Van Halen 1 and 2 gear and racks in HD

[Amp_chaser]

I think he did. There’s a really clear difference in say Little Dreamer and Ice Cream Man, in terms of light and dark. I’ve tried like hell to get VH tones out of my Marshall’s that just don’t exist, and that come effortlessly with my Fenders.

Who knows, i think it might be possible. We will never now the entire story. I believe that even Seymour Duncan has NDA agreements with evh and they seem to be in vigor even after his death which means that poeople in the industry still really respect a lot evh.

however one must remember there are many paths to the same tone. But sometimes it's very hard to find alternatives.

 

[Ben Waylin]

I think he did. There’s a really clear difference in say Little Dreamer and Ice Cream Man, in terms of light and dark. I’ve tried like hell to get VH tones out of my Marshall’s that just don’t exist, and that come effortlessly with my Fenders.

That's because the Bandmaster was the preamp.. he ran a cable out the AUX Speaker jack into 12301 input.

 

[hammered]

OP from the pics you posted I`m guessing you have these books ?

 

[harddriver]

One of the best overall technical reviews of what Ed used on the 78 VH tour was from a guy named Robin L on the Metro Amp forum years ago like around 2009/2010. I recommend finding that account and reading it in it's entirety. We broke all of this ground in the EVH section of the Metro amp forum almost 20 years ago. Too many guys on YouTube wailing through stock Germino, Metro, Metroamp kit, Suhr, and Friedman 68 plexi's showing the amp was mostly stock with no extra gain stages period.

https://forum.metropoulos.net/viewtopic.php?t=45834

http://web.archive.org/web/20110720060335/http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24704

Whoever the guy was... some thought it was Rudy Leiren but it seems he was not, he did appear to have some insight about the tour possibly another roadie, it was interesting nevertheless.

I can only say I've tried every iteration of Ed's setup, from Friedman's to Suhr descriptions and the Robin L slaving setups and they all work to get Ed's core tone using everything that is publicly known in his pedal board effect, no magical dust except what and how he used it plus his playing.

Ed was getting Ed's core tones from stock Marshall Superleads after 12301 was lost coming back from Japan and his tone was still awesome. If you watch the videos from the Selland arena Niagara Falls in the September of 78 all the amps were regular Superleads and Musicman HD130's and 65's. I currently own a 67 Bandmaster and Musicman HD130 and I guarantee you Ed's was not using them as a main amp but they are on stage and turned on. There are already lengthy threads on this RT forum about the Selland arena show if you want to look them up but here are videos of live shows that show what amps he was using at these shows.

Neither of these shows had 12301 plexi, it's all Superleads NO 12301 or plexi's. I'm not sure when he got 12301 and the wooden headbox plexi which was a Superbass(acccording to Dave Friedman and Robin L) back but he did get them back.

Niagara Falls Convention Center, NY September 8, 1978


Selland Arena September 22, 1978

 

[harddriver]

Thanks for posting all those pics, there are some I have not seen, very cool!

Ed didn't start using the Wireless units until the Japan leg of the tour and was wireless for the remainder of the tour. The shows prior to that appear to be plugged in.

 

[Ben Waylin]

Robin L

Dude was a frickin' gold mine of info.

 

[Lightning]

I remember when Steve Fryette had Edwards Marshall(The One)plexi on his bench he said it was closer to a 70s Marshall Superlead then a 68 Marshall plexi

 

[rsm]

 

[Amp_chaser]

OP from the pics you posted I`m guessing you have these books ?

Yes as no one ever think of posting them in HD. I think people deserve to see them in high quality. I wanted to buy the second one but i still didn't buy it. There are very good pictures on it too even if it's more focused on guitars.

 

[Amp_chaser]

we know there are many ways to emulate the tone however we are looking for the freaking original thing haha. Many think it's ed hands, others think it's the studio, others think it's josé, others think there was an unusual way of recording the guitar, others a secret piece of gear. It could also be a combinaison of these multiple facors.

However eddie slaving into a 2203 that's a new thing to learn.

i believe gain was achieved threw the eq, wireless systems and slaving + the compressors, however the coloring of the distortion and this is what makes van halen amazing still is a mystery. I believe it could just be diodes or transistors used by josé in a master volume. In my opinion and from my experiments people do mistakes when they try low voltage diodes and transistors... even if josé usually used low voltage ones it doesn't mean he always did it.

 

[rsm]

we know there are many ways to emulate the tone however we are looking for the freaking original thing haha. Many think it's ed hands, others think it's the studio, others think it's josé, others think there was an unusual way of recording the guitar, others a secret piece of gear. It could also be a combinaison of these multiple facors.

However eddie slaving into a 2203 that's a new thing to learn.

i believe gain was achieved threw the eq, wireless systems and slaving + the compressors, however the coloring of the distortion and this is what makes van halen amazing still is a mystery. I believe it could just be diodes or transistors used by josé in a master volume. In my opinion and from my experiments people do mistakes when they try low voltage diodes and transistors... even if josé usually used low voltage ones it doesn't mean he always did it.

