So at TGP Ceriatone has joined the ranks of Dumble.

[Bob Savage]

Oops..................copyright

At last, we've gotten somewhere!

 

[Digital Jams]

DAMN IT SAVAGE THE SPAM LINK FOR THAT GUITAR ON TGP SHOULD BE TAKEN DOWN DUE TO COPYRIGHT INFRIDGEMENT!!!!!!!

What was for lunch anyways?

 

[ampkits]

Dear all,

Chris, thanks for the invitation.

I guess I owe it to people to say that:

1) TGP and its owners have every right to ban anything they wish. As mentioned by someone here, it's their house.

2) I am fine, thanks for the concern.

3) Fraud is quite a strong word. Were I to market it as a real TW, then yes.

4) The usage of the logo is wrong. It has been stopped long ago, when the issue was brought up. Again, I say, it was the wrong thing to do...

5) No, I did not use TGP to sell my amps. I am a bit offended by this.
The vested interest group started a thread, which grew to be so long (has since been deleted), which basically was a mock ("Will a Ceriatone Clone of..."). It sorta backfired at them, and thus, what happened. At least thats the way I see it.
All my replies to this thread has been pretty much tongue in cheek and sarcasm filled. I guess these sort of people cant get red in the cheek, they wanna start to M16 people when they do.

Anyways, again, thanks. I know some of you guys, and you have been there for me all the time.

So, in order to not cause further pain and hurt to the people at TGP, I am banning all discussion on Ceriatone over there. It's only fair right, and achieves what some set out to achieve? Simple effective solution.

Thanks!

Nik

 

[Shiny_Surface]

Dear all,

Chris, thanks for the invitation.

I guess I owe it to people to say that:

1) TGP and its owners have every right to ban anything they wish. As mentioned by someone here, it's their house.

2) I am fine, thanks for the concern.

3) Fraud is quite a strong word. Were I to market it as a real TW, then yes.

4) The usage of the logo is wrong. It has been stopped long ago, when the issue was brought up. Again, I say, it was the wrong thing to do...

5) No, I did not use TGP to sell my amps. I am a bit offended by this.
The vested interest group started a thread, which grew to be so long (has since been deleted), which basically was a mock ("Will a Ceriatone Clone of..."). It sorta backfired at them, and thus, what happened. At least thats the way I see it.
All my replies to this thread has been pretty much tongue in cheek and sarcasm filled. I guess these sort of people cant get red in the cheek, they wanna start to M16 people when they do.

Anyways, again, thanks. I know some of you guys, and you have been there for me all the time.

So, in order to not cause further pain and hurt to the people at TGP, I am banning all discussion on Ceriatone over there. It's only fair right, and achieves what some set out to achieve? Simple effective solution.

Thanks!

Nik

Welcome to Rig Talk

 

[degenaro]

Dear all,

Chris, thanks for the invitation.

I guess I owe it to people to say that:

1) TGP and its owners have every right to ban anything they wish. As mentioned by someone here, it's their house.

2) I am fine, thanks for the concern.

3) Fraud is quite a strong word. Were I to market it as a real TW, then yes.

4) The usage of the logo is wrong. It has been stopped long ago, when the issue was brought up. Again, I say, it was the wrong thing to do...

5) No, I did not use TGP to sell my amps. I am a bit offended by this.
The vested interest group started a thread, which grew to be so long (has since been deleted), which basically was a mock ("Will a Ceriatone Clone of..."). It sorta backfired at them, and thus, what happened. At least thats the way I see it.
All my replies to this thread has been pretty much tongue in cheek and sarcasm filled. I guess these sort of people cant get red in the cheek, they wanna start to M16 people when they do.

Anyways, again, thanks. I know some of you guys, and you have been there for me all the time.

So, in order to not cause further pain and hurt to the people at TGP, I am banning all discussion on Ceriatone over there. It's only fair right, and achieves what some set out to achieve? Simple effective solution.

Thanks!

