Modelers suck

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MadAsAHatter said:
Not to turn this into the tone in in blah blah blah discussion...
I 90% agree with you here with some slight modification. My claim is style is in the fingers and tone is in the gear; two sides of the same coin. No matter how good anyone is I don't think they'll ever be able to wrangle a true Fender pristine clean tone from a JCM800. That would be the gear. But any player worth their weight should be able to bring out the best tones an amp has to offer with their playing style.

I'm not a modeler guy, mostly because of options overload and I prefer the rawer tone of a tube amp over the more polished sound of a modeler. I can also play and record loudly and have no need to go silent with a modeler/software and IR's. But yeah, anyone who can't get a useable sound from a modeler and puts out such disgust and distain towards the technology 100% comes off as a complete hack.
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Agree with much of this as well, said something similar a few pages back ("look, if you can dial in tone and play, you can dial in tone and play, provided the gear is solid"...and if you can't, you can't, its not rocket science).

There are bazillions of clips out there of music recorded with a fractals, helix, kempers, etc, that sound fantastic and right on par with tunes tracked with real amps (in many cases using BOTH and indistinguishable from one another). No forum jockey is suddenly gonna transform that material into poor sounding simply by spewing their disdain of the tech. Sorry.

As far as posting clips, I normally don't feel one has to do that to share an opinion (or in this case, bash for the sake of bashing, which I get it, this thread is purely to troll)...but then again, if someone is going to be that hyper critical of other players gear choices and literally state they must suck for choosing it, then yeah, perhaps a clip of your own dazzling tone and guitar work would add some weight to your stance - otherwise they come off as a d-bag just trying to push buttons...fuck 'em.
 
rsm said:
I think the Helix hardware is around 8 years old now?
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Looks like the Helix was 2015 and Kemper 2011. The cool thing with Kemper is that it's basically the same hardware. it's maybe not cutting edge anymore but users don't have to worry about their units being outdated with every version or update.

I think the dude from Rival Sons occasionally running a Helix rig is a huge endorsement for them. To me he is the epitome of a modern day "vintage/analog" lover.
 
rsm said:
:D

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I'll see your Leon and raise you an Ola. Lol!

Seriously though, the first opening tones Ola gets on this is very close to the tone I've been hearing in my head. It's actually the tone I've been looking for! The thing is is I don't want to buy this small piece of plastic to get it, I wish there was another way to get this tone because my trial and error with gear hasn't gotten me there.

I want that tone!

(Oops didn't realize someone posted this video already)
 
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VonBonfire said:
No doubt. Pretty soon we will all be able to throw away our guitars. Just to convenient not to with that good digital modeling gear!!!

I think it would be so cool to sit in a red computer chair with randomly laid out white stripes on it and just program all my solos and rhythm spots without ever risking a painful blister on my little finger or thumb. Don't even have to get up out my seat, just shit my pants right there and voila, the brown sound. Then get on meta and just do virtual gigs. Who needs stacks when you have air pods direct-to-head? The only thing is I just don't think digital barf bags will ever become a thing so when you listen to modeling stuff you will still need some wal mart bags or a leak proof trash receptacle to keep it clean.
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Just curious, do you record all your analog gear using a digital workstation, or do you still use tape reel to reel?
 
Metalhex said:
Just curious, do you record all your analog gear using a digital workstation, or do you still use tape reel to reel?
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All but the last couple recordings. Over the years the number of studios keeping working analog stuff on hand has dwindled. We're doing everything ourselves this time so that means digital since I don't have an unlimited budget.
 
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Aynirar27 said:
Looks like the Helix was 2015 and Kemper 2011. The cool thing with Kemper is that it's basically the same hardware. it's maybe not cutting edge anymore but users don't have to worry about their units being outdated with every version or update.

I think the dude from Rival Sons occasionally running a Helix rig is a huge endorsement for them. To me he is the epitome of a modern day "vintage/analog" lover.
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Yeah, Kemper gets slagged for a lack of updates to the platform but the sheer amount of them in professional live rigs points to the fact they got it right the first time around. I think they found their footing in the more utility-based aspects, “I have a rig I need recreated night after night, not looking to explore tones, just copy my rig”.

