Sell your mark IIC+: the black album was a mark 3.

  • Thread starter Thread starter VESmedic
  • Start date Start date
Racerxrated said:
First off, the C+ is a rare amp. Not many made. How many Famous modern metal players even own one? Studios? I’m sure if they wanted to, they could buy one. But, it’s a COMPLETELY different tone than the most common recorded metal amp, 5150/5153s. So, if metal band A wanted to sound like metal band B, who uses 5150s metal band A is going to use 5150s. Since that is Sneaps fav amp to use, even if metal band C wanted to record with a C+ the producer may nix it. So I think there are many factors at play when it comes to judging why a C+ is only used to record the biggest metal band EVER; 3-4 albums. And not the 5150. One of the reasons the 5150 is used is they were cheap and plentiful; and once they became entrenched in the metal scene, why change? It was the go to metal amp. Why change a good thing?
Click to expand...
This. If the amp was more easily attainable, I wouldn't doubt that it would be used much more frequently for recording. 5150s, be it Peavey or EVH, are out there in abundance and nowhere near as costly as a Mark IIC+. The same could be said for Dual Rectifiers as well.
 
Exo-metal said:
...*literally* crush them
Click to expand...
1654617749754.png


:sneaky:

For future reference,
here's a device that LITERALLY crushes things:
1654617832248.png


Still bummed that I didn't bite on that local 2C+ for chump change years ago, because I thought 'too good to be true, probably a scam' and weeks later found out who bought that amp on the Boogie forum...
 
Racerxrated said:
First off, the C+ is a rare amp. Not many made. How many Famous modern metal players even own one? Studios? I’m sure if they wanted to, they could buy one. But, it’s a COMPLETELY different tone than the most common recorded metal amp, 5150/5153s. So, if metal band A wanted to sound like metal band B, who uses 5150s metal band A is going to use 5150s. Since that is Sneaps fav amp to use, even if metal band C wanted to record with a C+ the producer may nix it. So I think there are many factors at play when it comes to judging why a C+ is only used to record the biggest metal band EVER; 3-4 albums. And not the 5150. One of the reasons the 5150 is used is they were cheap and plentiful; and once they became entrenched in the metal scene, why change? It was the go to metal amp. Why change a good thing?

But, if you want to compare what you hear with a 5150 vs a C+ in the room, the C+ crushes it in the categories I value in an amp. Clarity? Haha not even close. Noise? Again, not even close. Tone? Subjective of course. Feel? C+ is far more touch sensitive. I’ve played many 5150s on back lines years ago and the only way to run them was LOUD. Fizzy and smeared at lower volumes; above 5 they were much better but that’s super loud. To each their own but I certainly don’t rate an amp based on who and how many times it’s been used on a record. If I did, my 2 vintage Marshalls shit all over any other amp ever. Haha
Click to expand...



Sorry bro, but you are making ALOT of assumptions here… a lot.


1. I can tell you a 2C+ Was sitting in the studio of one of the best metal producers for the last 20 years…. Didn’t get turned on once, nor was it even thought about.


2. It has nothing to do with availability, trust me. If it was the best, I can promise you it would be in ATLEAST ONE of the biggest guys in the games studio.

3. A producer/engineer worth his salt is going to use the best equipment to get the best tones and sounds for the and they are producing. A producer “not liking the tone but the band does” is just a ridiculous scenario… who would go back to that guy? “ yea we really liked the tones and the mixes on OUR record, but since the producer didn’t, we changed it to what he liked”….. said no one ever.

4. 5150s first became popular in modern metal in Europe in the early 90s. They didn’t get popular (for the most part) in the US for modern metal until Atleast a decade later. They were definitely not “cheap and plentiful” in Europe in 1993-1994.



5. Why do you people care about this useless in the room tone so much? Never once in any of my rants did I mention anything about “ in the room”… I couldn’t care less, and neither do these bands SINCE THEY ARE RECORDING.


6: I have never, once in my life ever heard anyone say a 5150 sounds “best above 5” on the volume knob… ever. Eddie ran his at less than 3. The highest I know FOR A FACT that anyone at audiohammer or sneaps studio ever had the volume on a 5150 for recording was maybe MAYBE 3.5. They fall apart above that. Usually at 3 and lower.


7: what do you use base what amps you want to buy then? When you first started playing, did you just… decide you were gonna buy an amp, NOT based on anything else? And yes, im
Sorry but once again, there is a reason why that thing is not used and never has been for modern metal tones. and it has nothing at all to do with the many assumptions made in this thread, I can assure you of that.



