The ultimate high gain head for my needs?

[braintheory]

Hi guys!

Sorry for the late response but it has been a busy week.
I want to thank each and everyone of you for your responses so far and for taking the time to help me in my search.
Every suggestion counts.
Thank you all

So far there has been mentioned a lot of interesting amps.
Unfortunately I don't have the time to go to a guitar shop and try the amps that I'm interested in, with all the family duties and work. It's a very tight schedule. Also, we don't have the variety of shops and amps here. That's why I started this post.

So, an update:

I came to the conclusion that an amp with all those sounds I need, does not exist. I'll have to buy more than one head.

I also came to the conclusion that what I'm searching for in my basic heavy distortion sound, is the mix of the upper mids and definition of the "British sound" and the low mids and lows of the "American sound" TOGETHER in one channel. I need an organic full boded distortion sound with this combination.
I don't want to buy 2 different amps just for that one sound and mix them together every time I want to play guitar. It's unpractical and luxurious for my purposes.

So which amps& manufacturers are out of the game for one reason or another :
Marshalls (I can't use them as a standalone amp, too much treble & upper mid focus, lack of low mids and lows)
JVM (very poor quality, almost like a digital unit, like a collection of distortion boxes)
Engl (not organic, dislike the signature sound)
Diezel (not organic, dislike the signature sound)
Revv 120 (only liked the purple 3rd ch.)
Mezzabarba (dislike the signature sound)
Bogner Exctasy: No use for it as I'll buy a different amp for the cleans. 3rd ch nothing interesting.

I might have to sell the Mark and the Recto and start all over again.

Amps & manufacturers I'm considering:
- Fender Reverb amp for true american cleans.
Basic heavy distortion sound:
- MESA Triple Crown 100w:
Organic, but I don't know how brutal and modern the 3rd ch can be for my needs. I can use the 2nd ch as my modernized JCM 800 sound. Clean ch i don't know.
- MESA Badlander 100w:
Brutal and modern, organic, i like the sound but I don't know about the tightness and the possible lack of upper mids and definition. Also, I could use the 1st ch as my heavy alternative sound.
- VICTORY Super Kraken 100w:
Nice organic distortion full boded sound but maybe a little smooth/not so modern, only one eq for all 3 channels.
- EVH Stealth 6L6 100w:
1st ch is an imitation of a Plexi sound.
2nd ch is modern tight brutal sound or an 80s heavy rythm sound.
3ch is the solo/lead sound or the basic modern tight brutal sound.
I'm afraid I'll get tired of it after a while, not as organic and inspiring as the Mesas i think.
Too tight perhaps? and it lacks the texture. It's like an one purpose amp. An one dimensional brutal modern distortion.
- ORANGE Rockeverb 3:
Nice clean ch, interesting distortion ch, but ultimately a jack of all trades kind of amp. Distortion gets a little fuzzy and sludgy at times.
- FRIEDMAN BE-100 or Deluxe:
Organic, fantastic Plexi cleans, inspiring marshall distortion sounds that you can actually play as a standalone amp because of the low mids and lows blended in. As opposed to an original Marshall.
- Fryette:
Organic and brutal for sure but too tight and very upforward sound. Doesn't have enough "give" and "chewiness".

These are my conclusions so far as the sonic characteristics go.

I tend to gravitate to the mesa sound it seems but I am concerned about the tightness, aggression and definition they might lacking. Especially the Badlander

I also think I might go for a 3 amp setup:
1) Fender Reverb for cleans
2) FRIEDMAN BE-100 or Deluxe for everything Marshall & in-between sounds.
3) A 2ch amp for heavy alternative rythm and brutal heavy rythm that fit my description and needs.

That's it for now.
More to come.
Keep on searching

Sounds like you’re on the right track to me. Impressive given you not being able to try all these amps. I’d though not recommend the TC, Rockerverb, EVH or Fryette’s for what you’re describing. I think the Badlander could possibly work really well. It’s got plenty of aggression, attack and definition. No worries there and more upper mids than other boogies, but don’t expect it to exactly be a Marshall. It also takes boosts really great and can be shaped to do a lot of different sounds with them. Pretty good cleans too. I think some guys were just disappointed because the lows aren’t as big as other Recto’s or Mark’s, but they should definitely have more lows than most Marshall’s & Solandos. They also imo need adequate volume to shine

 

[RaceU4her]

All smoke and mirrors, courtesy of the OG New Jersey circle jerk crew. Always knew those guys were full of shit.

I could be totally off on this, but I think I remember they needed a certain amount of preorders and supposedly they would get a few hundred bucks off and get the amp before the public, then the release came and no one got their amp and only a few got them way after it was released. I remember playing a show with a band that had one before those dudes, that had to be 07/08. I can’t remember the dudes involved

 

[glpg80]

The Bogner XTC cleans are legit a fender deluxe in a channel switcher.

