thread on larry amps and who he says ripped him off!

[LP Freak]

This thread is almost reaching Cameron status.

 

[maddnotez]

I did, I'm guessing everyone did but I did not want to comment on that out of respect. I didn't know him and I don't know the story. If Larry owed him money then yes he should pay up but that is completely irrelevant to the topic.

Can someone shed some light on this?

Who is "boogiedepot" over there at TGP ?

By any means it couldn't be Steve K or in his order, since what he wrote there is free pulled out of someones fingers.

And when did Steve K pass away? Is there a thread here or on TGP ?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=203683&hilit=Steve


Steve was a very well respected member here as you may know. I do not go to TGP much so I can't say if it was discussed there or not.

I do not have a dog in this fight Larry but I will say I do not like Fortin's business practices (never have) and now that I have learned about these "borrowed ideas" and him sending an attorney to Cease production on a clone of Fortin's stolen clone.....That leaves a very bad taste in my mouth all things Fortin so I am on your side....

BUT I will also say and I am aware this is none of my business. If there was an unfinished amp or a deposit sitting for Steve K...The right thing to do would be to send his widow the finished amp to sell or refund.

Mixed feelings here as the way this was presented was in poor taste and possibly to deflect the real issue at hand here but....it is what it is right and wrong. whatever. Not my business , just my opinions.

This thread is almost reaching Cameron status.

 

[lester]

It's pretty simple - did you, or did you not take 2000 dollars from Steve King?

Not everything is as simple as it seems at first sight.
This is not the place, to discuss my business internals with non relatives.

Yeah it is that simple

"Sent him a $2000 deposit 5 or 6 years ago. He said 18 months for a Dino build. At the end of a year, I started checking. He had more excuses than Kellogg's has Cornflakes. Lied on the build status and tried to offer me his personal one instead. All disturbing signs. After a another year I told him to stick it up his a**, keep the deposit and do whatever he does. Deposit was wired so I couldn't collect. Never heard from him again."

 

[novosibir]

Sent him a $2000 deposit 5 or 6 years ago...

You obviously can't read or you need new glasses.

 

[novosibir]

If there was an unfinished amp or a deposit sitting for Steve K...The right thing to do would be to send his widow the finished amp to sell or refund,

This of corse is out of any question.
I'll go in touch with his widow and will straighten this concern.
To be honest - I've really been shocked, as I've heard of he's passed away just 2 days ago.
I've had so many good mails with him back & forth. So sad

 

[maddnotez]

If there was an unfinished amp or a deposit sitting for Steve K...The right thing to do would be to send his widow the finished amp to sell or refund,

This of corse is out of any question.
I'll go in touch with his widow and will straighten this concern.
To be honest - I've really been shocked, as I've heard of he's passed away just 2 days ago.
I've had so many good mails with him back & forth. So sad

Yeah, I actually just saw this reply and missed it earlier....Otherwise I would have not even commented.

Now, shall I tell Steve's widow to contact you or would you prefer to do it directly?

Yes please, I'd be happy to finally get this straight. Didn't know yet about Steve's passing.

Sorry.....Forums can be a shit show sometimes lol

 

[lester]

If there was an unfinished amp or a deposit sitting for Steve K...The right thing to do would be to send his widow the finished amp to sell or refund,

I've had so many good mails with him back & forth. So sad

like the time when he was telling you to take his 2 grand you stole from him and cram it up your ass....yeah, good times.

 

[novosibir]

like the time when he was telling you to take his 2 grand you stole from him and cram it up your ass....yeah, good times.

Hey - put your left hand onto the bible and raise your right hand up, then tell me:
Get you paid from someone to provoke riot and disbelief on this place?

 

[lester]

like the time when he was telling you to take his 2 grand you stole from him and cram it up your ass....yeah, good times.

Hey - put your left hand onto the bible and raise your right hand up, then tell me:
Get you paid from someone to provoke riot and disbelief on this place?

Nah, that's not how it works Larry.
Just make amends and quit doing that kind of shit in the future.

Like I said, pretty simple.

 

[rstites]

I'll have to disagree with you, unless you can point to a fender bassman schematic in the RCA Reciving Tube manual.
http://www.nj7p.org/Manuals/PDFs/Tubes/ ... 4-1940.pdf

I've looked through it, and I don't find what you're calming. Leo (his engineer's), and other's used this manual to aid in building their circuits. Same thing goes on to this very day, companies offer examples, design notes, and dev kits to sell their Silicon.

I would say they probably started with the Microphone, and Phonograph Amplifier on page 213 chapter 14-15. Then expanded on that.

Marshal plagiarized Fender, it was almost an exact copy. If you find the bassman circuit that Marshal copied in the RCA Manual, then I'll conceed.

Fender was already an experienced PA and radio technician and designer in the 1930's. By the time he got to guitar amps, he had design experience. The Receiving Tube manual helps leading you through the process of using their tubes to get the building blocks, but it does take some technical known how to use them. He didn't just copy-and-paste from those manuals. He gets shorted when that is suggested. His early amps were simple, but they did require some design and fine tuning from him. (The same is almost certainly true of the other handful of early amp manufacturers that competed with him.)*

It may well be fair to suggest that his early guitar amps were just taken straight from the PA amps he'd already built. I don't know, so can't say for certain.

