Proof the Earth is round

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VonBonfire said:
I think a deep dive might change your mind. Even you said "they will be cast into the lake of fire". That's the final judgment, not the current state of those who have died outside of Christ. In saying as much as you have it would imply someone who was undecided, or had never heard the gospel, is also condemned to the same fate since they didn't believe in Christ, no?
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I agree with your "lake of fire" assessment, I didn't say that @Thumbpicker did.

Protestants see this as indication that judgement is rendered swiftly. (the scripture below)

'And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, '

Hebrews 9:27
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VonBonfire said:
Do you think it's possible to lose your salvation?
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I can provide evidence that the scriptures teach that it is not possible to lose your salvation.
what is the orthodoxy position on this, I am not aware.
 
Thumbpicker said:
No it's scriptural.
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Not sure about that. But it's goofy to suggest that someone who gave up Christianity was never really Christian. Or are you saying that they would be saved even if they became a Satanist for example?
 
MontiCristo said:
I can provide evidence that the scriptures teach that it is not possible to lose your salvation.
what is the orthodoxy position on this, I am not aware.
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Yes and while this is true the real hard thing is to make sure you are truly a Christian. To me it's sometimes a little circular. However, I have no doubt I am a Christian despite my many shortfalls and daily sinfulness. I trust in the promises of God.
 
acceptance said:
Not sure about that. But it's goofy to suggest that someone who gave up Christianity was never really Christian. Or are you saying that they would be saved even if they became a Satanist for example?
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not goofy. Biblical

'They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they were of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out , so that it would be manifested that they all are not of us. '

1 John 2:19
 
acceptance said:
Not sure about that. But it's goofy to suggest that someone who gave up Christianity was never really Christian. Or are you saying that they would be saved even if they became a Satanist for example?
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I think if you truly repented God would forgive you even from that however @MontiCristo might know better?

If you no longer care about God and what you have done or have no feeling of being sorry at all then maybe I'd have some doubts.
 
MontiCristo said:
Protestants see this as indication that judgement is rendered swiftly. (the scripture below)
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Hebrews 9 27 doesn't say expressly that it's rendered swiftly. Revelation seems to put the final judgment at a future time.

MontiCristo said:
I can provide evidence that the scriptures teach that it is not possible to lose your salvation.
what is the orthodoxy position on this, I am not aware.
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In orthodoxy it is completely possible to lose your salvation. Plenty of people attend church on sunday and then live like a child of the devil the other six days per week. All sin puts us in danger of judgment thus the need for a LIFETIME of repentance and prayer.
 
Thumbpicker said:
I think if you truly repented God would forgive you even from that however @MontiCristo might know better?
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those that belong to Christ ultimately do not leave Him, because it is the inner working of the Lord that keeps them.
As is evident from the text below (and many more)

'For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus. '

Philippians 1:6
 
VonBonfire said:
Hebrews 9 27 doesn't say expressly that it's rendered swiftly. Revelation seems to put the final judgment at a future time.


In orthodoxy it is completely possible to lose your salvation. Plenty of people attend church on sunday and then live like a child of the devil the other six days per week. All sin puts us in danger of judgment thus the need for a LIFETIME of repentance and prayer.
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I understand, thank you for the clarification.
Protestants would say that those are not true Christians and we base that on God's word here :

1John 4
4Everyone who does sin also does lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5And you know that He was manifested in order to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or has come to know Him. 7Little children, let no one deceive you. The one who does righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8The one who does sin is of the devil, because the devil sins from the beginning. The Son of God was manifested for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9Everyone who has been born of God does not sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifested: everyone who does not do righteousness is not of God, as well as the one who does not love his brother.
 
However @MontiCristo I was asking was there hope for a satanist if they repented. I think so... but they'd have to very sincerely repent. However we all have to do that.
 
Thumbpicker said:
However @MontiCristo I was asking was there hope for a satanist if they repented. I think so... but they'd have to very sincerely repent. However we all have to do that.
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absolutely there is hope, everyone who is outside of Christ is of satan. There are just those that are more bold than others.
There is only one unforgivable sin.

Mark 3:28-29
28 “Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; 29but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”
 
MontiCristo said:
not goofy. Biblical

'They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they were of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out , so that it would be manifested that they all are not of us. '

1 John 2:19
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What makes you believe that passage is speaking of the situation I mentioned — IE a person who sincerely believes but then apostatizes?
 
MontiCristo said:
I understand, thank you for the clarification.
Protestants would say that those are not true Christians and we base that on God's word here :

1John 4
4Everyone who does sin also does lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5And you know that He was manifested in order to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or has come to know Him. 7Little children, let no one deceive you. The one who does righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8The one who does sin is of the devil, because the devil sins from the beginning. The Son of God was manifested for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9Everyone who has been born of God does not sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifested: everyone who does not do righteousness is not of God, as well as the one who does not love his brother.
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I have a bit of a problem with that passage because Paul himself agonised over his sinfulness and not just past sinfulness. He sinned even after the road to Damascus. I think this one needs to be interpreted as a change of behavior needs to be manifested in your life because plainly scripture cannot contradict scripture.
 
acceptance said:
What makes you believe that passage is speaking of the situation I mentioned — IE a person who sincerely believes but then apostatizes?
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oh man, here we go again. It's there in plain english, but for context. Here is the whole passage.

18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared. From this we know that it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they were of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be manifested that they all are not of us. 20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. 21I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth. 22Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
 
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