The 2nd and 3rd channel are meant to be an either-or type of style. Either people love one, or the other. Channel 3 gain is nuts stupid just like the channel 3 on the stealth units.

The fact is you haven’t played it and haven’t owned it and people have recommended it many times. It’s exactly what you want - Marshall grind with a fuck ton of solid low end that takes pedals and down tuning well.

All I’m saying is don’t knock it until you’ve tried it. I’m also a big Zakk fan and that amp isn’t going anywhere in my lineup.

 

[napalmdeath]

I wouldn't discount the Mesa JP2C. That's a killer amp!

 

[mooncobra]

Hi guys!

Sorry for the late response but it has been a busy week.
I want to thank each and everyone of you for your responses so far and for taking the time to help me in my search.
Every suggestion counts.
Thank you all

So far there has been mentioned a lot of interesting amps.
Unfortunately I don't have the time to go to a guitar shop and try the amps that I'm interested in, with all the family duties and work. It's a very tight schedule. Also, we don't have the variety of shops and amps here. That's why I started this post.

So, an update:

I came to the conclusion that an amp with all those sounds I need, does not exist. I'll have to buy more than one head.

I also came to the conclusion that what I'm searching for in my basic heavy distortion sound, is the mix of the upper mids and note definition of the "British sound" with the low mids and lows of the "American sound" TOGETHER in one channel. I need an organic full boded distortion sound with this combination.
I don't want to buy 2 different amps just for that one sound and mix them together every time I want to play guitar. It's unpractical and luxurious for my purposes.

So which amps & manufacturers are out of the game for one reason or another :
-Marshalls (I can't use them as a standalone amp, too much treble & upper mid focus, lack of low mids and lows). That's why they shine in a band context and in a mix.
-JVM (very poor quality, almost like a digital unit, like a collection of distortion boxes)
-Engl (not organic, dislike the signature sound)
-Diezel (not organic, dislike the signature sound)
-Revv 120 (only liked the purple 3rd ch.)
-Mezzabarba (dislike the signature sound)
-Bogner Exctasy: No use for it as I'll buy a different amp for the cleans. 3rd ch nothing interesting.

I might have to sell the Mark and the Recto and start all over again.

Amps & manufacturers I'm considering:
- Fender Reverb amp for true american cleans.
Basic heavy distortion sound:
- MESA Triple Crown 100w:
Organic, but I don't know how brutal and modern the 3rd ch can be for my needs. I can use the 2nd ch as my modernized JCM 800 sound. Clean ch i don't know.
- MESA Badlander 100w:
Brutal and modern, organic, i like the sound but I don't know about the tightness and the possible lack of upper mids and definition. Also, I could use the 1st ch as my heavy alternative sound.
- VICTORY Super Kraken 100w:
Nice organic distortion full boded sound but maybe a little smooth/not so modern, only one eq for all 3 channels.
- EVH Stealth 6L6 100w:
1st ch is an imitation of a Plexi sound.
2nd ch is modern tight brutal sound or an 80s heavy rythm sound.
3ch is the solo/lead sound or the basic modern tight brutal sound.
I'm afraid I'll get tired of it after a while, not as organic and inspiring as the Mesas i think.
Too tight perhaps? and it lacks the texture. It's like an one purpose amp. An one dimensional brutal modern distortion.
- ORANGE Rockeverb 3:
Nice clean ch, interesting distortion ch, but ultimately a jack of all trades kind of amp. Distortion gets a little fuzzy and sludgy at times.
- FRIEDMAN BE-100 or Deluxe:
Organic, fantastic Plexi cleans, inspiring marshall distortion sounds that you can actually play as a standalone amp because of the low mids and lows blended in. As opposed to an original Marshall.
- Fryette:
Organic and brutal for sure but too tight and very upforward sound. Doesn't have enough "give" and "chewiness".

These are my conclusions so far, concerning the sonic characteristics.

I tend to gravitate to the mesa sound it seems but I am concerned about the tightness, aggression and definition they might lacking. Especially the Badlander

I also think I might go for a 3 amp setup:
1) Fender Reverb for cleans
2) FRIEDMAN BE-100 or Deluxe for everything Marshall & in-between sounds.
3) A 2ch amp for heavy alternative rythm and brutal heavy rythm that fit my description and needs.

That's it for now.
More to come.
Keep on searching

If you can get 3 amps you should do that. Especially if you don’t have to move them around a lot.

 

[Anxiety Serum]

VH4 for sure

Or a VH2 if you want amazing cleans. I had a Mark V (25 watt) and hatted the dirty channels. The VH2 is amazing. Listen to the Diezel Demo with Peter Diezel. If you like, that's what you'll get. Mine came with 6L6 instead of KT77 (shortages on those tubes) and many say it sounds better with those. Never had KT77 but love the 6L6.