The earliest Marshalls are lifted directly from the Bassman. Fenders were expensive to import into Britain, so Marshall had Bran build their own in-house using commonly available British parts: hence the change to EL-34's and the specific transformers used in Marshalls vs. Fenders. I'm a little hesitant to call it plagiarism because Marshall never claimed otherwise. (Plagiarism is passing off someone else's work as your own. Lifting someone else's work and acknowledging it is something else. I'm not certain what, but it's something else. )

* Note: I'm an EE. I use manufacturer data sheets and suggested circuits when working with their products. They're necessary to make use of them. However, and suggestion that I just copied-and-pasted them would be absurd. For one, if it was that easy do you think anyone would pay me a EE salary, rather than hiring someone off the street to copy-n-paste those circuits?

 

[rstites]

I'll have to disagree with you, unless you can point to a fender bassman schematic in the RCA Reciving Tube manual.
http://www.nj7p.org/Manuals/PDFs/Tubes/ ... 4-1940.pdf

I've looked through it, and I don't find what you're calming. Leo (his engineer's), and other's used this manual to aid in building their circuits. Same thing goes on to this very day, companies offer examples, design notes, and dev kits to sell their Silicon.

I would say they probably started with the Microphone, and Phonograph Amplifier on page 213 chapter 14-15. Then expanded on that.

Marshal plagiarized Fender, it was almost an exact copy. If you find the bassman circuit that Marshal copied in the RCA Manual, then I'll conceed.

Fender was already an experienced PA and radio technician and designer in the 1930's. By the time he got to guitar amps, he had design experience. The Receiving Tube manual helps leading you through the process of using their tubes to get the building blocks, but it does take some technical known how to use them. He didn't just copy-and-paste from those manuals. He gets shorted when that is suggested. His early amps were simple, but they did require some design and fine tuning from him. (The same is almost certainly true of the other handful of early amp manufacturers that competed with him.)*

It may well be fair to suggest that his early guitar amps were just taken straight from the PA amps he'd already built. I don't know, so can't say for certain.

The earliest Marshalls are lifted directly from the Bassman. Fenders were expensive to import into Britain, so Marshall had Bran build their own in-house using commonly available British parts: hence the change to EL-34's and the specific transformers used in Marshalls vs. Fenders. I'm a little hesitant to call it plagiarism because Marshall never claimed otherwise. (Plagiarism is passing off someone else's work as your own. Lifting someone else's work and acknowledging it is something else. I'm not certain what, but it's something else. )

* Note: I'm an EE. I use manufacturer data sheets and suggested circuits when working with their products. They're necessary to make use of them. However, and suggestion that I just copied-and-pasted them would be absurd. For one, if it was that easy do you think anyone would pay me a EE salary, rather than hiring someone off the street to copy-n-paste those circuits?

Right coincides with what I said. I'm not an EE, but I'm a software engineer, and I do work with hardware, and have designed circuits for commercial use. If I'm working with/programming for a silicon device, I can draw up a circuit using the manual, examples, and knowledge I've gained over the last 25 years.

Anyhow unless Marshall initially acknowledged their amp as Fenders original work, then It was Plagiarized. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't I don't know I wasn't around that far back. I guess someone would have to dig up publications, or recording, and/or documents showing where Marshall stated his amp is a Fender copy, then we could say's it's not a plagiarism but just a copy.

I wasn't around then either, but I recall something to the affect that Fender's were too expensive for the kids/players to purchase, so they built their own so the kids/players could get them. I never had the impression that they announced it loudly or anything, but they didn't try to disguise it either. This is from the History of Marshall book published 20 years ago, or so. I'll try to remember to look it up when I get home tonight.

The thing with circuits is that they aren't in any way protected intellectual property, unless you can get and defend a patent, so they're considered fair game to lift and use by anyone. It's fairly unique to the boutique amplifier world to treat them in that manner.

 

[Luca79]

To me copy someone else efforts is bad as take a deposit of 2k YEARS before an amp can be made and shipped

 

[novosibir]

To me copy someone else efforts is bad as take a deposit of 2k YEARS before an amp can be made and shipped

[irony]For those like you with a low budged especially I've published very detailled photos on my Facebook page.
So go ahead and rip off what you can get, as long as I keep them posted.
Actually I've published the photos for MF, so that he hasn't to buy another amp once again from me, the poor boy[/irony]

 

[rstites]

The thing with circuits is that they aren't in any way protected intellectual property, unless you can get and defend a patent, so they're considered fair game to lift and use by anyone. It's fairly unique to the boutique amplifier world to treat them in that manner.

Yes absolutely, I'm fully aware. We reverse engineer, and build our own clones over at http://www.slocloneforums.com/ But what we don't do Is call it our own, or try to profit off it. While it may not be illegal, it still make you a dick to profit of other peoples work, and give no credit. At the least people like Fortin should be exposed so his customers can decide if they wan't to deal with a guy that passes others work off as his own.

