OT: pistol shooters, need some advice

[JackBootedThug]

your a bad mofo with that 45 john!

 

[zepman]

your a bad mofo with that 45 john!

I fired that gun for the first time when I was 7 and have been shooting it regular since then My Dad was a 30 year Marine and he wanted us boys to be ready to help him make war if needed

 

[JackBootedThug]

it was a marine that talked me into going with the 45! he said he dropped the hammer on quite a few at iwo and other places. said they went down like getting hit with a sledgehammer.

 

[Oblivion DC]

The Sig Sauer 226 .40 cal. is a FINE handgun.
I can't think of one that could actually outperform it.

Glock makes a very reliable .40 cal as well. I just
personally don't think it performs as well as the
Sig.

+1 on this.

As for a shotgun: Not to be argumentative but the difference between the shotgun and the handgun in penetration of sheet rock walls is hardly noticeable. If over-penetration is an issue you can buy specialty ammo (glaser safety slugs come to mind, among others) specifically designed for environments like yours.

The only issues I have with the shotgun are:
1. That it's easier to take a long gun away from a person than it is to take away a pistol.
2. If you are in the position where you have someone covered with the shotgun and they have ceased doing whatever it was they were doing - you've got to keep them covered and try to use the phone to call the police at the same time. This is harder to do with a long gun than with a pistol, even more if you are the average sized female.
3. The distances that you would be using a weapon inside the house, anywhere from 4 to 12 feet, isn't enough for the shot to spread to any substantial degree from a standard 18" barrel.
4. If recoil is an issue for the shooter, the shotgun might not be the way to go.
5. If weight is an issue for the shooter, the shotgun might not be the way to go.

I'd never advise someone to do a house clearing on their own. But if you think there's someone in your house and you need to get to another room (to round up your loved ones, for instance) you really don't want to turn a corner leading with a shotgun. If someone closes with you and you can't bring the shotgun to bear it's worse than useless, especially if they happen to have a pistol or a knife.

The shotgun is a great weapon and is really useful a lot of the time but it isn't always the best tool for the job.

/my .02 cents

 

[Code001]

1. The enemy should never get that close.
2. Everyone should have industrial strength zip ties that the cops use for makeshift handcuffs. Use them on the legs and feet. They can be used with only 1 hand.
3. But it still spreads more than a handgun and rifle round will. Any advantage is a good advantage.
4 and 5 and true. You'll just have to man-up on those areas.

 

[TimLyons]

I'm not going to recommend anything to anyone in the way of firearms, but here's what I use (and plan to get) personally.

Right now I only have a Norinco 213 - single stack 9mm. It's small, it's easy to conceal (for when I get my permit), it was dirt cheap and it's designed after the Browning 1903 (essentially it's a 9mm version of the Tokarev TT-33, the gun from "Hard Boiled") with some Soviet modifications to the design, then manufactured by the people who arm the Chinese army. It's made to be kicked around and still work, and so far I've seen no evidence to the contrary. It's no .45, but a 9mm JHP will kill them just as dead.

In a couple months I'm going to get a Saiga 12ga - a semi-auto 12-gauge designed to be akin to the AK-47. As such, it also ALWAYS FIRES, and I can't argue with a magazine fed shotgun. Slap a pistol grip on it, change out some of the parts to make the ATF happy (since a certain percentage of the gun has to be US made if it's an assault weapon, and once you add the pistol grip, it's an assault weapon according to the ATF).

The next pistol I get, however, will be more of a fun gun - a CZ52. Fires the same round as true TT-33s, which is a 7.62x25mm bottleneck pistol round. It can defeat body armor. For when underpenetration is a problem.

No matter what, though, no matter what: ALWAYS HAVE A GOOD LIGHT. This is probably common sense. You always want to check your targets to make sure you don't hit someone you don't want to. The asshole may see you coming as a result, but it's better than shooting your loved one because they happened to go see what was making noise as well. Plus, if you get something like a Surefire, you can temporarily blind the intruder, making your chances of having to fire a shot even less, which is the ultimate goal.

 

[Cowinacape]

If you want something for home defense, you don't want a handgun. You want a shotgun.

+1! With a HG for home defense, penetration won't be your problem, over penetration will (as it relates to this topic anyways ) a bullet from a handgun inside of a house can/will very easily leave your house, and find it's way into a neighbors house, shotgun with a very light bird load, will help minimize the over penetration. Remember most distances in any encounter within a home are going to happen at close to touching distance, if not closer.

It's good to take care of you and your own, but once you fire a bullet, you are responsible for it, for the entire time it is in flight. I'm not saying don't do it, far from it! Do some reading first though, look up things like the Strasbourg (I am spelling it wrong) goat tests, where the FBI and such tested several different calibers of ammunition, when they made their move from .38's to 10mm's before going over to 9mm's. Good reading for anyone considering the subject of home defense.

One other piece of advice, if you should ever feel the need to grab you gun, because you feel there is an intruder in the house, always dial 911 first, You don't have to do anything else, dial 911 and leave the phone off the hook, you have now have an instant record of being in some sort of peril/ emergency situation, requiring immediate assistance. May seem stupid, but it can help to cover you ass if you shoot the neighbors cat - it happens

 

[Code001]

May seem stupid, but it can help to cover you ass if you shoot the neighbors cat - it happens

Sounds like you may have some experience in this field.

 

[Digital Jams]

Sorry Gary but if you are in a strangers house and the sound of a shotgun having a round chambered does not scare the crap out of you well then that person is one cool customer or totally flipped out on drugs and does not care.

