thread on larry amps and who he says ripped him off!

[WarHed]

Do you want me to hang it in here?
About 40 HiQ photos, the NATAS schem aso.

Go on

Ive been inside the Fartin natas and can also confirm there's no Garnet in there.

 

[GuitarGoat]

Can the whole "I have proof but won't show it" nonsense stop here? If there's proof that there's a copy of a schematic, then share it. This stuff isn't rocket science as it is. There's only so many ways to do things, so if there's photos of Grind and Girth controls layed out like the Garnet schematic (and then with some values changed like Mike said), then that would be that. If there's some drastically different topology there, then maybe Mike wasn't up front about it. If Larry can then show the same topology or values in his amp, then case closed. This stuff is simple enough to at least have an idea of where it came from (like the 39k-ohm resistor in the SLO, then in the Rectifier schematic, etc...) or what it's similar to. Add some value to your posts here, guys...

 

[scottosan]

Can the whole "I have proof but won't show it" nonsense stop here? If there's proof that there's a copy of a schematic, then share it. This stuff isn't rocket science as it is. There's only so many ways to do things, so if there's photos of Grind and Girth controls layed out like the Garnet schematic (and then with some values changed like Mike said), then that would be that. If there's some drastically different topology there, then maybe Mike wasn't up front about it. If Larry can then show the same topology or values in his amp, then case closed. This stuff is simple enough to at least have an idea of where it came from (like the 39k-ohm resistor in the SLO, then in the Rectifier schematic, etc...) or what it's similar to. Add some value to your posts here, guys...

I don't think it's necessary to share when Fortin already has the reputation in the tech community for most of his product line being lifted designs. It's okay to have designs based of other designs. But when you market them as your own design, it show a lack of integrity.

 

[GuitarGoat]

Can the whole "I have proof but won't show it" nonsense stop here? If there's proof that there's a copy of a schematic, then share it. This stuff isn't rocket science as it is. There's only so many ways to do things, so if there's photos of Grind and Girth controls layed out like the Garnet schematic (and then with some values changed like Mike said), then that would be that. If there's some drastically different topology there, then maybe Mike wasn't up front about it. If Larry can then show the same topology or values in his amp, then case closed. This stuff is simple enough to at least have an idea of where it came from (like the 39k-ohm resistor in the SLO, then in the Rectifier schematic, etc...) or what it's similar to. Add some value to your posts here, guys...

I don't think it's necessary to share when Fortin already has the reputation in the tech community for most of his product line being lifted designs. It's okay to have designs based of other designs. But when you market them as your own design, it show a lack of integrity.

I agree with that, I don’t agree that it shouldn’t be shared then. It’s not really a worthwhile conversation if both sides just say they’re correct.

What designs are the lifted ones? 33, Grind, and Blade are basically a TC Electronic Integrated Pre...what else? For those pedals I’m not sure I’ve seen anything saying they’re new designs, but also haven’t seen anything saying what they are derived from.

 

[Krull]

Can the whole "I have proof but won't show it" nonsense stop here? If there's proof that there's a copy of a schematic, then share it. This stuff isn't rocket science as it is. There's only so many ways to do things, so if there's photos of Grind and Girth controls layed out like the Garnet schematic (and then with some values changed like Mike said), then that would be that. If there's some drastically different topology there, then maybe Mike wasn't up front about it. If Larry can then show the same topology or values in his amp, then case closed. This stuff is simple enough to at least have an idea of where it came from (like the 39k-ohm resistor in the SLO, then in the Rectifier schematic, etc...) or what it's similar to. Add some value to your posts here, guys...

I don't think it's necessary to share when Fortin already has the reputation in the tech community for most of his product line being lifted designs. It's okay to have designs based of other designs. But when you market them as your own design, it show a lack of integrity.

Precisely what Jim Marshall did...

 

[paulyc]

Maybe Fartin is searching the globe right now to find the next amp design to pilfer and pass off as a wet stank Fartin original.

Hahahahaaaaahahaaah - for this funny wording I'd like to grant you some kind of a personal Larry decoration

Maybe send him a free amp ???

 

[paulyc]

Well, this is why none of us get on forums anymore. Such nonsense. This was already addressed, and in this thread as well, but no matter, let's just blast a great guy. Too bad Steve_k (R.I.P.) isn't alive anymore to bring more reality into this nonsense. Here it is again, and I guess I won't get on this forum for another 6 months at minimum. People need to stop blowing this nonsense out of proportion. This idea has been published for years.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=56786&p=667137&hilit=book#p667137

In case people can't be arsed to click once:

"Thanks for the kind words Larry
I have a lot of respect for you as a builder and I think you're one of the top amp manufacturers out there.