Great note definition, not congested like the Mark, cleans up great especially on Channel 1. Channel 1 boosted is like a more open raw sounded Channel 2 when boosted.

 

[Mr. Willy]

I had a JVM for about 2 days. Many years back, whoa…….I still shudder thinking about those two days of pain, misery, anguish, and the worst tone I’ve ever heard.

I had a JVM for a hot minute. I thought it was very compressed and artificial sounding as well. I solidified with that amp that I’m a one channel amp with a boost or OD, and I’m good kind of guy. If I need “channel switching,” I do it with the volume knob. I just can’t do all the bells and whistles and all that. Even with the four channels, I still thought it was basically a gain and clean channel and that was it. I see why some guys would like them though. It was built well and looked cool, but not my thing either.

 

[Techdeth]

If you are playing death metal, you should snag one of those ferocious Engl, as some are made to initiate sonic blitzkrieg mode. I have heard a couple engl that scrambled my brain leaving me bewildered and feeling like I was annihilated by a 100 foot wave. It’s an all out sonic assault on all your senses, as my friend slammed palm muted chuggah chuggahs, I reached out and could feel pulses of death metal obliteration on my finger tips. The engl pushes air. Also had a decent clean channel.

He had a few engl, but two were way more vicious than others. I think they were a special edition invader and savage mk2.

Also, you could ask lord techdeath as he seems to know much about engl.

You know like a lot of amps . And I must say Engl is king of death metal amps !

 

[Techdeth]

Yes there’s no argument there: no valid substitute for trying in person (clips aren’t enough). I fully agree also that the Mezzabarba is not the tightest amp by any stretch, but I was able to get something eventually that I thought worked for metal. The JVM is tighter and well voiced for sure, for me it was just once I started comparing it to other amps it sounded like a recording of an amp to me and felt artificial from my perspective, but like you said that’s just me and others should try for themselves to see if they feel the same or not. The Mezzabarba to me sounded more raw and organic than most recent made amps I’ve tried, particularly if we’re talking high gain stuff. That’s why it impressed me. I don’t like Engl’s also for that artificial sound. I sold my Mezzabarba Mzero OD years ago anyway fwiw

The JVM cab great tones but it missed that loud roar and bark of old Marshall’s . It’s still cool but that was weird for me

 

[Achilles]

Theoretically, the Mark V could fill those criterias about the fender clean, alternative heavy and brutal modern heavy.
It's an amp I already have and that way I could also skip buying a separate amp just for my true fender cleans. From my experience (after owing & playing various mark amps and preamps) the Mark cleans is the next best thing after the real thing. For my tastes anyway.
But I'm wondering about a Mark V vs Badlander comparison it the gain department and overall feel.
I'm afraid about the mark v being too tight in the second ch. for those alternative heavy sounds.

 

[Dino 939]

We’ll, I can officially give an honest report of a high end, high gainer I just bought.
I’ve played it for nearly 30 hours and against
other amps in the jam room over the past week.

-I’m blown away.
It’s hard for me to authentically accept that.
The Mezza ‘ES’ M-Zero.
I don’t know if you have ever played any of the Mezzabarbarabarabarabba amps in their lineup?
This amp is a fantastic departure from the amps you’re trying to get away from.
Anybody reading this, you need to go faithfully check one of these out.
It’s so good, there’s too much to type about it
& now am just flipping it outta’ stand by….,
I have two RAD pedals coming in the mail today as well.
‘Adios!!

 

[Achilles]

We’ll, I can officially give an honest report of a high end, high gainer I just bought.
I’ve played it for nearly 30 hours and against
other amps in the jam room over the past week.

-I’m blown away.
It’s hard for me to authentically accept that.
The Mezza ‘ES’ M-Zero.
I don’t know if you have ever played any of the Mezzabarbarabarabarabba amps in their lineup?
This amp is a fantastic departure from the amps you’re trying to get away from.
Anybody reading this, you need to go faithfully check one of these out.
It’s so good, there’s too much to type about it
& now am just flipping it outta’ stand by….,
I have two RAD pedals coming in the mail today as well.
‘Adios!!

Congratulations on your new purchase!
Man.. it's always a great feeling when you see someone's genuine reaction when getting new gear and really digging it!
I have no doubt that the quality of Mezzabarbra amps is top notch.
But after my experience with the sale of my H&K Triamp 2 taking forever to sell, i won't do the same mistake again. I'll better stick with the big names as far as the resale is concerned
May you have many happy playing hours with your new gear my friend

 

[jabps]

We’ll, I can officially give an honest report of a high end, high gainer I just bought.
I’ve played it for nearly 30 hours and against
other amps in the jam room over the past week.