I have a SloClone forum sign in, but I don't think I've ever posted over there. I'm amazed at the people with the patience to go through amps and reverse the schematic. It's something I could do, but I don't know that I'd have the patience!

FWIW, I agree with you in general. Like everyone else I tend to have a nuanced approach to it. Marshall was a little one man shop when he copied big Fender, so it seems less bad than copying a small guy. I know it isn't rational, but it's how I feel. As a general rule, I don't copy other people's amps. I just design my own, though I certainly have started with classic designs and gone from there.

I mostly run into problems with the fact that I've never done PCB's and the construction of chassis and boxes are things I can do, but challenge me more......and I'm too cheap to pay for them! I have a question for you. I know where the SLO Clone PCB's can be purchased. What about the other PCB's for the SloClone Forum? I'd like to pick up a few of those - if typologies are close enough, it's easy to use a PCB and modify it. Are they just all group buys for active members on the forum?

 

[novosibir]

To me copy someone else efforts is bad as take a deposit of 2k YEARS before an amp can be made and shipped

[irony]For those like you with a low budged especially I've published very detailled photos on my Facebook page.
So go ahead and rip off what you can get, as long as I keep them posted.
Actually I've published the photos for MF, so that he hasn't to buy another amp once again from me, the poor boy[/irony]

Luca, I see you located in Italy, what's not so far away from Germany, just 2 to 3 hours with your Lambo

[irony]Why don't you come by to me for a visit over the next weekend?
Bring along your laser equipment, so that you then even could take a 3D copy of my amps[/irony]

But leave your at home in Italy, otherwise I'd have to invite my two friends Smith&Wesson to our meeting

 

[Racerxrated]

The thing with circuits is that they aren't in any way protected intellectual property, unless you can get and defend a patent, so they're considered fair game to lift and use by anyone. It's fairly unique to the boutique amplifier world to treat them in that manner.

Yes absolutely, I'm fully aware. We reverse engineer, and build our own clones over at http://www.slocloneforums.com/ But what we don't do Is call it our own, or try to profit off it. While it may not be illegal, it still make you a dick to profit of other peoples work, and give no credit. At the least people like Fortin should be exposed so his customers can decide if they wan't to deal with a guy that passes others work off as his own.

This.

For anyone who doubts it, look at the other products...the pedals are clones of others work, with some changes....the amps are too. Except they are pretty spot on clones. And how much does he charge? To have them ghost-built by clowns who then have to ship BACK to Canada? Then Pass the charges on to YOU....unreal.

So far, none of Fortins products are much more than COPIES of others work. I mean, it's one thing to do a Jose mod...Jose passed away way back. Elan/Metalhead, he's currently trying to make/sell some preamps...but he's still here. Larry? Still around.
Pathetic for him to do this..how could he not think he'd eventually be found out?

 

[Krull]

^ blah blah blah. Maybe you should boycott Mesa boogie and Marshall while you’re at it. Then again I don’t expect much from you based on your other beliefs, you know what I’m talking about. Russia...

 

[novosibir]

Maybe you should boycott Mesa boogie...

You might be not so far off with this and it's an notable aspect. Let me tell you why:

It's already been back in the eary 80' and it might be just rumors - means, that also I don't know definitely...
... but at that time stories were floating around, that the actual originator and master mind of the overdriven preamp tube stage not Randy Smith of MESA/Boogie has been, but Howard Alexander Dumble, just by experimenting w/ Fender amps deactivating the reverb circuit, to put the remaining tube in line.
But, as the rumor (or the truth) says Randy has heard about this from a Musician, who's been here and there and then quickly quickly has pendet a patent on this.

I'm still curious, wheter it's rumor or truth.

Anyway - later it turned out, that MESA became big & bigger, but meanwhile the salesclerks throw a MESA behind you, if you leave the shop w/o one, whereas the prices of used Dumble's are growing up to the sky.

 

[paulyc]

^ blah blah blah. Maybe you should boycott Mesa boogie and Marshall while you’re at it. Then again I don’t expect much from you based on your other beliefs, you know what I’m talking about. Russia...

I was wondering when you’d get back around to your usual bullshit...

 

[Racerxrated]

^ blah blah blah. Maybe you should boycott Mesa boogie and Marshall while you’re at it. Then again I don’t expect much from you based on your other beliefs, you know what I’m talking about. Russia...

Maybe you should pull your head out your ass and stop spewing fake news bullshit all over the OT with your 5 friends. Oh wait, that's all you know how to do...good job defending Fartin the Thieving Lying Cheat, since he's a fellow Canuck like yourself I guess that's not too much of a stretch....

Funny though, since your a fan of another lying sack of shit who wants to cheat as much as possible, that you'd sit here and make excuses like the other Fartin defenders.

You know what they say, 'birds of a feather'...
Go back and hide out in the OT section. You have no business here.
You're just another lying sack of shit Foreigner. By the way, just to remind you, you can't vote. Too bad for you. How's that Green card coming?