And ya, your vintage Marshalls do shit over many many amps, do you not agree with that ? I know I do. But, does that mean they are amazing modern metal amps? Do people swear they are the best amps for modern metal tones? No, they don’t. But for what it is, it’s amazing. There is no disputing that, or no one having imaginary thoughts that that amp is capable of the best modern metal tones by itself.
 
Last edited:
I'm curious what that amp in the studio was? Like the badger or wolverine in the wild, highly underestimated because of its size but will fuck you up and leave you ripped and torn...that 60w SG++ that I have has that same vicious disposition. It's not a stock C+ but these are well known to have that edge and send many many amps down the road.
 
Last edited:
VESmedic said:
Sorry bro, but you are making ALOT of assumptions here… a lot.


1. I can tell you a 2C+ Was sitting in the studio of one of the best metal producers for the last 20 years…. Didn’t get turned on once, nor was it even thought about.


2. It has nothing to do with availability, trust me. If it was the best, I can promise you it would be in ATLEAST ONE of the biggest guys in the games studio.

3. A producer/engineer worth his salt is going to use the best equipment to get the best tones and sounds for the and they are producing. A producer “not liking the tone but the band does” is just a ridiculous scenario… who would go back to that guy? “ yea we really liked the tones and the mixes on OUR record, but since the producer didn’t, we changed it to what he liked”….. said no one ever.

4. 5150s first became popular in modern metal in Europe in the early 90s. They didn’t get popular (for the most part) in the US for modern metal until Atleast a decade later. They were definitely not “cheap and plentiful” in Europe in 1993-1994.



5. Why do you people care about this useless in the room tone so much? Never once in any of my rants did I mention anything about “ in the room”… I couldn’t care less, and neither do these bands SINCE THEY ARE RECORDING.


6: I have never, once in my life ever heard anyone say a 5150 sounds “best above 5” on the volume knob… ever. Eddie ran his at less than 3. The highest I know FOR A FACT that anyone at audiohammer or sneaps studio ever had the volume on a 5150 for recording was maybe MAYBE 3.5. They fall apart above that. Usually at 3 and lower.


7: what do you use base what amps you want to buy then? When you first started playing, did you just… decide you were gonna buy an amp, NOT based on anything else? And yes, im
Sorry but once again, there is a reason why that thing is not used and never has been for modern metal tones. and it has nothing at all to do with the many assumptions made in this thread, I can assure you of that.



And ya, your vintage Marshalls do shit over many many amps, do you not agree with that ? I know I do. But, does that mean they are amazing modern metal amps? Do people swear they are the best amps for modern metal tones? No, they don’t. But for what it is, it’s amazing. There is no disputing that, or no one having imaginary thoughts that that amp is capable of the best modern metal tones by itself.
Click to expand...
Ok, so right off the bat your 2 and 1 kind of contradict each other, no?

I still think the rare and uncommon factor do play a part in this.
You seem to be basing an amps abilities ONLY on ‘how often it was used to record’ as the only way to measure an amp. I’ll disagree. When I was younger, sure, I wanted an amp that sounded just like the records. But, then you grow up and realize that NONE of those tones are achievable. Because, you realize that it was a blend of like 8 amps with this/that rare ass mojo dripping super eq from hell boosting them. Lol.
So next, I go see X band at a show. Killing it. With a Marshall. So that’s my basis for the tones I like; what did they use live? So for me my fav tone is a boosted Marshall or similar.
After I started chasing some cool Marshalls I get the gear bug. It led me to a Mark 3. Very meh to me. I hear about the C+. Way better clarity, like blanket off speaker clarity compared to a 3. Love it. Heard Metallica used them. Dial mine in WAY different than them. All good.
That’s my thing with the C+. If you measure amps on how many bands used them to record, well ok. That’s your thing. In modern metal I have no clue. You got me there. But having played many 5150s yes they tend to wake up at 5 from my memory, but maybe those back lines amps needed new tubes? Been awhile. But on the tone between a 5150 and a C+? For me it’s no contest; but I don’t play modern metal.
 
Goddamn! Motherfuckers get pissed over some amps. My bored at work contribution: I've had 5150s and have a c+. Both kick ass but I'll take the c+ to my grave its just that good. Plus it does way more than just metal and does it really well.
 
Just going to chime one and say until I got my Monomyth skeleton key I only own the same three amps. Marshall 2203/04, a 5150, and a Mesa Mark. Anything else is unnecessary (for me). So this argument is kinda like a who’s the better at their sport Gretzky or Jordan. I couldn’t honestly couldn’t even choose between the two.
 
I find people who buy amps cus of an album quite odd. The biggest effect on tone is pickups, speakers and mic placement. Plus all the variables in the studio like post EQ etc.
 
