Proof the Earth is round

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Thumbpicker said:
I have a bit of a problem with that passage because Paul himself agonised over his sinfulness and not just past sinfulness. He sinned even after the road to Damascus. I think this one needs to be interpreted as a change of behavior needs to be manifested in your life because plainly scripture cannot contradict scripture.
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the point is, Christians are overwhelmed and grieved by sin. They don't make a habit of sinning, if they do, they aren't of Christ.
 
MontiCristo said:
oh man, here we go again. It's there in plain english, but for context. Here is the whole passage.

18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared. From this we know that it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they were of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be manifested that they all are not of us. 20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. 21I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth. 22Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
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Yeah, thanks, I already read it.
 
acceptance said:
What if the person chooses so? Don't you believe in free will?
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the words "free will" are found nowhere in the bible.

i think there is something about a "free will offering" when giving, but nothing whatsoever about the "free will' you describe.
 
acceptance said:
What if the person chooses so? Don't you believe in free will?
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No... I don't believe salvation is free will. It's nothing we do. It's totally God's gift. Our grace and salvation is nothing we do "so no-one can boast" I believe in predestination as hard as that concept is. I don't always like the implications of it but I believe it.
 
MontiCristo said:
I understand, thank you for the clarification.
Protestants would say that those are not true Christians and we base that on God's word here :

1John 4
4Everyone who does sin also does lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5And you know that He was manifested in order to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or has come to know Him. 7Little children, let no one deceive you. The one who does righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8The one who does sin is of the devil, because the devil sins from the beginning. The Son of God was manifested for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9Everyone who has been born of God does not sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifested: everyone who does not do righteousness is not of God, as well as the one who does not love his brother.
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It calls to my mind the parable of the tares and the wheat. They appear similar, therefore aren't to be uprooted until harvest, when it can be determined which is a tare and which is wheat. So it would seem that someone could conceivably walk a "christian" life outwardly (and perhaps in their mind inwardly) and still not be saved. The wheat and the tares. The sheep and the goats. As it says "Lord Lord didn't we cast out demons in your name and work many miracles" and he says "away from me ye that work iniquity, I never knew you". I think it is quite conceivable that someone who feels themselves "saved" won't be. Again, it is a wlk, day to day, in orthodoxy, to follow the narrow path i.e "the Way".
 
acceptance said:
Yeah, thanks, I already read it.
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i'm not trying to deceive you man. What I am presenting to you is what the bible teaches.
Like I say, I'm not trying to be rude or ugly, I recognize I was before.
Whether you believe is between you and God, but please don't imply the bible doesn't say things it does.
I understand there are areas that need interpretation, but many are assertive and 100% clear.
 
VonBonfire said:
It calls to my mind the parable of the tares and the wheat. They appear similar, therefore aren't to be uprooted until harvest, when it can be determined which is a tare and which is wheat. So it would seem that someone could conceivably walk a "christian" life outwardly (and perhaps in their mind inwardly) and still not be saved. The wheat and the tares. The sheep and the goats. As it says "Lord Lord didn't we cast out demons in your name and work many miracles" and he says "away from me ye that work iniquity, I never knew you". I think it is quite conceivable that someone who feels themselves "saved" won't be. Again, it is a wlk, day to day, in orthodoxy, to follow the narrow path i.e "the Way".
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completely agree.
why couldn't we agree on more before? LOL
 
MontiCristo said:
i'm not trying to deceive you man. What I am presenting to you is what the bible teaches.
Like I say, I'm not trying to be rude or ugly, I recognize I was before.
Whether you believe is between you and God, but please don't imply the bible doesn't say things it does.
I understand there are areas that need interpretation, but many are assertive and 100% clear.
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The problem is that you are a simple thinker and suppose the whole world, the bible and so on are likewise simple. That passage doesn't speak to the situation I described.
 
MontiCristo said:
Do not call us messed up @acceptance , you are a satanist. It is you who is messed up.
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I have prayed for @acceptance. You need to repent very badly @acceptance and get on your knees and ask God to change you save you mate. The consequences of being a satanist are terrible to think about.
 
VonBonfire said:
I don't think very many denominations subscribe to "once saved always saved" doctrine.
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you're not wrong, most believe that you can lose your salvation because they are "anthropocentric" in nature as opposed to Reformed theology which is "theocentric" in nature.

meaning it's God who saves not man.

the bottom line is and I truly believe you have to know this is - if we could lose our salvation, every one of us would lose it every day.
 
MontiCristo said:
you're not wrong, most believe that you can lose your salvation because they are "anthropocentric" in nature as opposed to Reformed theology which is "theocentric" in nature.

meaning it's God who saves not man.

the bottom line is and I truly believe you have to know this is - if we could lose our salvation, every one of us would lose it every day.
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Yes but that's why I found that passage in John you posted difficult. Because plainly we still sin every day.

That passage needs to be interpreted in context plainly.
 
acceptance said:
I don't think so. I think it is speaking about people that pretend to be Christian for their own benefit, either status or money, etc.
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wrong. What biblical hermeneutic are you using to come to that conclusion?
do you know what eisegesis or hermeneutics is?
 
Thumbpicker said:
Yes but that's why I found that passage in John you posted difficult. Because plainly we still sin every day.

That passage needs to be interpreted in context plainly.
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it's not difficult to understand if you apply hermeneutics and allow scripture to interpret scripture.
it simply those who habitually sin, intentionally.
 
MontiCristo said:
wrong. What biblical hermeneutic are you using to come to that conclusion?
do you know what eisegesis or hermeneutics is?
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Unless he wants to repent and if he wants to be a satanist - he will twist everything like his master. A very dangerous individual.
 
@acceptance word of the day
eisegesis - what he practices every day of his life.
 
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