Rival Sons dude is also running into real cabs, which is also what Big Wreck started doing on the tour they just wrapped, albeit with Fractals. I will not be surprised to see more bands doing this as time goes on because for as convenient as all this modeling shit is, mainly in smaller venues where the audience is taking a hit by not having cabs onstage and only relying on a PA. Not to mention the playing-related things like feedback or just the fun of pants flapping.

I think that Rival Sons dude is using Duncan power stations, too. I suppose if he’s got the big ass one he can get those cabs cranking pretty hard, but even me being a modeling fan wants a tube power section to push cabs.
 
For as much as he's trolling and won't post clips

I think vonbonfire is correct about the general direction and momentum of modeling being a very bad thing.

It's not the modelers themselves as much as the "convenience over all" modern attitude that's going to cause a bunch of unpleasant unforseen side effects
 
All the Johnson Millennium talk in this thread brought back a memory. It was the late 90’s, I’m a teenager at the music store shopping for an amp. Sales dude wants to show me an amp, he’s got acid washed jeans, white hi tops, mullet, he looks like Eric Johnson if he was an 80’s butt metal guy that lived in a trailer. He plugs into the JM and says, “Here’s how you play to a sold out arena… in your bedroom” and proceeds to solo away on some mega delay preset. This dude just kept playing and wouldn’t stop. My friend and I are looking at each other like wtf is wrong with this guy as he doodley-doo’d away for an uncomfortably long amount of time. Apparently it was his chance to take center stage, lol, what a kook. He finally let us play it once we were starting to walk away.
 
boltzthrower said:
All the Johnson Millennium talk in this thread brought back a memory. It was the late 90’s, I’m a teenager at the music store shopping for an amp. Sales dude wants to show me an amp, he’s got acid washed jeans, white hi tops, mullet, he looks like Eric Johnson if he was an 80’s butt metal guy that lived in a trailer. He plugs into the JM and says, “Here’s how you play to a sold out arena… in your bedroom” and proceeds to solo away on some mega delay preset. This dude just kept playing and wouldn’t stop. My friend and I are looking at each other like wtf is wrong with this guy as he doodley-doo’d away for an uncomfortably long amount of time. Apparently it was his chance to take center stage, lol, what a kook. He finally let us play it once we were starting to walk away.
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So many people call for the death of big box stores like Guitar Center and Sam Ash. Those people have no idea what an alternate universe of nothing but mom & pop stores would be like. It would be so, so much worse.

Most mom and pop stores in my experience are exactly like this in one way or another. If it's not some idiot pretending to be a rock star at you, it's another idiot explaining why it's store policy to not let anybody play anything in the store because it's all "too nice" even though you look around and see nothing but beginner Schecters and Squiers priced 50% higher than you can get them anywhere else.
 
TheGreatGreen said:
So many people call for the death of big box stores like Guitar Center and Sam Ash. Those people have no idea what an alternate universe of nothing but mom & pop stores would be like. It would be so, so much worse.
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This is true but they are all rapists. I still recall a 1100 dollar price tag on a sunburst American Strat and the 650 dollar price on the CB1000 drum kit at my local rip off shop. That was 1990. I haven't paid that much for a set of roundwound strings since that time. $7-8 bucks a pack. The best deal in the whole store was the 30 cent glass bottles of soda in the basement when you was waiting for your guitar lessons. Gee I can't imagine why they folded. One thing I can be thankful to them for was fostering my negativity and anger so at least I walked away with that.
 
boltzthrower said:
All the Johnson Millennium talk in this thread brought back a memory. It was the late 90’s, I’m a teenager at the music store shopping for an amp. Sales dude wants to show me an amp, he’s got acid washed jeans, white hi tops, mullet, he looks like Eric Johnson if he was an 80’s butt metal guy that lived in a trailer. He plugs into the JM and says, “Here’s how you play to a sold out arena… in your bedroom” and proceeds to solo away on some mega delay preset. This dude just kept playing and wouldn’t stop. My friend and I are looking at each other like wtf is wrong with this guy as he doodley-doo’d away for an uncomfortably long amount of time. Apparently it was his chance to take center stage, lol, what a kook. He finally let us play it once we were starting to walk away.
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I’ve only had 1 experience with that amp, I was picking up my uncle’s Ibanez that I broke the headstock on and saw the store had a used Digitech Whammy II, this was during the period Digitech wasn’t making a Whammy, but those XP pedals that didn’t quite cut it. I asked if I could try it out and the salesman took the opportunity to ask if I had seen the Milennium amp, I was aware of it but think I already had my Legacy half stack around then and had zero interest in much else.