Just a simple application of technology and nothing for me to take credit for.
To be specific, the Hulk mod Girth and Grind are connect like Page 6 of the link below, Garnet Gnome G15T, but with different values. The controls located between V1 and V2.
http://www.el34world.com/charts/Schematics/Garnet.pdf

These types of "tone controls" are dicussed in the following as reference:
Merlin Blencowe’s “Designing Tube Preamps For Guitar and Bass” under the chapter of “Tone controls and Tone stacks” starting on page 229. TUT series books also goes over some cool simple shelving controls as well as RDH 4th edition, chapter 15 Tone Compensations and Tone Controls sub title continuously – variable controls – general. Also Gar’s great little book also discusses some great variable single treble and bass filters. http://www.garnetamps.com/book.htm

Cheers,
Mike"

The real REASON you and some other shills avoid forums is a very simple and obvious one....you won't be able to DELETE or BAN anyone here for disagreeing with your 'Putin' like tactics when it comes to any type of criticism sent your or Fortin Amps way. You know..like anyone questioning Fortin products quality, where they are built, price, etc. ANYTHING that is even slightly negative, you have no control over.
Simple and obvious. You just have to sit there, read it and TAKE IT. No control for you.
Unlike the Fortin FB page...just delete to your little hearts content...I mean, how DARE anyone ask a legitimate question on where the amp/pedal is made...how DARE they?? Oh snap I'll delete the post and BAN THEM.
Problem solved, right shill? Right.
So you can just go back and disappear into your self serving bullshit FB page where you control everything.
Fortin Army my ass.

I agree with this whole post, especially the FB thing. That "guy" Zach is an overly sensitive douche.

 

[controlled_voltage]

this is a a legendary historical high gain amp builder brawl!
*gets popcorn
imma go play my monomyth and smile at the drama free insanity it produces
edit - also gotta give props to nik at ceriatone for never hiding his thefts!

 

[technomancer]

It's funny but actual photos of one of the Randall amps with the LF / Girth and HF / Grind controls show that it is clearly not the above referenced Garnet tone stack.

This is the Garnet Gnome tone stack referenced...



and below is a gutshot of the LF / Girth and HF / Grind controls on one of the Randalls... both pots in the Garnet schematic are single gang while the LF is clearly a dual gang pot in the actual amp so the Fortin controls are clearly not this:

"To be specific, the Hulk mod Girth and Grind are connect like Page 6 of the link below, Garnet Gnome G15T, but with different values."

Could be an altered version adjusting multiple components of the filter or other things in the circuit but it isn't just the Garnet with different values.

 

[GuitarGoat]

It's funny but actual photos of one of the Randall amps with the LF / Girth and HF / Grind controls show that it is clearly not the above referenced Garnet tone stack.

This is the Garnet Gnome tone stack referenced...

and below is a gutshot of the LF / Girth and HF / Grind controls on one of the Randalls... both pots in the Garnet schematic are single gang while the LF is clearly a dual gang pot in the actual amp so the Fortin controls are clearly not this:

"To be specific, the Hulk mod Girth and Grind are connect like Page 6 of the link below, Garnet Gnome G15T, but with different values."

Could be an altered version adjusting multiple components of the filter or other things in the circuit but it isn't just the Garnet with different values.

Interesting...just playing devil’s advocate, but in my mind there’s definitely a couple different scenarios this could be pointing to (I don’t know what else has been discovered from the gutshots so it’s possible these aren’t plausible either the dual-gang potentiometer is evidence this is a different topology altogether and could be from the Larry circuit if that has that too, or the dual-gang potentiometer is a modification to the Garnet circuit and it’s innovation on that topology.

I agree some of the marketing and social media of the business has been off-putting, but I’d be curious about seeing a little more evidence that this is blatant copying of a design.

 

[technomancer]

It's funny but actual photos of one of the Randall amps with the LF / Girth and HF / Grind controls show that it is clearly not the above referenced Garnet tone stack.

This is the Garnet Gnome tone stack referenced...

and below is a gutshot of the LF / Girth and HF / Grind controls on one of the Randalls... both pots in the Garnet schematic are single gang while the LF is clearly a dual gang pot in the actual amp so the Fortin controls are clearly not this:

"To be specific, the Hulk mod Girth and Grind are connect like Page 6 of the link below, Garnet Gnome G15T, but with different values."

Could be an altered version adjusting multiple components of the filter or other things in the circuit but it isn't just the Garnet with different values.

Interesting...just playing devil’s advocate, but in my mind there’s definitely a couple different scenarios this could be pointing to (I don’t know what else has been discovered from the gutshots so it’s possible these aren’t plausible either the dual-gang potentiometer is evidence this is a different topology altogether and could be from the Larry circuit if that has that too, or the dual-gang potentiometer is a modification to the Garnet circuit and it’s innovation on that topology.

I agree some of the marketing and social media of the business has been off-putting, but I’d be curious about seeing a little more evidence that this is blatant copying of a design.

Yep, was just pointing out that the statement that it is the Garnet Gnome stack with different values is clearly not true.

