What are your favorite 12AX7/ECC83 tubes for the phase inverter, effects loop and reverb slots? Why?

[psychodave]

That chart is not for the metal clip inside the tube. Tube markings are EM which makes it April 1973. There is also a 1973 marking. The metal plate inside has the number 84 on it. 84 on the chart is Feb 79.

 

[CDawg]

Thank you for correcting me. There's always lots for me to learn. Still dying to know what's the best testing tube for noise you seen on a Maxipreamp II. If it's a secret tube that you're stocking up on I get it

 

[psychodave]

Thank you for correcting me. There's always lots for me to learn. Still dying to know what's the best testing tube for noise you seen on a Maxipreamp II. If it's a secret tube that you're stocking up on I get it

I never write down noise readings so I have no idea.

Regarding your power tube question, it depends on the amp. I like real Mullard, Siemens and Sylvania. I love the old Winged C's as well.

 

[CDawg]

I never write down noise readings so I have no idea.

Regarding your power tube question, it depends on the amp. I like real Mullard, Siemens and Sylvania. I love the old Winged C's as well.

I write down everything with a bit of rounding on a computer. Put a number inside the box lid and store them away until needed.

I don't think I've met a person who didn't like real Mullards. Have you tried multiple versions of them? Siemens I didn't put the time into to make a good judgement. Never tried the 6CA7 but love Philips/Sylvania 7581A and 6L6GC. I put a new set of winged C into my Stiletto after buying it and after that I'm done with them. Great tube but I'm not paying the price. I picked up some Mullard XF4 and Tesla long ago but need to gather a few more... fixed bias, sextet, matching NOS tubes. lol. Bad experiences there.

 

[matttornado]

What I found is that it doesn't really matter. V1 is most important and even in that spot, the difference between tubes is usually very subtle and not that big of deal. That said, I had some old JAN12AX7s that sounded a little better in V1 compared to new stock types.

 

[CDawg]

What I found is that it doesn't really matter. V1 is most important and even in that spot, the difference between tubes is usually very subtle and not that big of deal. That said, I had some old JAN12AX7s that sounded a little better in V1 compared to new stock types.

I strongly agree with you. The only one I find that's not subtle is a Siemens E83CC. Difference is in the microphonics and noise. That's my usual V1 in all tube in amps. Not as cool as beanie babies or stamps but I like collecting 12AX7 tubes. Do you know the specific JAN? GE? RCA? Sylvania?

 

[braintheory]

I do agree that of all the gear rabbit holes to explore tubes are the most subtle IME, but it’s still fun to nerd out over and listen for the differences and for whatever reason I find the tube rabbit hole somehow to be one of the more addictive ones to go in despite it being more subtle

 

[CDawg]

I do agree that of all the gear rabbit holes to explore tubes are the most subtle IME, but it’s still fun to nerd out over and listen for the differences and for whatever reason I find the tube rabbit hole somehow to be one of the more addictive ones to go in despite it being more subtle

They're all very subtle but I'll still keep collecting. It's kind of like chasing a rainbow. Only one I'll fight on is Siemens E83CC. Low noise and low microphonics unlike any 12AX7 I've heard. My usual V1 for that reason. Sold the rackmount decimator and my hum extractor sits in a box.

 

[braintheory]

Thanks too you I ordered a Siemens E883C on eBay. Will be curious to see how it compares other tubes

 

[CDawg]

Thanks too you I ordered a Siemens E883C on eBay. Will be curious to see how it compares other tubes

Most of my Siemens E83CC came as surplus from CP Rail. The paper work showed that it was ordered directly from Siemens and it was to be used in their communications equipment. Not something you'd find at radio shack or in a kit and they were expensive even then. Seen three different kinds.... long plate triple mica (really getter shield), triple mica and a double mica. They're all incredible but prefer both the short plates version myself. Only came across one long plate and don't want to say for sure though about that.

If I bought a new average current production tube and measured it on a Maxipreamp II it'd be about 82.5 db per triode, a great tube that's most likely nos or a EH 7025 I found about 85.5, Siemens E83CC is about 87.5. and seen them up to 89.4. Tester says the theoretical limit of a 12AX7 is 92. I might be taking a simplistic view of it but if we have a difference of 5 db of noise per triode, being amplified with a gain factor of 100 for a 12AX7, over 3-6 triodes of a guitar amplifiers input/gain stages...

Little bit of context..... guitar > amp 95%. Typical EMG 81 or JB guitar to EVs or V30s. No boosts. Rarely any pedals. I think I play typical gear and settings for the most part. I have never used a noise gate with a rectifier. I can justify putting 1 or 2 Siemens in an amp like a Crate or Mark III Coli and make it work. That 5150 is a noisy amp and it's probably better to throw in the towel and choose other tubes and hook up a noise gate. up a few more options for me.

