't post clips, lol. Hopefully I am dead before these tone perverts completely take over the music scene.

I'll be happy if I'm still here in 25 years.

However, I think there's going to be a flood of gear hitting the used market in the next 10+ years as many pass away and their heirs don't want much of their loved one's carefully curated collection of guitar/music gear, especially once they see the $ value.

I suspect if many of us here decided to sell all our gear at a reasonable price, many would have tens of thousands of dollars in return.

Much of today's digital gear won't be worth much $ unless some big artist uses it.

 

[RevDrucifer]

Do you think the guys in here will be talking favorably about the modeling junk they are talking about today in another 25 years? No those junk units will be in a landfill someplace which tells me it's junk shit, today, right now. In 25 years they will be talking about the latest piece of shit amp sim and angrily telling me I suck because I don't post clips, lol. Hopefully I am dead before these tone perverts completely take over the music scene.

FWIW, I never claimed you sucked. My reason for asking for clips is to gauge what aspect of what you’re getting from your rig that cannot be gotten from a modeling rig. I can give you multiple examples in audio form of why I‘m a fan of modeling that have nothing to do with my playing at all.

Where the playing does get involved; in 30 years of posting on guitar forums it seems those who have the biggest hot takes/opinions on gear are often the ones that still let the gear play them. They aren’t the types that can take a JCM800 and wrangle it into getting what they want out of it, there is zero concept of “tone is in the fingers”, if they can’t turn knobs and make the tone they hear in their head happen, it’s 100% the gear’s fault, regardless if hundreds or thousands of other players can get the tones they’re going for from the same amps. The guys who would never use someone else’s rig out of fear of not sounding good on it because they rely on the gear for 100% of the sound.

Personally, I can’t take that opinion seriously because it’s only part of the equation and the real heavy lifting isn’t being taken in account. Bitchpickers need not apply.

In full disclosure, I do believe you’re a hack. While I’m aware it’s a troll account, I think the only way someone could get to the point they actually wanted to carry on a continuous troll account like you are is when the quality of life has dropped to a point where this is the low-effort output that brings you happiness. If you maybe did something creative with your time, or put effort into your playing, you might find some solace in the world that made trolling forums less thrilling.

 

[rsm]

I think the Mooer P1 Prime, and now their P2 Prime is a harbinger of the future.

I have the P1, and the F4 wireless footcontroller; and I have a P2 on the way. It's the cost of a new Boss pedal, and less than many.

I expect future versions will continue to improve and add useful capabilities; they are innovating quickly every 1-2 years.

The future is coming whether we like it or not.

 

[Ben Waylin]

Bitchpickers need not apply.

 

[RevDrucifer]

Looks like they’re doin’ a Dime squeal so I’m not gonna fault ‘em much, but if they told me they needed a boost to play into that Marshall that looks like a JVM or DSL, I’d laugh at them.

 

[JackBootedThug]

And I'm hung like a mosquito and have a Diezel rig that I can't fit in either of my mansions.

Pics?

 

[MadAsAHatter]

Where the playing does get involved; in 30 years of posting on guitar forums it seems those who have the biggest hot takes/opinions on gear are often the ones that still let the gear play them. They aren’t the types that can take a JCM800 and wrangle it into getting what they want out of it, there is zero concept of “tone is in the fingers”, if they can’t turn knobs and make the tone they hear in their head happen, it’s 100% the gear’s fault, regardless if hundreds or thousands of other players can get the tones they’re going for from the same amps. The guys who would never use someone else’s rig out of fear of not sounding good on it because they rely on the gear for 100% of the sound.

Not to turn this into the tone in in blah blah blah discussion...
I 90% agree with you here with some slight modification. My claim is style is in the fingers and tone is in the gear; two sides of the same coin. No matter how good anyone is I don't think they'll ever be able to wrangle a true Fender pristine clean tone from a JCM800. That would be the gear. But any player worth their weight should be able to bring out the best tones an amp has to offer with their playing style.

I'm not a modeler guy, mostly because of options overload and I prefer the rawer tone of a tube amp over the more polished sound of a modeler. I can also play and record loudly and have no need to go silent with a modeler/software and IR's. But yeah, anyone who can't get a useable sound from a modeler and puts out such disgust and distain towards the technology 100% comes off as a complete hack.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

Do you think the guys in here will be talking favorably about the modeling junk they are talking about today in another 25 years? No those junk units will be in a landfill someplace which tells me it's junk shit, today, right now. In 25 years they will be talking about the latest piece of shit amp sim and angrily telling me I suck because I don't post clips, lol. Hopefully I am dead before these tone perverts completely take over the music scene.

Kemper is over a decade old at this point and probably more popular than ever

 

[rsm]

Kemper is over a decade old at this point and probably more popular than ever

I think the Helix hardware is around 8 years old now?

 

[VonBonfire]

Where the playing does get involved; in 30 years of posting on guitar forums it seems those who have the biggest hot takes/opinions on gear are often the ones that still let the gear play them. They aren’t the types that can take a JCM800 and wrangle it into getting what they want out of it, there is zero concept of “tone is in the fingers”, if they can’t turn knobs and make the tone they hear in their head happen, it’s 100% the gear’s fault, regardless if hundreds or thousands of other players can get the tones they’re going for from the same amps. The guys who would never use someone else’s rig out of fear of not sounding good on it because they rely on the gear for 100% of the sound.

I played a RI Plexi from 1994 to 2015. I bought two SF Twin Reverbs and plug straight into those since then with one OD pedal for boost that sometimes I forgo. I have an old Gibson-Maestro for recording. It has a tone control but the amp needs work. I velcro the boost to the top of my Twin and power it with a 9v cause I hate most pedals, all pedal boards, and I hate dealing with power supplies (does that make me a hack guitarist too?).I'm not saying your perceptions have failed you, but your perceptions have failed you. That's no fault of yours. We are all wrong sometimes.

 

[MadAsAHatter]

Screw this bullshit processed sound from a tube amp. It's nothing more than complete useless junk. What the fuck are these capacitor things? More like CRAP-ASS-itors. You can't turn strings into electricity and think it's going to sound good. Anyone who thinks people will be talking favorably about these useless piles of shit tubes in 20 years are out of their damn mind. You won't catch me playing on these piles of junk shit. You put one of those in front of me and I'll curb stomp it into oblivion. Anyone who plays a tube amp must have super high levels of estrogen. REAL MEN PLAY ACOUSTIC!!!!!

 

[Ben Waylin]

Screw this bullshit processed sound from a tube amp. It's nothing more than complete useless junk. What the fuck are these capacitor things? More like CRAP-ASS-itors. You can't turn strings into electricity and think it's going to sound good. Anyone who thinks people will be talking favorably about these useless piles of shit tubes in 20 years are out of their damn mind. You won't catch me playing on these piles of junk shit. You put one of those in front of me and I'll curb stomp it into oblivion. Anyone who plays a tube amp must have super high levels of estrogen. REAL MEN PLAY ACOUSTIC!!!!!

 

[VonBonfire]

Kemper is over a decade old at this point and probably more popular than ever

Strats are more popular than ever and I hate them too. I know you like your Kemper, it's cool, I don't spite anyone for the gear they want to buy, it's their business, but this is a modelers suck thread so I am being extra forward with my thoughts. Come to think of it I usually am extra forward with my thoughts, often to my discredit.