JackBootedThug
MURDERATOR
There’s one on guitar center used
What are your favorite 12AX7/ECC83 tubes for the phase inverter, effects loop and reverb slots? Why?
GuitarGuy08
Well-known member
Also, I tend to swap variants of the same tubes around once I find the one I like to 'hone in' on the frequencies I desire.
Went through about a dozen different Black plates in each position to see what fit best. I think I have found my settling point but really need to crank it to be sure
In a Marshall or UK flavored amp, I go Mullard in V1 and maybe other spots as well, but for the most part, the Blackplates just have it for me.
Funny how some of the first things made seem to be the best time and time again.
CDawg
Member
Siemens E83CC might not be your ideal tone for your gear like it is mine but no matter what it'll have the lowest levels of noise and microphony of any 12AX7. Personally tested about 1000 12AX7 on a Maxipreamp II. Got friends who have gone through thousands if not tens of thousands. Never heard anyone say they've heard or measured a quieter 12AX7. Most Siemens E83CC hover around 87 db per triode on a Maxipreamp II and seen some bouncing around 89.4. I've yet to see anything beat 90 db for a 12AX7. I know those EL34 would sound incredible. What have you had them in?
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braintheory
Well-known member
I still gotta try those E83CC’s in either case to leave no stone unturned haha. In other positions besides V1 some old US 12BZ7’s can cool. By nature they’re microphonic/noisy, but work ok in the other positions and would think with their headroom guys may like them for tube position where they want that
I had them in a 1967 Marshall Tremolo 50, Alessandro Redbone, Ronin J7GT, Mesa/Boogie Badlander, Rev D Recto (iirc), and a Hermansson modded Recto. It wasn’t the smartest choice in some of those amps as one pair of mine arced in one of those amps, but in all cases the tone was as good as it gets IME for EL34’s. My Valvo EL34 pair sounded like a brighter version of Bugle Boy’s. Also great and didn’t have any problems in those same amps
CDawg
Member
It's always best to trust your ears. Sounds good, is good. What black plates have you liked? I rely on measurements a lot and once I know what kind of flavour I'm looking for I'll go all out on stuff like V1 V2 but tend to cheap out as I get further down the circuit. Need to get out of that mentality.Also, I tend to swap variants of the same tubes around once I find the one I like to 'hone in' on the frequencies I desire.
Went through about a dozen different Black plates in each position to see what fit best. I think I have found my settling point but really need to crank it to be sure
In a Marshall or UK flavored amp, I go Mullard in V1 and maybe other spots as well, but for the most part, the Blackplates just have it for me.
Funny how some of the first things made seem to be the best time and time again.
I haven't met a person who didn't like Mullards. Maybe not perfect for every piece of gear but usually an excellent choice for just about anything. I need to try RCA black plates more. For whatever reason I just gravitated towards the European tubes and haven't really put a lot of time into the brands around the world.
CDawg
Member
Siemens E83CC. Quiet. Very similar and I think we took it a little too far. Fun times though. Haven't tried variants like that 12BZ7. I don't have enough understanding of the amplifier to experiment like that so I'm a bit timid. Plus I can't start collecting other preamp tubes. Those are awesome amps. Sorry to hear that. Stuff like that is why I'm so afraid to fill everything up with good tubes and I try to balance cost and tone. I'm putting that Shuguang in the effects loops of a Rectifier that I'll bypass to try to save a few bucks lol.
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braintheory
Well-known member
Very similar to what? Not sure I understand. My tech gave me the ok to use 12BZ7’s interchangeably with 12AX7’s and they’re usually very cheap. They sound to me like a higher headroom, punchier 12AX7 with more extended lows and highs and more scooped mids. I like Shuguang’s too, especially in Recto’s. For amps like my Ronin I actually love the Shuguang 6SJ7 octal pre
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braintheory
Well-known member
Yeah in high gain amps I usually prefer European or Chinese tubes. The American tubes come off a bit cleaner and hollow. I usually prefer them in lower gain American voiced amps like a blackface Fender. Mullard’s are definitely great, I just in most cases I think would go with Fivre or ‘50’s Tungsram’s. I like RFT’s too
Bash_Man
Well-known member
I'll probably get rocks thrown at me for saying this.. LOL.. but I tried everything from Sovtek, EH, Tungsol, Mullard, JJ, and a bunch of other tubes.. and went back to just simply using JJ ECC83S in everything (V2, V3, V4) (V1 is clean and have a 12AT7 in there).. They work and last long, they sound tight and clear.. plenty of gain on tap as well... and with the last batch I got, its almost like they sound brighter than earlier gen JJ ECC83S. I actually had to turn down my Treble dial on the amp (Splawn Nitro).