I really hope it works out for you and you enjoy it. It's my absolute favorite tube of any 12AX7 by far. I'd like to hear your experiences when you get it.

 

[braintheory]

Most of my Siemens E83CC came as surplus from CP Rail. The paper work showed that it was ordered directly from Siemens and it was to be used in their communications equipment. Not something you'd find at radio shack or in a kit and they were expensive even then. Seen three different kinds.... long plate triple mica (really getter shield), triple mica and a double mica. They're all incredible but prefer both the short plates version myself. Only came across one long plate and don't want to say for sure though about that.

If I bought a new average current production tube and measured it on a Maxipreamp II it'd be about 82.5 db per triode, a great tube that's most likely nos or a EH 7025 I found about 85.5, Siemens E83CC is about 87.5. and seen them up to 89.4. Tester says the theoretical limit of a 12AX7 is 92. I might be taking a simplistic view of it but if we have a difference of 5 db of noise per triode, being amplified with a gain factor of 100 for a 12AX7, over 3-6 triodes of a guitar amplifiers input/gain stages...

Little bit of context..... guitar > amp 95%. Typical EMG 81 or JB guitar to EVs or V30s. No boosts. Rarely any pedals. I think I play typical gear and settings for the most part. I have never used a noise gate with a rectifier. I can justify putting 1 or 2 Siemens in an amp like a Crate or Mark III Coli and make it work. That 5150 is a noisy amp and it's probably better to throw in the towel and choose other tubes and hook up a noise gate. up a few more options for me.

I really hope it works out for you and you enjoy it. It's my absolute favorite tube of any 12AX7 by far. I'd like to hear your experiences when you get it.

Yeah I’ll definitely let you know. Having low noise is a great bonus for sure, but it’s really the tone itself that I enjoy nitpicking and dissecting how it compares to other tubes I love, no matter how subtly it may differ. Will see how it is. This one I’m getting is triple mica (not sure how the mica differences affect tone). Not sure about the plate, but it doesn’t look short to me in the pics

 

[CDawg]

Yeah I’ll definitely let you know. Having low noise is a great bonus for sure, but it’s really the tone itself that I enjoy nitpicking and dissecting how it compares to other tubes I love, no matter how subtly it may differ. Will see how it is. This one I’m getting is triple mica (not sure how the mica differences affect tone). Not sure about the plate, but it doesn’t look short to me in the pics
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The tone is ultimately what it's ultimately about. I think extremely low microphonics and noise is always a great choice regardless of gear and never goes out of style. I can detect some subtle differences here and there but I wouldn't take a blind test against any 12AX7 except a Siemens E83CC. The triple mica is a getter shield IIRC and designed to protect containments to parts when the vacuum is sealing or something along them lines.

One more cool one lol. Doesn't sound all that good and I don't think it would have much value but here's one of the rarest 12AX7 I've come across. A CGE 12AX7WA. Canadian General Electric. My understanding is that these were made only for the Canadian military but primarily the Royal Canadian Air Force.

 

[braintheory]

The tone is ultimately what it's ultimately about. I think extremely low microphonics and noise is always a great choice regardless of gear and never goes out of style. I can detect some subtle differences here and there but I wouldn't take a blind test against any 12AX7 except a Siemens E83CC. The triple mica is a getter shield IIRC and designed to protect containments to parts when the vacuum is sealing or something along them lines.

One more cool one lol. Doesn't sound all that good and I don't think it would have much value but here's one of the rarest 12AX7 I've come across. A CGE 12AX7WA. Canadian General Electric. My understanding is that these were made only for the Canadian military but primarily the Royal Canadian Air Force.

Yeah it’s always nice to lower the noise floor when we can, especially since so much of my favorite vintage gear items (especially pickups) can be very very noisy haha. Can you tell from my pic if the one I’m getting is a long or short plate version?

That’s cool. I have some Canadian GE 5881’s. I slightly prefer my US GE 5881’s, but both sound really good and similar overall

 

[CDawg]

Yeah it’s always nice to lower the noise floor when we can, especially since so much of my favorite vintage gear items (especially pickups) can be very very noisy haha. Can you tell from my pic if the one I’m getting is a long or short plate version?

That’s cool. I have some Canadian GE 5881’s. I slightly prefer my US GE 5881’s, but both sound really good and similar overall

I think you got the short plate version and I prefer that one but only had one of the long plate. Of the two kinds of short plate Siemens E83CC I got I never seen a bad tube. I'd say the worst of what I owned was better than 95% of anything I came across at any price. Did you see a lot of good reviews before purchasing?

