Question for the high wattage amp guys here about playing at home

[Bardagh]

I just wanna say my “tone circle” has been eerily similar to yours over the last 20 years… however on the IR comment: don’t assume all IR’s have that issue. Quite frankly, ML sound labs are just not that good, and he’s got some shady ness going on in how he represents his IR’s especially in his mikko plugin. I can’t prove it, but I have my guesses on that. But just because his are dark and murky, doesn’t mean all of them all. An IR, like a Kemper, is only as good as the guy who made it, and if you have similar tastes in tones. I would suggest shooting your own IR’s, much the same as you felt at home using your own real amp again.

Oh I am aware, totally, although I have found with various commercially available IR’s some degree of processing going on that, while maybe good for some purposes, bugs me personally.

I haven’t tried Ownhammer IR’s in a long time, and I know at least in marketing terms they’ve changed the way they do things a couple times, but I found their older offerings to have some kind of smoothness/darkness to them that you couldn’t dial out. Not as extreme as ML Soundlab shit but too much for me. I really want just raw cab>microphone>preamp in an IR.

On the other hand, ValhalIIR’s stuff sounds unprocessed to me.

I haven’t ever tried to make IR’s and I definitely should once I get some tones really nailed down. I have I guess 4 different projects I’m working on either by myself or with other people and none are really at the “record final, definitive versions of songs” stage yet.

 

[Smash]

Yes. But don't worry, no one needs that - in the room, or recording. You just need the user who joined today's ebook.

lol. when i commented, i didn't know i jumped in the middle of a battle. There are some strong opinions tied to bedroom players that use a lot of wattage. But to be fair, Dan, Are you published. cuz tone find is.. lol

 

[VESmedic]

+6db difference. +3b between a 50W and 100W.

20W is 115db. That just under a fire engine siren.

This idea you need 100W for a good high-gain tone at home is something I will absolutely have no problem dismissing as a myth. 100W was designed for stadiums with no monitors. Even amp manufacturers started making 50W versions for the studios. They have since figured out (read market pressures) to get into smaller wattage like 30 or 20, more suitable for... well everybody not playing in a stadium. Hence the OP.

There are loads of low-wattage high-gain tube amps on the market with people achieving exactly what you say they can't.

I know about your bottom-end argument and I disagree with it for the reasons I gave. The guitar is a mid-range instrument and high-gain metal happens to be mid-range. So this low-end point is moot.

So what's this mythic 100W rig we should all have then?

Sounds to me like you are conflating engineers who haven't been pressured into delivering sub 50W amps with the same tone with a need for 100W to get some sort of tone.

And there you go again… missing the point and going on and on about generalities. Yet at the same time, ruined your entire argument…


Let’s forget for the second that a 20 watt amp and a 100 watt amp are only a few decibels apart… it’s not about volume, it’s about the push and power of the power amp. Or is that not in your book either?

If they are only 3 db’s apart, why do manufacturers still make the big amps? I mean, they are all the same as you say, Right?

 

[Smash]

+6db difference. +3b between a 50W and 100W.

20W is 115db. That just under a fire engine siren.

This idea you need 100W for a good high-gain tone at home is something I will absolutely have no problem dismissing as a myth. 100W was designed for stadiums with no monitors. Even amp manufacturers started making 50W versions for the studios. They have since figured out (read market pressures) to get into smaller wattage like 30 or 20, more suitable for... well everybody not playing in a stadium. Hence the OP.

There are loads of low-wattage high-gain tube amps on the market with people achieving exactly what you say they can't.

I know about your bottom-end argument and I disagree with it for the reasons I gave. The guitar is a mid-range instrument and high-gain metal happens to be mid-range. So this low-end point is moot.

So what's this mythic 100W rig we should all have then?

Sounds to me like you are conflating engineers who haven't been pressured into delivering sub 50W amps with the same tone with a need for 100W to get some sort of tone.

I don't want to have a pissing match with you. I just have one question. You think a 20 watt amp has punch like a 100 watt amp?

 

[Smash]

And there you go again… missing the point and going on and on about generalities. Yet at the same time, ruined your entire argument…


Let’s forget for the second that a 20 watt amp and a 100 watt amp are only a few decibels apart… it’s not about volume, it’s about the push and power of the power amp. Or is that not in your book either?

If they are only 3 db’s apart, why do manufacturers still make the big amps? I mean, they are all the same as you say, Right?

what he is saying, Dr. Tone find, is pushing fucking air, hommie

 

[TheToneDig]

I don't want to have a pissing match with you. I just have one question. You think a 20 watt amp has punch like a 100 watt amp?

A 100W amp will beat a 20W side by side if the same make and model.

Your claim is that a 20W lacks balls and punch.

My claim is both have punch and 20W lacks nothing more than the +6db volume.

Sorry but that claim that 20W lacks balls is like saying you can handle a fire engine siren in your room.

That's it.

 

[Smash]

A 100W amp will beat a 20W side by side if the same make and model.

Your claim is that a 20W lacks balls and punch.

My claim is both have punch and 20W lacks nothing more than the +6db volume.

Sorry but that claim that 20W lacks balls is like saying you can handle a fire engine siren in your room.

That's it.

