Nitrobattery
Well-known member
Right? It's not exactly an amp lacking in low end.
Right? It's not exactly an amp lacking in low end.
Meeotch
Well-known member
IMO there's no reason for an amp of this caliber to NOT have a resonance control. The knob goes both ways too.
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braintheory
Well-known member
Having knobs for more tonal flexibility is always nice, but not essential imo. Also, I’ve yet to hear any Boogie amp made in over 25 years now that I’d say is a very high caliber amp in tone. Friedman’s and Soldano’s (although they have them now) didn’t usually have depth knobs in the past yet sold for very high prices. My Hiwatt has the second biggest bottom end of any amp I’ve ever tried (when played at volume) and has no depth type knob either. I personally prefer the simplicity as long as I can get the tones I want without the extra knobs. If the rectifier series of amps traditionally came with depth knobs I’d see more argument to this, but since they didn’t it seems more fitting imo to not have it
Bad.Seed
Well-known member
I like them for fine tuning the low end. Having control over the lows at 2 different frequencies really helps find the sweet spot for the cab, guitar, etc you're using. Pretty much all modern high gain amps have them, so it's a little surprising Mesa didn't think to work it in.
fusedbrain
Well-known member
I thought Mesa didn't put a resonance control on the Recto's because in the high gain mode ( Modern or Red I think ) there's no negative feedback., and the "presence" is actually in the tone stack.
Ya can't have a depth control without the NFB.
Ya can't have a depth control without the NFB.
PBGas
Well-known member
The original cab clone? I think everyone ditched that. LOL. That was a resistive load that is stock in the other amps. This new cabclone IR version is way different and is a reactive load. They are using the Two-notes tech in them. I actually really liked the one I tried. Glad they put that into this amp.
I also like that you can have a different IR on each channel saved. Great for if you need to change the tone a bit for leads vs. Rhythm.
R
Racerxrated
Well-known member
That's the ONE thing in my experience these amps have more than enough of....The Duals I ditched because I couldn't dial out the low end enough. Too tubby sounding even with a boost. The Triples were perfect though.
Nitrobattery
Well-known member
This
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Faded Abyss
Active member
I would like to know more about this. I didn’t think presence could be a part of the preamps tone stack? I thought it was exclusive to the power amp section? So at which point of your typical amp that has a resonance control, is the the NFB affected? When resonance is at 0, no NFB?
LPMojoGL
Well-known member
I do.
Soundgarden did.
Swing and a miss for me, this Badlander.
Which is the name for the seat on my '02 Harley Night Train.
They got rid of too many options, added Cab Clone (which I've read plenty of negative reviews about) and made it the same price as the Multiwatt.
The sounds in the demos, especially Fluff's, were not impressive.
Don't see the improvement over a Multiwatt. I'd like to hear it compared to a MW and a Rev F.
Mr. Willy
Well-known member
I had a 94 small logo Dual Rectifier that had been moded for an adjustable bias. That thing sounded killer. I ran it with EL34s. Wish I still had it.
fusedbrain
Well-known member
Typically, in almost all amps, "presence" is indeed part of the NFB circuit.
The control Mesa has labled "presence" on the red channel is really a hi cut filter between the treble wiper and the master vol. The pot is wired backwards so that as you turn it up, you get less cut, or more "presence". Just Mesa playing fast and loose with the wording.
In the high gain modes I mentioned, there is a relay that opens and disconnects the NFB path from the OPT to the PI.
In most amps with presence and resonance controls, the negative feedback path is:
transformer impedance tap > resonance potentiometer and cap > NFB resistor > PI tail, and the presence control is connected to the junction of the NFB / PI tail.
With the resonance control at zero, the NFB passes to the NFB resistor and PI tail unaffected. As you turn the resonance up, more and more of the NFB signal is shunted through the resonance cap, cutting bass out of the NFB loop. Taking bass out of the NFB loop means less bass gets cancelled at the PI, leaving more bass in the signal to the power tubes.
The presence control works the same way. The presence control adjusts how much NFB signal is sent through the presence cap to ground, removing hi end from the NFB loop, and leaving more high end to pass to the power tubes.
Unless the NFB resistor is replaced with a variable pot, the amount of NFB in the amp is always the same, notwithstanding how much bass or treble is shaved off with the presence and resonance controls.
Or in the case of the Recto's, if a relay disconnects the NFB path, then there's no NFB at all.
Hope that makes sense
Monomyth
Well-known member
Markedman
Well-known member
Is it just me or does anyone wonder why a Rectifier gets compared to a SLO? Based on tone, they don't sound anywhere similar at all. They might share some DNA but they don't sound like each other. If it is just a resistor that's different, that's enough to make it different. I'll hear a Rectifier, and can hear that that is a Rectifier, it maybe the most recognizable guitar tone ever. I can't do that with a SLO.
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Faded Abyss
Active member
Typically, in almost all amps, "presence" is indeed part of the NFB circuit.
The control Mesa has labled "presence" on the red channel is really a hi cut filter between the treble wiper and the master vol. The pot is wired backwards so that as you turn it up, you get less cut, or more "presence". Just Mesa playing fast and loose with the wording.
In the high gain modes I mentioned, there is a relay that opens and disconnects the NFB path from the OPT to the PI.
In most amps with presence and resonance controls, the negative feedback path is:
transformer impedance tap > resonance potentiometer and cap > NFB resistor > PI tail, and the presence control is connected to the junction of the NFB / PI tail.
With the resonance control at zero, the NFB passes to the NFB resistor and PI tail unaffected. As you turn the resonance up, more and more of the NFB signal is shunted through the resonance cap, cutting bass out of the NFB loop. Taking bass out of the NFB loop means less bass gets cancelled at the PI, leaving more bass in the signal to the power tubes.
The presence control works the same way. The presence control adjusts how much NFB signal is sent through the presence cap to ground, removing hi end from the NFB loop, and leaving more high end to pass to the power tubes.
Unless the NFB resistor is replaced with a variable pot, the amount of NFB in the amp is always the same, notwithstanding how much bass or treble is shaved off with the presence and resonance controls.
Or in the case of the Recto's, if a relay disconnects the NFB path, then there's no NFB at all.
Hope that makes sense
it kinda makes sense. A lot to wrap my mind around because there’s so much going on at once but you did a good job of explaining the layout. Are you a tech or a builder? This is past nerd level lol
Achilles
Active member
N
Nigel
Guest
I wonder what it sounds like with some Sylania 6CA7’s in variac mode with EL-34 bias. Mesa always has their bias so cold.
Just got my first OS Recto cab, need a head for it now. This looks promising, but fwiw there are so many great rectos out there on the used market...it’s like buying cars.
Just got my first OS Recto cab, need a head for it now. This looks promising, but fwiw there are so many great rectos out there on the used market...it’s like buying cars.
JCDenton6
Active member
RaceU4her
Well-known member
wow, sounds a million times better with 6L6 and like a proper recto.
Wizard of Ozz
Well-known member
I never like EL34s in Rectos. Not sure who started this stupid idea. They always sound better 6L6GCS tubes. If you want boosted mids, buy a Marshall or M-derivative amp.