Proof there is a God

VonBonfire said:
Orthodoxy holds the scriptures and holy tradition together in harmony. Protestantism pretends like the first 200 years of the church (which came before NT scripture as a whole) doesn't exist and is not valid yet their own pastors attend bible college and generally part of that is a study of the early church fathers and their writings. If you've only attended protestant services and then attended an orthodox one you would feel like they were two different religions because in many ways, they are. In protestantism the sermon is the central part of the service. In orthodoxy communion with Christ is what the entire service revolves around. A long sermon in orthodoxy would be like 15 minutes. We are busy worshipping. The protestants just talk mostly.
Click to expand...
not correct.
they are not in harmony.
scripture denies mary was sinless.
denies faith + works
denies the worship or invocation of dead saints
denies relics etc..
 
MontiCristo said:
continuing :

Romans 3: 23

23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Click to expand...
Okay, let's go with this as the other was a NT verse quoting the OT and that would complicate matters. It appears to be a contradiction of the teaching that Mary is sinless. I defer to Von as to how the Orthodox church harmonizes this scripture with their teaching.
 
VonBonfire said:
Orthodoxy holds the scriptures and holy tradition together in harmony. Protestantism pretends like the first 200 years of the church (which came before NT scripture as a whole) doesn't exist and is not valid yet their own pastors attend bible college and generally part of that is a study of the early church fathers and their writings. If you've only attended protestant services and then attended an orthodox one you would feel like they were two different religions because in many ways, they are. In protestantism the sermon is the central part of the service. In orthodoxy communion with Christ is what the entire service revolves around. A long sermon in orthodoxy would be like 15 minutes. We are busy worshipping. The protestants just talk mostly.
Click to expand...
this is just nonsense. 200 years my white irish butt.

the apostles travelled far and wide spreading the gospel of Christ and we have actual dated copies of all the gospels that were much younger than 200 years.
 
acceptance said:
Okay, let's go with this as the other was a NT verse quoting the OT and that would complicate matters. It appears to be a contradiction of the teaching that Mary is sinless. I defer to Von as to how the Orthodox church harmonizes this scripture with their teaching.
Click to expand...
"i defer to von"

insect.
 
acceptance said:
Okay, let's go with this as the other was a NT verse quoting the OT and that would complicate matters. It appears to be a contradiction of the teaching that Mary is sinless. I defer to Von as to how the Orthodox church harmonizes this scripture with their teaching.
Click to expand...
yes let's

@VonBonfire how does the "orthodox' church reconcile the clear teaching of scripture that all humans are sinful yet mary isn't?
and what is your explanation for why the New Testament contains nothing of Mary's sinlessness or "holiness".
 
MontiCristo said:
"i defer to von"

insect.
Click to expand...
good-evil.gif
 
acceptance said:
Okay, let's go with this as the other was a NT verse quoting the OT and that would complicate matters. It appears to be a contradiction of the teaching that Mary is sinless. I defer to Von as to how the Orthodox church harmonizes this scripture with their teaching.
Click to expand...
She was born with a sin nature and needs Christ like all of us on account of that. But she chose not to sin. As scripture states, she was full of grace. Grace is defined as "do honor or credit to" and "courteous goodwill". In jewish law, which would be important to determining "sinlessness" at the time, a woman isn't held responsible for "sinful" actions until the age of 12 and a boy at 13 (they call it a bar mitzvah now). Since Mary conceived and bore Christ at 13 then we see she MAYBE had to go sinless for up to a year, possibly less. It is no more difficult to believe that than it is to believe in a virgin birth yet our resident protestant authority probably won't be that perceptive.
 
VonBonfire said:
She was born with a sin nature and needs Christ like all of us on account of that. But she chose not to sin. As scripture states, she was full of grace. Grace is defined as "do honor or credit to" and "courteous goodwill". In jewish law, which would be important to determining "sinlessness" at the time, a woman isn't held responsible for "sinful" actions until the age of 12 and a boy at 13 (they call it a bar mitzvah now). Since Mary conceived and bore Christ at 13 then we see she MAYBE had to go sinless for up to a year, possibly less. It is no more difficult to believe that than it is to believe in a virgin birth yet our resident protestant authority probably won't be that perceptive.
Click to expand...
Bible doesn't say that like she was somehow sinless or never sinned. Catholics try this whole "full of grace" bs on for size.

Luke 1:28​

​

28 The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”

Had to go sinless for up to a year haha - yeah she went cold turkey like a junky. What a crock. No support for this at all in the Bible. You church just makes up rubbish as it goes along.

Re: not hard to believe this that and the other... Well sure you can believe anything you like but unless it's Biblical you are choosing to believe falsehoods.
 
VonBonfire said:
She was born with a sin nature and needs Christ like all of us on account of that. But she chose not to sin. As scripture states, she was full of grace. Grace is defined as "do honor or credit to" and "courteous goodwill". In jewish law, which would be important to determining "sinlessness" at the time, a woman isn't held responsible for "sinful" actions until the age of 12 and a boy at 13 (they call it a bar mitzvah now). Since Mary conceived and bore Christ at 13 then we see she MAYBE had to go sinless for up to a year, possibly less. It is no more difficult to believe that than it is to believe in a virgin birth yet our resident protestant authority probably won't be that perceptive.
Click to expand...
So Orthodoxy doesn't teach that she died sinless, or what? I thought there was some question earlier about her death.
 
VonBonfire said:
She was born with a sin nature and needs Christ like all of us on account of that. But she chose not to sin. As scripture states, she was full of grace. Grace is defined as "do honor or credit to" and "courteous goodwill". In jewish law, which would be important to determining "sinlessness" at the time, a woman isn't held responsible for "sinful" actions until the age of 12 and a boy at 13 (they call it a bar mitzvah now). Since Mary conceived and bore Christ at 13 then we see she MAYBE had to go sinless for up to a year, possibly less. It is no more difficult to believe that than it is to believe in a virgin birth yet our resident protestant authority probably won't be that perceptive.
Click to expand...
where are you getting this information because it isn't in the bible?
what is the standard that validates this information?

further this is heresy.
The bible is clear that all have sinned, every single human and says nothing of mary's sinlessness.
in addition, if she hadn't sinned she would have no need for a savior.
This is pagan idolatry.
 
Thumbpicker said:
Bible doesn't say that like she was somehow sinless or never sinned. Catholics try this whole "full of grace" bs.
Click to expand...
So did Eve choose to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil or was she forced to?

So we can see from that question that sin is a choice. Mary, as the very mother of God, chose not to sin. Through a woman sin entered the world and through a woman we are redeemed. Through the tree we were condemned but by the tree of the cross we are redeemed. I guess this stuff is controversial to you guys but it's just SOP for us.
 
so @VonBonfire has real problem here.
where is the "harmony" he claims "orthodoxy" has with the New Testament, if the New Testament says absolutely nothing about mary being sinless?
 
w
VonBonfire said:
So did Eve choose to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil or was she forced to?

So we can see from that question that sin is a choice. Mary, as the very mother of God, chose not to sin. Through a woman sin entered the world and through a woman we are redeemed. Through the tree we were condemned but by the tree of the cross we are redeemed. I guess this stuff is controversial to you guys but it's just SOP for us.
Click to expand...
where are you getting this information, because it isn't found in the bible?
i thought you said orthodoxy and the bible were in harmony?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top