20 watts lack balls. I said it. I think you should have picked a different battle. Anyone that has been in the room with both knows this. You just let a lot of casual readers know your lack of experience

 

[DanTravis62]

And there you go again… missing the point and going on and on about generalities. Yet at the same time, ruined your entire argument…


Let’s forget for the second that a 20 watt amp and a 100 watt amp are only a few decibels apart… it’s not about volume, it’s about the push and power of the power amp. Or is that not in your book either?

If they are only 3 db’s apart, why do manufacturers still make the big amps? I mean, they are all the same as you say, Right?

Dont worry, I'm sure he'll change the subject to something completely unrelated to avoid the point you're very clearly making.

 

[DanTravis62]

+6db difference. +3b between a 50W and 100W.

20W is 115db. That just under a fire engine siren.

This idea you need 100W for a good high-gain tone at home is something I will absolutely have no problem dismissing as a myth. 100W was designed for stadiums with no monitors. Even amp manufacturers started making 50W versions for the studios. They have since figured out (read market pressures) to get into smaller wattage like 30 or 20, more suitable for... well everybody not playing in a stadium. Hence the OP.

There are loads of low-wattage high-gain tube amps on the market with people achieving exactly what you say they can't.

I know about your bottom-end argument and I disagree with it for the reasons I gave. The guitar is a mid-range instrument and high-gain metal happens to be mid-range. So this low-end point is moot.

So what's this mythic 100W rig we should all have then?

Sounds to me like you are conflating engineers who haven't been pressured into delivering sub 50W amps with the same tone with a need for 100W to get some sort of tone.

 

[Smash]

i have cranked 50 watt amps in my room and play regularly at 107-113 decibels. Decibels and low end punch are completetly different. Anyone that has been in front of a 4x12 knows that, bud.

 

[TheToneDig]

If they are only 3 db’s apart, why do manufacturers still make the big amps? I mean, they are all the same as you say, Right?

See, this is exactly the point I have been making. 100W is for stadiums and screaming fans and no monitors. Even Vox made a 100W head. The 4x12 was invented for this reason. The same amp engineers had lower wattage heads for the studio. Market pressures are why they are able to make them small again. The tone is not the wattage. It's the circuit. This should be evident from the great tones out of lower wattage circuits like Tweeds and Vox. Loads of headroom in 30W.

This idea you can't get the same distortion from lower wattage amps is mostly about amp designers deliberately avoiding making lower wattage amps because the market pressures weren't there. Now they are, so they have been getting on with it. This idea you can't get heavy modern metal tones from low wattage amps and cab sims was old 10 years ago let alone 2021.

 

[VESmedic]

Also… a mechanical federal Q packs more punch than an electronic federal Q, since we are talking fire trucks, something I know alittle about too. A mechanical Q pushes air, much like a real cab does, which makes it siren carry much farther and deeper than an electronic federal Q, which does not push air… even this comparison you made has faults in it!

 

[VESmedic]

See, this is exactly the point I have been making. 100W is for stadiums and screaming fans and no monitors. Even Vox made a 100W head. The 4x12 was invented for this reason. The same amp engineers had lower wattage heads for the studio. Market pressures are why they are able to make them small again. The tone is not the wattage. It's the circuit. This should be evident from the great tones out of lower wattage circuits like Tweeds and Vox. Loads of headroom in 30W.

This idea you can't get the same distortion from lower wattage amps is mostly about amp designers deliberately avoiding making lower wattage amps because the market pressures weren't there. Now they are, so they have been getting on with it. This idea you can't get heavy modern metal tones from low wattage amps and cab sims was old 10 years ago let alone 2021.

You are completely, 100 percent delusional, and flat out wrong, as I’ve proven 87 times now.

 

[TheToneDig]

i have cranked 50 watt amps in my room and play regularly at 107-113 decibels. Decibels and low end punch are completetly different. Anyone that has been in front of a 4x12 knows that, bud.

You just made my point. You don't need higher decibels for a low-end punch. You can get it with lower wattage amps designed for it.

 

[TheToneDig]

You are completely, 100 percent delusional, and flat out wrong, as I’ve proven 87 times now.

Proof would be easy. A video showing the comparison and how it can't be done on less wattage with IRs.

However, the problem you will be having is that nearly every single video comparison out there that does this ends up revealing that listeners can't tell the difference if done right. Over and over again.

Apparently, everybody is just wrong and a few of you are right about this but don't have any videos demonstrating this because.... ?

 

[VESmedic]

You just made my point. You don't need higher decibels for a low-end punch. You can get it with lower wattage amps designed for it.

Except you are reading his point backwards. He’s stating is 50 watt heads probably don’t have the same punch as his 100 watt heads at comparable volumes…

 

[VESmedic]

Proof would be easy. A video showing the comparison and how it can't be done on less wattage with IRs.

However, the problem you will be having is that nearly every single video comparison out there that does this ends up revealing that listeners can't tell the difference if done right. Over and over again.

Apparently, everybody is just wrong and a few of you are right about this but don't have any videos demonstrating this because.... ?

I give up. You are helpless.

 

[TheToneDig]

 

[Smash]

You just made my point. You don't need higher decibels for a low-end punch. You can get it with lower wattage amps designed for it.

fair enough, tell me what 20 watt is designed for it. Because I use 100 watts because 50 watt amps don't have the same punch. 150 watts even more. I guess that is just my imagination

 

[DanTravis62]

Oh good, another pointless YouTube video completely fucking unrelated to any of the topics at hand.