I never knew there were Canadian power tubes I could put into my amps. I'm a 7581A guy but that sounds like something I'd make an exception for to put Canadian 5881s in a recto with Canadian preamplifier tubes and rectifier tubes. That doesn't sound good for my wallet though.

 

[braintheory]

I think you got the short plate version and I prefer that one but only had one of the long plate. Of the two kinds of short plate Siemens E83CC I got I never seen a bad tube. I'd say the worst of what I owned was better than 95% of anything I came across at any price. Did you see a lot of good reviews before purchasing?

I never knew there were Canadian power tubes I could put into my amps. I'm a 7581A guy but that sounds like something I'd make an exception for to put Canadian 5881s in a recto with Canadian preamplifier tubes and rectifier tubes. That doesn't sound good for my wallet though.

Yes the seller had all good feedback. I’m always careful with that

I like my 7581A’s too, but in general I actually prefer 5881’s in most amps besides Marks (still prefer 6L6GC’s there usually). I find despite having less headroom, less crisp/glassy, less extended lows and highs, imo the tone of them tends to be richer, warmer, more woody, chewy. They can be great and the good news is most are actually cheap, especially these Canadian version GE 5881’s. Can’t go wrong with them imo, especially in Recto’s, although I generally prefer EL34’s in Recto’s

If you wanna really hurt your wallet get Fivre 6L6GC’s lol. Those are to me the best tubes I’ve tried in the 6L6 family, but really expensive and they say they can’t handle more than 500 plate voltage. I’m a huge fan also of 6L6G’s. IME even better tone than other 6L6 varieties, but can only be used in amps with very low plate voltages sadly like my Ronin

 

[CDawg]

Yes the seller had all good feedback. I’m always careful with that

I like my 7581A’s too, but in general I actually prefer 5881’s in most amps besides Marks (still prefer 6L6GC’s there usually). I find despite having less headroom, less crisp/glassy, less extended lows and highs, imo the tone of them tends to be richer, warmer, more woody, chewy. They can be great and the good news is most are actually cheap, especially these Canadian version GE 5881’s. Can’t go wrong with them imo, especially in Recto’s, although I generally prefer EL34’s in Recto’s

If you wanna really hurt your wallet get Fivre 6L6GC’s lol. Those are to me the best tubes I’ve tried in the 6L6 family, but really expensive and they say they can’t handle more than 500 plate voltage. I’m a huge fan also of 6L6G’s. IME even better tone than other 6L6 varieties, but can only be used in amps with very low plate voltages sadly like my Ronin

I can see how you'd prefer that from talking to you and there really isn't a right or wrong. Cheap, Canadian and a power tube I can put into a rectifier sounds awesome. Always thought it would be cool to fill a recto with Canadian tubes and I never knew anything existed in a EL34 or 6L6GC type. Fixed bias/sextet/nos power tubes might take a bit to get a set going but I can see getting around to it. Recto + Tung Sol 7581A = my favorite. Balanced, clear, more headroom and tighter. Love the recto low and high gain tones that way.

You're right about the Fivre's but I bet they sound amazing and worth it. I don't think my amps would take well to them like you're saying. I started seeing youtube videos for Ronin. Sounds like amazing amps and I like the layouts of what I seen because it looks unique. Can't say I've owned many amps compared to a lot of people I've come across; like ten amps in twenty years. Ever try a guitar amp with 300B or KT1XX?

 

[braintheory]

I can see how you'd prefer that from talking to you and there really isn't a right or wrong. Cheap, Canadian and a power tube I can put into a rectifier sounds awesome. Always thought it would be cool to fill a recto with Canadian tubes and I never knew anything existed in a EL34 or 6L6GC type. Fixed bias/sextet/nos power tubes might take a bit to get a set going but I can see getting around to it. Recto + Tung Sol 7581A = my favorite. Balanced, clear, more headroom and tighter. Love the recto low and high gain tones that way.

You're right about the Fivre's but I bet they sound amazing and worth it. I don't think my amps would take well to them like you're saying. I started seeing youtube videos for Ronin. Sounds like amazing amps and I like the layouts of what I seen because it looks unique. Can't say I've owned many amps compared to a lot of people I've come across; like ten amps in twenty years. Ever try a guitar amp with 300B or KT1XX?