I thought that emulation of VH-1 was very good IMO. Then again, I'm not chasing EVH tone so I could be missing something. I did see VH live in '78 opening for Black Sabbath Never Say Die tour, it was either Hartford or New Haven, CT. Cheers!

 

[Amp_chaser]

One of the best overall technical reviews of what Ed used on the 78 VH tour was from a guy named Robin L on the Metro Amp forum years ago like around 2009/2010. I recommend finding that account and reading it in it's entirety. We broke all of this ground in the EVH section of the Metro amp forum almost 20 years ago. Too many guys on YouTube wailing through stock Germino, Metro, Metroamp kit, Suhr, and Friedman 68 plexi's showing the amp was mostly stock with no extra gain stages period.

https://forum.metropoulos.net/viewtopic.php?t=45834

Whoever the guy was... some thought it was Rudy Leiren but it seems he was not, he did appear to have some insight about the tour possibly another roadie, it was interesting nevertheless.

I can only say I've tried every iteration of Ed's setup, from Friedman's to Suhr descriptions and the Robin L slaving setups and they all work to get Ed's core tone using everything that is publicly known in his pedal board effect, no magical dust except what and how he used it plus his playing.

Ed was getting Ed's core tones from stock Marshall Superleads after 12301 was lost coming back from Japan and his tone was still awesome. If you watch the videos from the Selland arena Niagara Falls in the September of 78 all the amps were regular Superleads and Musicman HD130's and 65's. I currently own a 67 Bandmaster and Musicman HD130 and I guarantee you Ed's was not using them as a main amp but they are on stage and turned on. There are already lengthy threads on this RT forum about the Selland arena show if you want to look them up but here are videos of live shows that show what amps he was using at these shows.

Neither of these shows had 12301 plexi, it's all Superleads NO 12301 or plexi's. I'm not sure when he got 12301 and the wooden headbox plexi which was a Superbass(acccording to Dave Friedman and Robin L) back but he did get them back.

Niagara Falls Convention Center, NY September 8, 1978


Selland Arena September 22, 1978

thanks for the info it's a shame that many of those old topics seem to be difficult to find. I know that the metroforums are a gold mine however it was something for niche tone geeks. I hope to make a video to share those infos with a lot of people.

it's funny he has the same reasoning that i had some months ago. I was like why the hell did eddy need a 100w amp + jtm 45 and vox amps for small clubs ? Then i tought that the super lead was attenuated to the max with the variac and you need another amp to get the output to a good level.

i've read his topic however there seems to be some infos lacking. However as you said it's a gold mine, Robin could have been someone close to somebody who worked directly with eddie. I don't believe he is rudy because rudy said that the phase 90 was modded and that eds plexi had a bias mod. Dweezil zappa also believes the phase 90 is modded and said once that its mod is a key component of eddies sound. However i don't know if we have to believe these stories...

he doesn't mention the noise gate that eddie used sometimes. You can see a picture of it hidden in the echoplex in 1978 even if it's not in use.

If robin was rudy he would be able to answer what was the knob behind the amp during vh1 and vh2. However i believe he got many infos right. He was certainly involved in a way or had an acquaintance directly involved.

 

[Amp_chaser]

One of the best overall technical reviews of what Ed used on the 78 VH tour was from a guy named Robin L on the Metro Amp forum years ago like around 2009/2010. I recommend finding that account and reading it in it's entirety. We broke all of this ground in the EVH section of the Metro amp forum almost 20 years ago. Too many guys on YouTube wailing through stock Germino, Metro, Metroamp kit, Suhr, and Friedman 68 plexi's showing the amp was mostly stock with no extra gain stages period.

https://forum.metropoulos.net/viewtopic.php?t=45834

Whoever the guy was... some thought it was Rudy Leiren but it seems he was not, he did appear to have some insight about the tour possibly another roadie, it was interesting nevertheless.

I can only say I've tried every iteration of Ed's setup, from Friedman's to Suhr descriptions and the Robin L slaving setups and they all work to get Ed's core tone using everything that is publicly known in his pedal board effect, no magical dust except what and how he used it plus his playing.

Ed was getting Ed's core tones from stock Marshall Superleads after 12301 was lost coming back from Japan and his tone was still awesome. If you watch the videos from the Selland arena Niagara Falls in the September of 78 all the amps were regular Superleads and Musicman HD130's and 65's. I currently own a 67 Bandmaster and Musicman HD130 and I guarantee you Ed's was not using them as a main amp but they are on stage and turned on. There are already lengthy threads on this RT forum about the Selland arena show if you want to look them up but here are videos of live shows that show what amps he was using at these shows.

Neither of these shows had 12301 plexi, it's all Superleads NO 12301 or plexi's. I'm not sure when he got 12301 and the wooden headbox plexi which was a Superbass(acccording to Dave Friedman and Robin L) back but he did get them back.

Niagara Falls Convention Center, NY September 8, 1978


Selland Arena September 22, 1978

Wow his sayings seem to corroborate my new findings in another way. I found out that one of the wooden marshall was modded and i thought it was extra gain stages while it could just be modded to be a power amp. That's what he says. Eddie had 2 wooden plexis thats what is interesting. we don't know which one Dave Friedman serviced. He never said he went into both of them and i believe he doesn't know eddie had 2 wooden plexis.

see there are 2 wooden plexis.