Nik

Yes fraud is a strong word. But we both know well enough that when somebody buys an amp with a Wreck logo on it after a few changing hands it'll be not so clear anymore whether it is or isn't a wreck. And as you yourselfsay it was simply wrong.
Also one side note on all the TGP discussions, here's what the sad part is the amount of folks that believe it IS their "right" to have a Wreck logo or a Fender logo on a clone is unreal. And simply put when grown men act liek spoiled chuildren somebody has to be the responsible guy.
FWIW, I know of your reputation from a few friends and you enjoy a great rep as a builder, so doing the right thing in the end will benefit you I believe. If for nothing else than guys like me not bitching.

 

[ejecta]

I think the main thing is that Ceriatone is offering a bit too much bang for the buck, and some of the more boutiquey companies represented there are shitting bricks.

Pete

This ist it in a nut shell IMHO. Always follow the money. All the talk about ethics is nice and all but when it comes to money thats when all the "legal action" talk begins.

 

[redrol]

Any time someone bans a discussion, I don't like them out of principal.

Also one side note on all the TGP discussions, here's what the sad part is the amount of folks that believe it IS their "right" to have a Wreck logo or a Fender logo on a clone is unreal. And simply put when grown men act liek spoiled chuildren somebody has to be the responsible guy.

I really don't place copyrights up there with morality. Bottom line is if they make a better product and have better service then they will win in the marketplace and make plenty of money. The fact that people take logos so seriously is telling.

It is worth saying that right now copyright laws are completely wacked.

Maybe they should do like the computer industry and call their amps Trainwreck compatible or something.

 

[stratotone]

Well, they claim he was still selling amps with the logo, but not taking into account turnaround times and the fact that someone may have ordered one with the copyrighted logo some time ago and he's fulfilling old orders. From someone else's post, who said they tried to get a TW logo, Nik refused... If he did it in the past and quit, AND ISN'T DOING IT ANYMORE, what's the big deal?

My Liverpool clone has a dragon logo where some had 'trainwreck' logos. That were silk screened on the PLEXI front panel, which you know, is just like a real Trainwreck.

Even if he had a 'wreck logo on some of his amps (which yes, is wrong) - what type of a dumbass is going to be fooled by that and think it's real? I could put a marshall logo (which I can buy damn near anywhere for 'restoration purposes') on my 18 watt clone, but there still would be several things 'wrong' with my amp. A Trainwreck is a high enough end amp that it should be really hard to fool someone. I could write 'rolex' in grease pencil across my digital timex, but it still won't trick anyone into buying it.

How many guitars are sold in TGP's classifieds with wrong logos - GMW's with Charvel logos, warmoth and others partscasters with Fender decals, etc? Probably a lot. Ditto for kits and parts amps with marshall and fender badges and logos.

I think the main thing is that Ceriatone is offering a bit too much bang for the buck, and some of the more boutiquey companies represented there are shitting bricks.

Pete

That is a huge assumption on your part. I have no problem with him building whatever clone he feels like. If it weren't for the logo thing I prolly woulda bought one of his Matchless clones. But the big deal is that he was trying to make money not only of some body's design, which I can live with. But then sells it as a fake...and whether he stopped doing it or not you should be able to see the big deal. If some one rips you off, and says we won't anymnore is that good enough for you-to use an analogy.

Ed, show me ONE person who knows what a trainwreck is that would see the trainwreck logo on a PLEXI FACEPLATE and think it was real. And that's not even looking under the hood. If the guy was putting the logo on there to make it look like a real one, then he's misguided at best and retarded at worst... you guys are acting like he's hand stamping each chassis with 'ginger', putting them in cherry wood boxes, woodburning the faceplates and creating the typed out tube charts and signing them with Ken's name. I'm not arguing that it's wrong for him to put the trademarked logo on the amps, but if he quit then give him the benefit of the doubt.

Pete

 

[Bob Savage]

Any time someone bans a discussion, I don't like them out of principal.

I really don't place copyrights up there with morality. Bottom line is if they make a better product and have better service then they will win in the marketplace and make plenty of money. The fact that people take logos so seriously is telling.

