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VonBonfire
Well-known member
He keeps calling me a fool and idiot and insisting he won.
Thumbpicker
Well-known member
No quite the opposite.
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VonBonfire
Well-known member
You couldn't even figure out whether you believed icons were a heresy or not then you said you celebrate christmas after bashing me about stuff "not being in duh bible" so what the heck are you talking about?
Thumbpicker
Well-known member
Icons are a heresy if you "venerate them" as you would put it.
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
It MAY not be a heresy if you just like them as a work of art and that's it.
It's shaky ground.
Thumbpicker
Well-known member
What do you think @MontiCristo
311splawndude
Well-known member
Thumbpicker
Well-known member
Monday here!He's still at church
MontiCristo
Well-known member
Was at church, yes.He's still at church
@Thumbpicker absolutely “orthodoxy” clearly violates the 2nd commandment.
But they obviously don’t care what is in scripture so I’m not surprised they worship idols. Our God is a jealous God indeed and they will suffer the consequences for sure.
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VonBonfire
Well-known member
Reverence just means to show respect, so you have to twist it into meaning "worship" to make your argument. Do you have photos of loved ones on your wall? Is that idolatry? What about the temple and it's furnishings?
For example:
- The Brazen Sea was a large bronze basin about 15 feet in diameter and over 7.5 feet high (higher than our mommies and daddies). It rested on the backs of 12 bronze OXEN.
- Has 2 CHERUBIMS on both ends of the cover, facing each other, with wings spread upward overshadowing the cover
So your claim is kind of contradictory to the very word you're drawing it from or it was God almighty commanding them to make idols cause it's "an image of something in heaven or on earth"? Stylized images of saints lining the walls of church aren't something anyone there worships but it does call to mind the saints and martyrs who gave up much for the faith and the holy path we are called to follow as christians.. This is why when someone tries to spin it as some evil negative I just disregard them because they really don't know what they are talking about. *shrugs
MontiCristo
Well-known member
" Do you have photos of loved ones on your wall? Is that idolatry?"
uh, not a church, in a church service, around a church, in a worship meeting, prayer meeting, or anything of the sort.
why - because it's against scripture and Jesus is enough.
uh, not a church, in a church service, around a church, in a worship meeting, prayer meeting, or anything of the sort.
why - because it's against scripture and Jesus is enough.
MontiCristo
Well-known member
as him if it would be ok to put a picture up of Michael Jordan, or Joe Montana in the church?
curious his thoughts on that.
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VonBonfire
Well-known member
So why will protestant churches often have pictures of church staff or or plaques with the name of generous donors engraved on the wall since Jesus is enough? Detail to me how that would be any different than a stylized image of an author of the gospel? Or detail to me how the photo is not a sin, but a stylized image of a gospel author who lived before the age of photography is wrong?
If Jesus is enough, why do you have pictures on your wall at home and how is that not idolatry since the commandment you are quoting is general, no idols, no graven images? Aren't you putting the image of that person in a place of respect by hanging it in your home?
Explain the temple furnishings of the bible and describe to me how it's wrong to have things that call to mind the remembrance of our Lord? If Jesus is enough then is a cross necklace or other christian jewlery idolatry? If Jesus is enough then why not just have a book with only the words in red from the gospels in it? Wouldn't that be enough? I believe it would be enough, but the story is much richer than that, kind of like math is more than the 2+2=4.
MadAsAHatter
Well-known member
As someone who's been watching with this train wreck of a thread and really doesn't care what faith someone practices, this really feels like a giant stretch to prove your religion is superior.
But I have my own views of faith and religion so what do I know?
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VonBonfire
Well-known member
Well, we are discussing "THE way" not "the ways" so if you aren't into a theological discussion I guess it doesn't matter, and probably isn't that interesting, since you say you don't care what faith someone practices.As someone who's been watching with this train wreck of a thread and really doesn't care what faith someone practices, this really feels like a giant stretch to prove your religion is superior.
But I have my own views of faith and religion so what do I know?
MadAsAHatter
Well-known member
Shit... I didn't realize this was the flat earth thread. I thought this was the proof of God thread.
I guess both threads are now a religion pissing contest LOL!
I guess both threads are now a religion pissing contest LOL!
MontiCristo
Well-known member
you are right @MadAsAHatter this isn't the right thread for this discussion. My fault.Shit... I didn't realize this was the flat earth thread. I thought this was the proof of God thread.
I guess both threads are now a religion pissing contest LOL!
This is the "proof the earth is round" thread.
So In keeping with that, I'm hesitant to present scripture to @VonBonfire because he clearly doesn't submit to the authority of the bible, but the bible is clear that the earth is a sphere.
He is a self proposed "orthodox Christian" (never mind the fact that there is no such thing as a Christian who doesn't believe the bible), but I digress.
'It is He who inhabits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; It is He who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to inhabit. '
Isaiah 40:22
acceptance
Well-known member
Thumbpicker
Well-known member
Well @VonBonfire and @acceptance I’ve got you both now… if you want to believe in a circle Earth and describe it as a planar object then you can’t ever dig a hole because planar objects have no depth. They are two dimensional. So it’s either a sphere or a cylinder. Of course we know it’s not a cylinder so again you are being absurd and imposing your literalist interpretation on a book that was not written as a western science textbook to be interpreted that way.
MadAsAHatter
Well-known member
I know there's a common misconception that the bible says the earth is flat, but didn't realize it actually had a passages about the shape. I had to do a quick search to look more into this one. I suppose "circle of the earth" could maybe be interpreted as a flat circle. Though most references I found said that Isaiah used the Hebrew word "khug" here which in most languages translates to sphere. (edit: references said khug in hebrew literally means sphere, but could be translated to circle or sphere in other languages). English translation is the one that uses circle for this passage. Khug translating to sphere also seems to be backed up by pointing out other instances where it's used translating more specifically to sphere.
Another thing I found interesting is some references to Job 26:7-9 (Mainly 7). It was suggested that "empty space" is referencing and equivalent to astronomical space.
7 He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing. 8 He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight. 9 He covers the face of the full moon, spreading his clouds over it.
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MontiCristo
Well-known member
well said, it's beneath anyone's intellectual level to even argue the sphere / circle.
The fact is the biblical authors knew the earth wasn't flat and it was spheroidal.
again, I don't even understand why this is a discussion.