-I’m blown away.
It’s hard for me to authentically accept that.
The Mezza ‘ES’ M-Zero.
I don’t know if you have ever played any of the Mezzabarbarabarabarabba amps in their lineup?
This amp is a fantastic departure from the amps you’re trying to get away from.
Anybody reading this, you need to go faithfully check one of these out.
It’s so good, there’s too much to type about it
& now am just flipping it outta’ stand by….,
I have two RAD pedals coming in the mail today as well.
‘Adios!!

Owned the Mezzabarba Trinity and not for me. Nothing I could do to dial in tight rhythm sounds on that amp. Maybe the M-Zero is much different, that's actually the one I wanted but stumbled upon the Trinity which was a no go for me. Unbelievable build quality though. Really wanted to like that amp but no go.

 

[jabps]

Sounds like you’re on the right track to me. Impressive given you not being able to try all these amps. I’d though not recommend the TC, Rockerverb, EVH or Fryette’s for what you’re describing. I think the Badlander could possibly work really well. It’s got plenty of aggression, attack and definition. No worries there and more upper mids than other boogies, but don’t expect it to exactly be a Marshall. It also takes boosts really great and can be shaped to do a lot of different sounds with them. Pretty good cleans too. I think some guys were just disappointed because the lows aren’t as big as other Recto’s or Mark’s, but they should definitely have more lows than most Marshall’s & Solandos. They also imo need adequate volume to shine

Agreed on the Fryette as well. My Fryette is a very different beast than my JVM's and EVH's. I also agree that he probably needs to give the Badlander a go.

 

[Achilles]

Can someone compare the distortion sound characteristics between the Badlander 100 ch2 Crush setting - Triple Crown 100 ch3 (with and without the tight switch) - Mark V 90w ch3 mark4 & extreme settings?

 

[braintheory]

Congratulations on your new purchase!
Man.. it's always a great feeling when you see someone's genuine reaction when getting new gear and really digging it!
I have no doubt that the quality of Mezzabarbra amps is top notch.
But after my experience with the sale of my H&K Triamp 2 taking forever to sell, i won't do the same mistake again. I'll better stick with the big names as far as the resale is concerned
May you have many happy playing hours with your new gear my friend

I was actually able to sell my Mezzabarba when I had it on reverb very quickly for what it’s worth, but either way I’m not so sure if it’ll exactly be the sound you’re looking for based on the later criteria you added

 

[braintheory]

Can someone compare the distortion sound characteristics between the Badlander 100 ch2 Crush setting - Triple Crown 100 ch3 (with and without the tight switch) - Mark V 90w ch3 mark4 & extreme settings?

I’ve only tried the 50 watt triple crown fwiw, but either way it was a real let down for me and kinda generic sounding. My memory is a little vague now, but I think it was sorta in between a mark and recto but closer to a mark, but I remember thinking how much worse and less punchy it was sounding when I AB’ed it with a JP2C. The Mark V ch3 and BL ch2 are modernized takes of a mark vs recto sound kinda. You already know the mark sound, so just a imagine a sort of more modern, polished, smooth take of that sound on mark v’s ch3 and the BL like a more upper midrange-y, attacky, more modern recto flavor. I tend to favor the crush mode to crunch most of the time, but all the modes on that amp can be cool

 

[TX6Strings]

Can someone compare the distortion sound characteristics between the Badlander 100 ch2 Crush setting - Triple Crown 100 ch3 (with and without the tight switch) - Mark V 90w ch3 mark4 & extreme settings?

 

[Achilles]

based on the later criteria you added

The sound criteria for the 2 dirty sounds I'm going for (modernized heavy jcm 800/heavy alternative + melodeath brutal) haven't changed.

I'm just trying to figure out if I can get what I want out of the 2 amps I already have (mark v & recto mw). Or
If i have to sell anything and buy a Badlander 100 vs an EVH 100W black stealth 6L6 plus a separate Fender reverb amp for the cleans.

 

[glpg80]

The sound criteria for the 2 dirty sounds I'm going for (modernized heavy jcm 800/heavy alternative + melodeath brutal) haven't changed.

I'm just trying to figure out if I can get what I want out of the 2 amps I already have (mark v & recto mw). Or
If i have to sell anything and buy a Badlander 100 vs an EVH 100W black stealth 6L6 plus a separate Fender reverb amp for the cleans.

Or bogner ecstasy, pick your flavor

Ecstasy was going to be a suggestion of mine as well.

Bogner XTC 101b as mentioned earlier.

Hit the blue channel with an SD-1 and you’re in Zakk wylde territory. I’m a huge ZW fan and love my old 90’

You’re killing me smalls