It's easy to think people take logos/trademarks too seriously until it's your trademark that's being infringed upon. I actually find the fact that so many people take trademarks and/or logos so lightly to be telling.

 

[redrol]

Any time someone bans a discussion, I don't like them out of principal.

I really don't place copyrights up there with morality. Bottom line is if they make a better product and have better service then they will win in the marketplace and make plenty of money. The fact that people take logos so seriously is telling.

It's easy to think people take logos/trademarks too seriously until it's your trademark that's being infringed upon. I actually find the fact that so many people take trademarks and/or logos so lightly to be telling.

Thing is I don't care about money that much. Some people do. Bottom line is I am a communist.

 

[degenaro]

Well, they claim he was still selling amps with the logo, but not taking into account turnaround times and the fact that someone may have ordered one with the copyrighted logo some time ago and he's fulfilling old orders. From someone else's post, who said they tried to get a TW logo, Nik refused... If he did it in the past and quit, AND ISN'T DOING IT ANYMORE, what's the big deal?

My Liverpool clone has a dragon logo where some had 'trainwreck' logos. That were silk screened on the PLEXI front panel, which you know, is just like a real Trainwreck.

Even if he had a 'wreck logo on some of his amps (which yes, is wrong) - what type of a dumbass is going to be fooled by that and think it's real? I could put a marshall logo (which I can buy damn near anywhere for 'restoration purposes') on my 18 watt clone, but there still would be several things 'wrong' with my amp. A Trainwreck is a high enough end amp that it should be really hard to fool someone. I could write 'rolex' in grease pencil across my digital timex, but it still won't trick anyone into buying it.

How many guitars are sold in TGP's classifieds with wrong logos - GMW's with Charvel logos, warmoth and others partscasters with Fender decals, etc? Probably a lot. Ditto for kits and parts amps with marshall and fender badges and logos.

I think the main thing is that Ceriatone is offering a bit too much bang for the buck, and some of the more boutiquey companies represented there are shitting bricks.

Pete

That is a huge assumption on your part. I have no problem with him building whatever clone he feels like. If it weren't for the logo thing I prolly woulda bought one of his Matchless clones. But the big deal is that he was trying to make money not only of some body's design, which I can live with. But then sells it as a fake...and whether he stopped doing it or not you should be able to see the big deal. If some one rips you off, and says we won't anymnore is that good enough for you-to use an analogy.

Ed, show me ONE person who knows what a trainwreck is that would see the trainwreck logo on a PLEXI FACEPLATE and think it was real. And that's not even looking under the hood. If the guy was putting the logo on there to make it look like a real one, then he's misguided at best and retarded at worst... you guys are acting like he's hand stamping each chassis with 'ginger', putting them in cherry wood boxes, woodburning the faceplates and creating the typed out tube charts and signing them with Ken's name. I'm not arguing that it's wrong for him to put the trademarked logo on the amps, but if he quit then give him the benefit of the doubt.

Pete

I thought I did...

 

[degenaro]

Any time someone bans a discussion, I don't like them out of principal.

I really don't place copyrights up there with morality. Bottom line is if they make a better product and have better service then they will win in the marketplace and make plenty of money. The fact that people take logos so seriously is telling.

It's easy to think people take logos/trademarks too seriously until it's your trademark that's being infringed upon. I actually find the fact that so many people take trademarks and/or logos so lightly to be telling.

Thing is I don't care about money that much. Some people do. Bottom line is I am a communist.

Not just a matter of money though, how many times have you seen folks on forums worry about posting their tunes no matter how non-viable they may be in fear of somebody ripping them off.

Plus, I'm not a big fan of standing on the shoulders of giants without royalties being paid. Take a look at Komet, they paid Fischer.

 

[Digital Jams]

Well Metro is now in the mix in the TGP thread

Of course they are just talking headshells and faceplates and not the nuts and bolts of the amp

Is the Marshall headshell a copywrite?