I hated it. I remember futzing with the knobs for a couple minutes until I gave up, tested the Whammy’s functions and bought it. I was right about the target audience for that amp at the time, I couldn’t have been older than 16 or 17 and was just starting to buy legit gear to gig with.

I was anti-modeling right up until around 2011/2012. It wasn’t until I heard an AxeFX doing a legit-sounding edge of breakup tone that I felt modeling had gotten to a good point.
 
I have no clue who this fella is and won’t be arsed with looking him up.

I agree to an extent. I do not like direct modeled sounds at shows. This is why I always run into the return of whatever backline JCM or DSL is at our venues and come through a cab.

I am still able to get that “air” on stage, get feedback when I want it, etc.

For travel I can take my QC or Stomp XL as well as the KsR PA-50 and they fit in my carry on bag WITH clothes for a few days.
 
Shask said:
Speaking of modelers, I thought I would run the Syn2 through my Fractal units for effects, but I am not loving what the AD/DA converters are doing to the feel, so now I have my Axe FX going through a line mixer in parallel so I can still get the time effects and still have my analog dry through. The Syn2 has a very fast, snappy attack to it.
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Interesting, I haven’t used my axe FX for amp modeling in maybe a year, but I do use it in the loop (or after load box) with tube amps, for eq, delay, and reverb. Maybe I should do some rerouting and try my amps without it. I haven’t done that in a really long time.
 
mnemonic said:
Interesting, I haven’t used my axe FX for amp modeling in maybe a year, but I do use it in the loop (or after load box) with tube amps, for eq, delay, and reverb. Maybe I should do some rerouting and try my amps without it. I haven’t done that in a really long time.
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Yeah, I have been messing with it a lot lately using my Axe II and my FM3. I definitely notice the feel being more sluggish, compressed, and the bass kinda smearing together some. It is not dramatic, but it bugs me. I play a lot of fast stabby type riffs ( Fear Factory, Prong, Helmet, 90s Era Meshuggah, etc...), so it really stands out through the Syn 2, which has a super tight, snappy attack.

I would prefer not to run it in parallel, so I could use the EQs and gate, but with the feel change, I might as well just use my FM3 instead, lol.

Give it a try and see if it something you notice.
 
DanTravis62 said:
For as much as he's trolling and won't post clips

I think vonbonfire is correct about the general direction and momentum of modeling being a very bad thing.

It's not the modelers themselves as much as the "convenience over all" modern attitude that's going to cause a bunch of unpleasant unforseen side effects
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I dunno, man, as much as I dig modeling I still bought 3 tube amps in 2023 and have more planned to buy this year. In the last year on my forum we‘ve seen people buying Friedman’s because they loved the Fractal models so much, I think @PBGas just bought a Stealth after Fractal added the 100-watt Stealth model to the AxeFXand I know I saw some people buying Carol Ann’s after those got added to Fractal a few year’s back, I’m sure there’s plenty more examples out there. The Fractal is why I’m REALLY interested in checking out a Nitro the first chance I get and if it slays as much as the Fractal model does, I want it.

There’s been nothing stopping any amp designers from going crazy/getting innovative with designs for the last 30 years outside of amp designers not having the inspiration/desire to do so, or the market not asking for it. Outside of Mesa I haven’t really seen any amp companies doing more than coming up with a different way to re-badge their signature sound. Maybe H&K?

And one of the most common things you’ll see the ‘convencience’ guys say, “I gig with a modeler but still have my amps at home” and while some are certainly taking the “It’s convenient and that’s all that matters route”, some are doing it because the places they play demand it and it has nothing to do with the guitarist at all.
 
RevDrucifer said:
I dunno, man, as much as I dig modeling I still bought 3 tube amps in 2023 and have more planned to buy this year. In the last year on my forum we‘ve seen people buying Friedman’s because they loved the Fractal models so much,
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Blah blah blah blah modeling is great now let me tell you about all the tube amps I bought.

Shake my head.
 
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