I know many people swear by the Sovtek 12AX7LPS in the PI Socket. I tried it, and at first it sounded good but when i swapped with other tubes, it was actaully one of my least fav. in that socket. But it all depends on the amp and how you set it.
Good luck..
I know many people swear by the Sovtek 12AX7LPS in the PI Socket. I tried it, and at first it sounded good but when i swapped with other tubes, it was actaully one of my least fav. in that socket. But it all depends on the amp and how you set it.
Good luck..
psychodave
Well-known member
I have both, but prefer grey plates.
I certainly use my tube testers to fund the highest TC for the PI slot (I’m not looking for matching sides as some feel matched PI tubes sound more balanced). I think the longer plates add more dynamics to the sound. Of course the long plates can also add microphonics as well. Your ears may tell you differently, so have fun tinkering.
GuitarGuy08
Well-known member
The RCA Blackplates are like being 'wide open' in a lot of ways with that extra low mid thump. The UK amps do very well with European and British tubes because they tend to smooth out a lot of frequencies. I would say the RCA Blackplates are my favorite amongst the several blackplate makers I found, including Sylvania. The Sylvania Blackplates are so 'tubey' sounding it's wild! It may be your thing, as they can be super enjoyable mixed in V1 with a Mullard output stage (el84 in this case) in a Vox for a sound that reminds me of the speech bubbles in a comic book. Like each note you play is in a tube bubble or something. Very fun to play with.
CDawg
Member
Sounds like we both have a lot of tubes. I'm all in on 12AX7s and a few power tubes and don't want to expand much further. I'm sure that won't last forever but I'm trying to keep it that way. I will look into 12BZ7s and 6SJ7 though. Tubes are like 45% of my gear budget lol. Help! Don't know exactly what it is but just always like European tubes best. I know it's a bit of a generalization but I found European to be more harmonic and US more fundamental. I find a lot of time amps sound excellent with the stock tubes. Not many Fivres here but definitely got some Tungsram. RFT is a love/hate with me I love to use it for controlling the treble, has great gain but sometimes I think the lows sound great and other times I wish they had a little more there.
CDawg
Member
I regularly stand up for JJ and think they have some decent preamp tubes but I don't like their power tubes. JJ E83CC is awesome. It's funny how someone can like one tube and not another or you could like a tube in one piece of gear and not another. Just because it sounds awesome in your guitar amplifier doesn't mean it sounds ideal in another guitar amplifier or something entirely different like a HAM radio or part of a hifi rig that uses the same tube. I like all the Russian long plates personally. I just accept that everyone has their perceptions and preferences.
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braintheory
Well-known member
Yeah I have a wide variety of amps that use all sorts of different tube type and try to explore each rabbit hole as fully as I can, so I have over 12 shelves fully stuffed with vintage tubes lol, from the various type of rectifier tubes, octal pre's, EF86's to the more normal preamp and powertubes. It seems you're more thorough than me with a lot of preamp tubes you have. 12BZ7's are cheap enough where you may as well imo try just one and see what you think. Too noisy in V1, but ok elsewhere in general. I don't know of any other guitar amp that uses 6SJ7's besides Ronin's, part of their unique features. Octal preamp tubes can be cool though
I agree in general with American vs European tubes in that way. I don't use American tubes that often in high gain amps besides of course 6L6's or 6550's. I'm a very big Fivre fan. I like the mids and lower mids of RFT's and gain like you said and they have that precise German quality to the sound that I also hear in Siemens and Telefunken's, but not in Valvo's actually. I especially like RFT EL34's, 6L6's, 6V6's and GZ34's
CDawg
Member
I take a similar strategy with the high TC for the PI slot. As for the matched... guitars amps are weird creatures and anything goes... running a hifi rig with mono blocks... I can imagine where balancing could be more critical. I have a couple of thoughts about the whole long plates and microphonics. Heard a lot of tubes and initially some of the long plates are a lot quieter than nearly all short plates. However over time I think long plates go microphonic quicker than short plates. Not sure why; just an observation. I know my ears are the ultimate test but some days I just don't trust them. I don't think a Maxipreamp II ever lied to me. EI on the list. Curiosity is killing me though; what's the best you've seen for noise on a Maxipreamp II?