 

[tweed]

Ok i'll admit it. I spent a rather good portion of my lunchbreak browsing NIk's website. I think I feel a little gas rumbling. Is that so wrong?

 

[Bob Savage]

It's easy to think people take logos/trademarks too seriously until it's your trademark that's being infringed upon. I actually find the fact that so many people take trademarks and/or logos so lightly to be telling.

Thing is I don't care about money that much. Some people do. Bottom line is I am a communist. [/quote]

I care about money and am not ashamed of it.

 

[stratotone]

I'm in embedded quote hell, Me in black, Ed D in red...

Ed, show me ONE person who knows what a trainwreck is that would see the trainwreck logo on a PLEXI FACEPLATE and think it was real. And that's not even looking under the hood. If the guy was putting the logo on there to make it look like a real one, then he's misguided at best and retarded at worst... you guys are acting like he's hand stamping each chassis with 'ginger', putting them in cherry wood boxes, woodburning the faceplates and creating the typed out tube charts and signing them with Ken's name. I'm not arguing that it's wrong for him to put the trademarked logo on the amps, but if he quit then give him the benefit of the doubt.

Pete

I thought I did...

Who thinks that one of those Ceriatones with the screen printed plexi logo is a real Ken Fischer amp? I have a fab amp with a hand drawn 'THD' logo on it I'd like to sell them. It's a prototype!

 

[Bob Savage]

...The fact that people take logos so seriously is telling...

You think this is serious? You should see how seriuos companies like Anheuser-Busch, American Express, Microsoft, etc... are about their logos! It's a whole different ballgame in the corporate world. All of those companies have teams of people that deal with nothing but "branding."

The thing is if you don't defend your patents, you can render them unenforceable.

 

[Bob Savage]

And by the way, I have a Fender decal on order to put on my logoless K-Line Strat. SHOOT ME!

 

[j666]

Any time someone bans a discussion, I don't like them out of principal.

I really don't place copyrights up there with morality. Bottom line is if they make a better product and have better service then they will win in the marketplace and make plenty of money. The fact that people take logos so seriously is telling.

It's easy to think people take logos/trademarks too seriously until it's your trademark that's being infringed upon. I actually find the fact that so many people take trademarks and/or logos so lightly to be telling.

Thing is I don't care about money that much. Some people do. Bottom line is I am a communist.

it's not so much money...you can't buy name recognition. you just can't. so when that logo is associated with that name, or vice versa, and that name or logo is used freely by others for their profit...that's enough to piss anybody off. commie or not...you'd be pissed as hell if someone was making money offa your name.
and as far as the nuts and bolts and circuit boards...most people don't know about that shit...they only know that it says "marshall" or "peavey" on the outside of it. so, to me, that almost counts for more than what's actually going on inside. at least, in this particular issue.

 

[JamesPeters]

And by the way, I have a Fender decal on order to put on my logoless K-Line Strat. SHOOT ME!

If you put it there yourself you have every right to, as the end user/owner, as long as you don't try to sell it as a Fender guitar because then it'd be a fraud.

Ed, show me ONE person who knows what a trainwreck is that would see the trainwreck logo on a PLEXI FACEPLATE and think it was real. And that's not even looking under the hood.

Whereas I understand this, the issue of trademark infringement has already been discussed, and secondly...

Haven't you ever been to a pawn shop and seen what appears to be a Gibson guitar with a Gibson logo on the headstock, but upon closer inspection something about it doesn't add up? Then surprise, you realize it's a fraud? I have, numerous times. Gibson experts would spot those differences from 50 feet away but it takes a guy like me to really think about the differences, probably even consult some websites, to know what's authentic or not. Add to that the fact the buyers of these amps can be so adamant about making the amp look authentic, they can add whatever type of headshell to them they want (and some do go out of their way to make wooden headshells like the original Trainwreck ones); this makes it even more tricky for the average person to know the difference. And this is why trademark infringement is such an issue in the first place; it's the thing which average people associate most with a given brand, and everything else about the looks is secondary.