 

[GuitarGoat]

It's funny but actual photos of one of the Randall amps with the LF / Girth and HF / Grind controls show that it is clearly not the above referenced Garnet tone stack.

This is the Garnet Gnome tone stack referenced...

and below is a gutshot of the LF / Girth and HF / Grind controls on one of the Randalls... both pots in the Garnet schematic are single gang while the LF is clearly a dual gang pot in the actual amp so the Fortin controls are clearly not this:

"To be specific, the Hulk mod Girth and Grind are connect like Page 6 of the link below, Garnet Gnome G15T, but with different values."

Could be an altered version adjusting multiple components of the filter or other things in the circuit but it isn't just the Garnet with different values.

Interesting...just playing devil’s advocate, but in my mind there’s definitely a couple different scenarios this could be pointing to (I don’t know what else has been discovered from the gutshots so it’s possible these aren’t plausible either the dual-gang potentiometer is evidence this is a different topology altogether and could be from the Larry circuit if that has that too, or the dual-gang potentiometer is a modification to the Garnet circuit and it’s innovation on that topology.

I agree some of the marketing and social media of the business has been off-putting, but I’d be curious about seeing a little more evidence that this is blatant copying of a design.

Yep, was just pointing out that the statement that it is the Garnet Gnome stack with different values is clearly not true.

For sure.

Sorry...just took me a minute to get there.

 

[jasonP]

It's funny but actual photos of one of the Randall amps with the LF / Girth and HF / Grind controls show that it is clearly not the above referenced Garnet tone stack.

This is the Garnet Gnome tone stack referenced...



and below is a gutshot of the LF / Girth and HF / Grind controls on one of the Randalls... both pots in the Garnet schematic are single gang while the LF is clearly a dual gang pot in the actual amp so the Fortin controls are clearly not this:

"To be specific, the Hulk mod Girth and Grind are connect like Page 6 of the link below, Garnet Gnome G15T, but with different values."

Could be an altered version adjusting multiple components of the filter or other things in the circuit but it isn't just the Garnet with different values.

I could be wrong but I don't believe the Satan and the Natas are the same circuit designs. It would be cool to compare the schematics. I really don't think there is anything new anymore and everything is really just a copy or somewhat borrowed designed from another.

I would be surprised if the grind and girth controls are exact copies of Larrys circuit.

 

[Krull]

Don’t worry guys. Technoprancer is on the case.

 

[paulyc]

Here we go...

 

[Krull]

Although I don’t condone stealing someone else’s hard earned work, unless it was patented it’s a free for all in the amp circuit world no?

Do I need to list all the amps that are copies of originals? Jim Marshall is the biggest thief to ever enter the amp world. Yet everyone thinks Marshall’s are the shit.

At this point the same people are parroting the same talking points. We already knew about this shit years ago. Now Fortin has blown up and Larry is still a one man shop. Both are doing fine. It’s not like Larry would be able to keep up with the demand anyway.

 

[hstlaurent]

The problem with patents is that there is huge costs to enforce them. And you need to have them in multiple countries.

 

[scottosan]

Although I don’t condone stealing someone else’s hard earned work, unless it was patented it’s a free for all in the amp circuit world no?

Do I need to list all the amps that are copies of originals? Jim Marshall is the biggest thief to ever enter the amp world. Yet everyone thinks Marshall’s are the shit.

At this point the same people are parroting the same talking points. We already knew about this shit years ago. Now Fortin has blown up and Larry is still a one man shop. Both are doing fine. It’s not like Larry would be able to keep up with the demand anyway.

I don't think Larry is wishing to pursue any litigation, he's just drawing attention to what people have been saying for a long time and what people have been ignoring for a long time, that Mike like to pawn other peoples designs off as his own. The industry severely lacks transparency

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Although I don’t condone stealing someone else’s hard earned work, unless it was patented it’s a free for all in the amp circuit world no?

Do I need to list all the amps that are copies of originals? Jim Marshall is the biggest thief to ever enter the amp world. Yet everyone thinks Marshall’s are the shit.

At this point the same people are parroting the same talking points. We already knew about this shit years ago. Now Fortin has blown up and Larry is still a one man shop. Both are doing fine. It’s not like Larry would be able to keep up with the demand anyway.

I don't think Larry is wishing to pursue any litigation, he's just drawing attention to what people have been saying for a long time and what people have been ignoring for a long time, that Mike like to pawn other peoples designs off as his own. The industry severely lacks transparency

Honesty. Fartin’s sharten designs and business practices lack it completely. Just like his Meshuggah amps ghost-built by Metro Amps and shipped to unknowing customers that paid in advance. And what ever happened to that mythical 4th gain stage? $3500 for a kit amp ghost-built by a third party... better be about 1.5 kg of some extra pure Colombia's finest in there. Some people couldn’t be creative if their life depended on it. But honesty... it’s usually a given if you want to build a successful business.

Shady. Very shady. I wonder what the Fartin Army would have to say???

 

[WizardSouth-JP]