Bash_Man
Well-known member
100%.. I did also have the JJ E83CC as well, which was really old.. and a friend of mine was over and he had all JJ's in one of his amps. So he let me try them in the Nitro. Was really Surprised how good they sounded. So I ordered some.
For power tubes, I like the JJ EL34II. A lot of people seem to like them as well compared to the original JJ EL34.
Only other 2 power tubes I really liked were the SED Winged -C- EL34s and Ruby EL34BSTR. Both of those tubes sounded great. Sadly the -C- is not made anymore and way too expensive as NOS.. and the Ruby from what I've seen their QC isn't as it used to be.
Cheers
CDawg
Member
I've asked a bunch of people around and Beijing Triple Mica 6N4-J, EI, Philips short plates, RCA black plates and Telefunken smooth plates always get brought up in general so I'm probably going to start there and get a clean slate on some amps and try to get a fresh perspective. Anyone I know has always spoken highly of RCA black plates. Even my audiophiles buddies. Might as well start with the OG. I'm a little pokey for getting around to doing things but I think that's a great way to start. Sylvania Long BP or short? Had great luck with the long. I have a pair of the short and they have killer ratings but one triode on each is noisy so no go lol. I've always wondered whether it's best to stick with one tube in the preamp or develop a cocktail of tubes. So much fun.
CDawg
Member
That's a lot of tubes! Definitely way more than me. I decided long ago to build around 12AX7 and a couple of power tubes for my guitar gear. Got a few 12AX7... Figured it would also let me get into hifi in the future and give me some cool options. I'll have to look into them tubes and the Ronin. I haven't tried any new amps like that unfortunately. Living like 2010 here.
I'm a little lacking in the Italian tubes like Ates/Fivre/GEC/Geloso/Marconi but I always hear wonderful things. I'll be looking for them more in the future. Agreed about the German tubes. I don't think they have the most character or charm but they're accurate and tight. I tried Valvo briefly but the midrange didn't sit right with me. Can't say I put in much time but just didn't work. I like the RFT EL34 too but haven't tried the others.
CDawg
Member
I haven't tried too many current production power tubes. Got 1 set of Winged C EL34 in an amp but after that I'm done too. Exact same reason as you listed. Got some other EL34s to build around but don't want to find any new NOS power tubes. Fixed bias, sextet and NOS power tubes combined is a nightmare. NOS 12AX7 forever!
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braintheory
Well-known member
The Ronin is among my favorite amps, but not cheap and only one or 2 of their models really are that high gain or suited to more aggressive music
Geloso and Ates I actually haven't heard of. GEC as far as I'm aware are UK made tubes (I've got all their tube types too except for just their 5U4's, 6SN7 and 6L6G). I actually have one GEC 12AT7 made in India (was only $20) that also sounds quite good, but the admittedly overpriced UK version sounds better to me and also just different. GEC's are cool but imho overrated (they're prices can be nuts for some of them). Their TT21 KT88's are special though and IME by far the kings of KT88's I've had
Yeah I still like German tubes a lot despite them being in some ways sounding analytical or cold. Valvo's to me don't actually sound that German despite being from there. I hear them as sort of like a brighter bugle boy or smoother, creamier, more polite Siemens. I can see why some may not like their midrange. One of my friend didn't care for it at all in the context of his mic preamp. He said it sounded cloudy to him. I don't know if they're must haves, but another flavor I sometimes like. Where I feel they really shine most are their EL84's and the EL34's are quite good too. A lot of Vox guys have Valvo's as their favorite EL84's. They're voicing I think just really aligns well with Vox's, but in some other EL84 amps I favor other brands more
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