I keep buying C+ because of nostalgia, investment value, because the internet says so, and because I think they're the best tonal bedroom / solo wanking amp ever made. Nothing feels like them. I also think they record better than any other Mark for normal tunings which is why that's what we're using on our album- plus a desire NOT to sound like every other metal album. (As much as I don't care for the MkV, it does very well with uber low metal tunings..)

That said, I've had 7 of them of all power sections and none of them sound mind blowing in my live metal band mix. Rectos generally sound better in the band. The first time I discovered this it really was a hit to the ego- I went to an audition with a C++ HRG, and in the mix it was a boxy mess. The other guitarist with a multi FX board & a Crate kicked my ass tonally. That was a hard pill to swallow! Fast forward I have figured out that they're usable if I boost them & run the gain low, but there are still better choices live.

As of today, after trying basically every Mark in the band mix the ONLY one that dominates is my IIB+ KRG, which is still the best amp I've ever played.
 
GJgo said:
I keep buying C+ because of nostalgia, investment value, because the internet says so, and because I think they're the best tonal bedroom / solo wanking amp ever made. Nothing feels like them. I also think they record better than any other Mark for normal tunings which is why that's what we're using on our album- plus a desire NOT to sound like every other metal album. (As much as I don't care for the MkV, it does very well with uber low metal tunings..)

That said, I've had 7 of them of all power sections and none of them sound mind blowing in my live metal band mix. Rectos generally sound better in the band. The first time I discovered this it really was a hit to the ego- I went to an audition with a C++ HRG, and in the mix it was a boxy mess. The other guitarist with a multi FX board & a Crate kicked my ass tonally. That was a hard pill to swallow! Fast forward I have figured out that they're usable if I boost them & run the gain low, but there are still better choices live.

As of today, after trying basically every Mark in the band mix the ONLY one that dominates is my IIB+ KRG, which is still the best amp I've ever played.
Click to expand...
The hard truth about Mesas is this: they will get stomped out of the yard vs a Marshall or Marshall clone. It’s all about the mids. Even a Triple Recto still doesn’t quite have the same upper mid ability as a Marshall or similar. Just the way it is. That Crate had more of those I’m guessing.
In a 1 guitar band or a 2 guitar setup with all Mesa, you are fine.
 
Exo-metal said:
Let's try this man child, go fuck yourself...literally.
Click to expand...
I make a simple joke and you go straight for insults? Wow. Mature.

Must be tough living with such thin skin, buddy.
More insults imminent in 3...2...1... :jerkit:
 
I got into IIC+’s, not because I wanted to cop ‘Tallica or DT tones… but because of their qualities: nostalgia, versatility, build, tones, and feel. There aren’t many amps that can do what they can. Having owned S’s, D’s, H’s and a K (all RG’s), my hands-down favorite was the vicious “little” SRG.

Whether or not they are widely used for modern metal recording didn’t influence me and doesn’t seem to have any impact on driving their value today. There are plenty of people clamoring to get them (for numerous reasons) and limited availability. They are truly great amps. Whether or not they should command the prices people are asking these days is in the eye of the prospective buyer. In the end, it’s personal preference on what works for an individual - and, since most of us here are GAS-aholics, those preferences change over time.

In my case, I go to my late IIB KRG and single-channel Marshall-types more these days because they work better for me. Whether or not that changes is TBD.…
 
Speeddemon said:
I make a simple joke and you go straight for insults? Wow. Mature.

Must be tough living with such thin skin, buddy.
More insults imminent in 3...2...1... :jerkit:
Click to expand...
A joke is when u make someone laugh besides yourself. Being funny and thinking you're funny are two different things. Good luck with your career as a comedian, you're fucked.
 
Last edited:
get me up to speed- do I need to drag my bbe sonic maximizer back out? I moved 3 three times in the last 15 years and I found that the maximizer sounds best in an unmarked box in the garage. I haven't used it in my guitar chain since the early 90s
 
Exo-metal said:
A joke is when u make someone laugh besides yourself. Being funny and thinking you're funny are two different things.
Click to expand...
Ah, you mean like internet tough guy posturing, when no one's actually impressed? :unsure:Gotcha.

I'm off to do some riffing that literally crushes things. :cool:
 
Last edited:
Racerxrated said:
A band I was in way back in 91, we gave one away to the first to buy us a pitcher of Beer. Lol
Click to expand...
I actually like Sonic Maximizers with solid state amps. I used one way back in the day with a Peavey Supreme 160 and it really brought it to life. I have never really used one with a tube amp though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top