I believe this is one of the wooden ones. it had 2 knobs in the place of the 2 input jacks. I believe it was put back to stock after VH1.

however i know that DLR had an amp made by josé that apparently sounded like van halen and it also has 2 knobs for 2 extra gain stages. here it is :

those mods on the extra gain stage are insane... but as robin said it could have been repurposed as a power amp who knows...

 

[TheBiggestJerk]

One of the best overall technical reviews of what Ed used on the 78 VH tour was from a guy named Robin L on the Metro Amp forum years ago like around 2009/2010. I recommend finding that account and reading it in it's entirety. We broke all of this ground in the EVH section of the Metro amp forum almost 20 years ago. Too many guys on YouTube wailing through stock Germino, Metro, Metroamp kit, Suhr, and Friedman 68 plexi's showing the amp was mostly stock with no extra gain stages period.

https://forum.metropoulos.net/viewtopic.php?t=45834

Whoever the guy was... some thought it was Rudy Leiren but it seems he was not, he did appear to have some insight about the tour possibly another roadie, it was interesting nevertheless.

I can only say I've tried every iteration of Ed's setup, from Friedman's to Suhr descriptions and the Robin L slaving setups and they all work to get Ed's core tone using everything that is publicly known in his pedal board effect, no magical dust except what and how he used it plus his playing.

Ed was getting Ed's core tones from stock Marshall Superleads after 12301 was lost coming back from Japan and his tone was still awesome. If you watch the videos from the Selland arena Niagara Falls in the September of 78 all the amps were regular Superleads and Musicman HD130's and 65's. I currently own a 67 Bandmaster and Musicman HD130 and I guarantee you Ed's was not using them as a main amp but they are on stage and turned on. There are already lengthy threads on this RT forum about the Selland arena show if you want to look them up but here are videos of live shows that show what amps he was using at these shows.

Neither of these shows had 12301 plexi, it's all Superleads NO 12301 or plexi's. I'm not sure when he got 12301 and the wooden headbox plexi which was a Superbass(acccording to Dave Friedman and Robin L) back but he did get them back.

Niagara Falls Convention Center, NY September 8, 1978


Selland Arena September 22, 1978

Damn he wasn’t lying!

“Frankie: hard ash body, vintage fender tremolo bridge, brass nut, maple neck with maple cap fingerboard, original Gibson alnico II PAF pu rewounded by Seymour Duncan (prior to the recording of VH1).
Painted by Ed with bycicle paint.
Its neck pocket was not properly cut, the neck was slightly slanted downwards and the high E string was almost off the edge of the fingerboard behind the 12th fret.
It was not a nice job, rather a piece of shit guitar but Ed made it sound soooo good.”

 

[Amp_chaser]

Damn he wasn’t lying!

“Frankie: hard ash body, vintage fender tremolo bridge, brass nut, maple neck with maple cap fingerboard, original Gibson alnico II PAF pu rewounded by Seymour Duncan (prior to the recording of VH1).
Painted by Ed with bycicle paint.
Its neck pocket was not properly cut, the neck was slightly slanted downwards and the high E string was almost off the edge of the fingerboard behind the 12th fret.
It was not a nice job, rather a piece of shit guitar but Ed made it sound soooo good.”View attachment 345467

yes or he could also have seen this picture in a guitar magazine. I believe he got many things right but there are some infos that seem to lack and perhaps that he didn't share them on purpose. He mentions a lot of interestings things but what makes me think he doesn't bullshit it's the fact that he mentions the eq in front of the amp and this is a very important thing when you want to sound like eddie. Those who investigated know that if you put a genuine vintage mxr 6 band eq right in front of the plexi you are getting dangerously closer even if it's noisy. He perhaps had all the infos or perhaps could lack some or just refused to share them entirely. Guys like Rudy would never share everything.

 

[ChuggNorris]

I love this thread.

 

[Amp_chaser]

The thing about the schaffer vega is that even if no wireless was used live in the early days, sunset sound probably had already them during the 78 recordings and i believe it's the studio who made eddie discover this new weapon to eddie. I believe there is a schaffer vega involved during the 78 recordings and that's what made eddie use them later in VH2. However i could be wrong too.

 

[Ben Waylin]

The thing about the schaffer vega is that even if no wireless was used live in the early days, sunset sound probably had already them during the 78 recordings and i believe it's the studio who made eddie discover this new weapon to eddie. I believe there is a schaffer vega involved during the 78 recordings and that's what made eddie use them later in VH2. However i could be wrong too.

Teh SVDS wasn't used until the second record, but not on every track.

 

[Amp_chaser]

Teh SVDS wasn't used until the second record, but not on every track.

thx i believe you can be right too. do you know where i could find a source for this ? any sunset sound interview or any book ? Or even eddie saying it in a magazine ? anything you have i take it ^^.

 

[Ben Waylin]

thx i believe you can be right too. do you know where i could find a source for this ? any sunset sound interview or any book ? Or even eddie saying it in a magazine ? anything you have i take it ^^.