 

[Copperhead]

OK
The first thing you should do is take a couple classes at your local shooting range. The first being basic gun safety and handling, the second being self-defense, concealed carry type of class. Many of these classes are taught by law enforcement people and are very informative. If after learning to safely use a handgun, and being fully aware of the legal aspects of shooting a person, and you are morally OK with killing a person in self-defense, then you should find a handgun. You may end up with two, one for her, one for you. The most important thing is finding a gun you can accurately shoot in a panic situation. A .38 that you can place a couple of shots quickly on target is far better than a .44 that you miss with. Shot placement is king, and everybody's confidence level with a certain weapon is going to be different.
Finally, practice, practice, practice!
I am a concealed weapons permit holder in AZ.
I always carry either my Glock 30, .45acp or my S&W 657 Mountain Gun, .41 Magnum.

 

[Code001]

Surprise attacks > making useless noise that reveals your location.

BTW, I'm going to disagree about those shoot-me lights. I personally dislike them as they give away your position in a fire-fight. Hence why I call them "shoot-me" lights. I can easily see the pros and cons of them, but I prefer to not use them. Lasers are pretty useless too, as you can only zero them in for a specific range. They won't be that accurate when you're closer/further away from the target.

If you buy a tactical light for your weapon, be sure to use it properly. Do NOT leave it on all the time. What you want to do is quickly turn it on and off, scanning the area. Be sure to be random about it as well. If the bad guy can see a pattern to your scanning, you're in trouble. You also want to be sure you're behind cover, yet changing your area as you scan as well so the bad guy cannot possibly see what position you're in.

 

[kannibul]

Hey guys, I'm looking to purchase a handgun for myself and my fiance to shoot, both at the range and for home defense. We've both shot 9mm berettas (basically m92f), and I'm looking at 9mm, 10mm, or .40 for stopping power as well as penetration, plus I want her to still be able to shoot it. Am I looking at the right calibers first of all, and secondly, any recommendations for firearms in those calibers? Thanks!

Jeff

I have a Springfield XD9 Service.

It's a great weapon. Reliable, has a grip safety, trigger safety (ala GLOCK), and a drop safety/firing pin block, and the 1911 style grip. Also has a loaded chamber indicator, and a firing pin cock indicator. It's as accurate as I am, which is enough to put anyone down that comes in my house unauthorized.

I will also say this until my face is blue:

1) Shot placement is PARAMOUNT over any caliber. If you are accurate and have great shot placement under stress, it doesn't matter what you have as a firearm.
2) 1-Shot "Stopping power" is WAY over-rated. No one in a situation where they have to fire, EVER fires one shot.
3) Ballistics Gel tests are overrated. People have these things call bones, which happen to protect the areas that a 1-shot-kill would have to penetrate. Ballistics gel simulates the stomach/gut region...

Since this is a gun for your wife to shoot as well, a 9mm would be ideal. As bad as it is to reference a tradgedy, the Virginia Campus jackass was using a 9mm and a .22 - both of which gets slapped around on the internet with people saying that they aren't powerful enough to kill someone.

 

[kannibul]

If you want something for home defense, you don't want a handgun. You want a shotgun.

As much as I agree with that - I bought a pistol instead. The primary reason is that there aren't as many places that allow shotguns for practice as there are for pistols.

Plus, a pistol you can conceal/carry with a permit.

 

[Digital Jams]

Well surprise is going to be out of the question when my 80 pound living weapon, Vixen the GSD, is going nuts to take a chunk out of the guy anyways.

Man some of you guys are speaking like you have special forces or Marine backgrounds, anyone with prior service?

 

[kannibul]

If you want something for home defense, you don't want a handgun. You want a shotgun.

I won't argue this at all as it is SOLID advice with only one
caveat though, IF you buy a pump shotgun, don't count
on the sound of the racking action to scare people. It only lets
them know you have a firearm and they could very well shoot
though your floor or walls first and injure or kill one of your
family members.

The sound had nothing to do with my response. Instead, the spread of the round and the velocity of the pellets had a factor when it came to NOT injuring loved ones with possible stray bullets that might occur with handgun and/or rifle rounds. A shotgun is, by far, the best home self-defense weapon as it has the least possibility of going through walls and has the greatest possibility of hitting your target with the least amount of aiming when compared to other mediums.

Sorry to argue, but there have been many tests done that show shotgun rounds (buck shot, even bird shot) will travel through many walls. Hollowpoint Pistol rounds generally won't due to disspating more energy mushrooming out.

EDIT: Meant to say Hollowpoint Pistol rounds generally won't penetrate AS MANY walls due to...

 

[Code001]

Sorry to argue, but there have been many tests done that show shotgun rounds (buck shot, even bird shot) will travel through many walls. Hollowpoint Pistol rounds generally won't due to disspating more energy mushrooming out.

If you can find them, I'd love to read them.

 

[Digital Jams]

So now some of you guys have trained with live ammo in a closed building situation?

You are some bad assed mofos!!!!!

I used to have bb gun fights sometimes....freaking hurt

 

[Code001]

Man some of you guys are speaking like you have special forces or Marine backgrounds, anyone with prior service?

I grew up with this shit so it's second nature. Guns have been around me for as long as I can recall. My father was always an avid collector and it became inherited in me, I guess.

 

[Code001]

So now some of you guys have trained with live ammo in a closed building situation?

You are some bad assed mofos!!!!!

I used to have bb gun fights sometimes....freaking hurt

They have "tactical" ranges you can do to and practice stuff like this.

 

[riffy]

Well surprise is going to be out of the question when my 80 pound living weapon, Vixen the GSD, is going nuts to take a chunk out of the guy anyways.

Man some of you guys are speaking like you have special forces or Marine backgrounds, anyone with prior service?

Not me. I did however learn quite a bit about fighting with an Army Ranger. He was a tunnel rat in Vietnam. I learned a TON from him. Also, still shoot with him at VMI a couple of times a month.

Squealie knows who I am talkin' bout too...lol