Yeah it depends what kind sound you want. For those qualities you mentioned 7581A's would be the best in the 6L6 family, although '90's pre-Winged C Svetlana's 6L6GC's are also to me some of the better choices for that and would imagine 6550's could be even better if Recto's had the ability to use them. For me what really distinguishes Recto's from other amps is their unique throaty low mid growl like a fire breathing dragon. I like to play up that part as much as I can and feel EL34's do that best for me and within the 6L6 family would be Fivre 6L6GC for me or some of the US 5881's. Recto's are some of my all time favorites in high gain amps

Fivre's imo do sound amazing despite being so pricy. Ronin's are awesome. One of my all time favorite non-high gain amps for sure, although the P88 model can be high gain, tight and mean too. They have a lot of nuance and complexity to their tone that inspires me. I haven't tried a 300B. I've tried KT120's in a few amps and would be curious to try KT100's and others. I found KT120's sound a little bigger and more headroom/efficient than KT88's when compared, but not by a lot and the tone itself imo is more sterile/bland and distant sounding. Also, I found my old Telsa KT88S's and GEC TT21 KT88's sounded even bigger, more low end than the KT120's I had, but maybe still didn't quite have the same efficiency, but close enough imo. IME GEC TT21 KT88's are the king of KT88's, but they're also rare, expensive and need adapters in the sockets, which can also make them too tall to fit in many amps unless you take the chassis out the head shell, which I had to do when I used them in my amps

 

[psychodave]

The tone is ultimately what it's ultimately about. I think extremely low microphonics and noise is always a great choice regardless of gear and never goes out of style. I can detect some subtle differences here and there but I wouldn't take a blind test against any 12AX7 except a Siemens E83CC. The triple mica is a getter shield IIRC and designed to protect containments to parts when the vacuum is sealing or something along them lines.

One more cool one lol. Doesn't sound all that good and I don't think it would have much value but here's one of the rarest 12AX7 I've come across. A CGE 12AX7WA. Canadian General Electric. My understanding is that these were made only for the Canadian military but primarily the Royal Canadian Air Force.

That tube looks like Sylvania. Pic isn't really clear.

 

[CDawg]

That tube looks like Sylvania. Pic isn't really clear.

My photography isn't good so that's why. The ring getter is unique. Very thick for a getter and it looks like a frisbee. Hybrid of a disc and a ring. The support rods are also unique and have a t shaped attachment on the mica. All that tooling for tubes gets around the globe and I wouldn't be surprised to trace parts like plates back to another manufacturer like General Electric since it's Canadian General Electric. Etching is different than other tubes as well.

Not a great sounding tube by any means. Just really rare and hard to find information on the CGE 12AX7WA. Only information I've come across is it was made specifically for the Royal Canadian Air Force. Not sure what gear they'd be putting that into but I have an imagination.

 

[CDawg]

Yeah it depends what kind sound you want. For those qualities you mentioned 7581A's would be the best in the 6L6 family, although '90's pre-Winged C Svetlana's 6L6GC's are also to me some of the better choices for that and would imagine 6550's could be even better if Recto's had the ability to use them. For me what really distinguishes Recto's from other amps is their unique throaty low mid growl like a fire breathing dragon. I like to play up that part as much as I can and feel EL34's do that best for me and within the 6L6 family would be Fivre 6L6GC for me or some of the US 5881's. Recto's are some of my all time favorites in high gain amps

Fivre's imo do sound amazing despite being so pricy. Ronin's are awesome. One of my all time favorite non-high gain amps for sure, although the P88 model can be high gain, tight and mean too. They have a lot of nuance and complexity to their tone that inspires me. I haven't tried a 300B. I've tried KT120's in a few amps and would be curious to try KT100's and others. I found KT120's sound a little bigger and more headroom/efficient than KT88's when compared, but not by a lot and the tone itself imo is more sterile/bland and distant sounding. Also, I found my old Telsa KT88S's and GEC TT21 KT88's sounded even bigger, more low end than the KT120's I had, but maybe still didn't quite have the same efficiency, but close enough imo. IME GEC TT21 KT88's are the king of KT88's, but they're also rare, expensive and need adapters in the sockets, which can also make them too tall to fit in many amps unless you take the chassis out the head shell, which I had to do when I used them in my amps

When I've compared 7581A vs 6L6GC even similar tubes from Philips or GE I just always prefer 7581A. I like high headroom high gain and low gain and that's most of my playing so I'm not very diverse. I have a quad of Winged C and I liked them and I might find some way to use them in the future but I usually preferred Philips for a 6L6GC. Only tried the GE 6E 6550A and built around that. Rectifier is also one of my favourite amplifiers and wouldn't want to be without one. I enjoy the cleans on it too. Probably take me a year or two to get around to the 5881s but I will sooner or later.

They sound awesome but fixed bias/sextet/NOS tubes.... I'll put myself out there as an example and a good warning to other people. Got 17 GE 7581A. Ended up with three quads and five tubes at the extremes of current draw I wouldn't put in my amps. I could make them work but it was a disappointing experience. That really made me bitter about NOS power tubes and made me think a little different. I'd feel a lot differently if I were running more pairs or quads but now I have a better understanding of the situation I put myself.

Those Ronins sound great from the youtube clips I've heard. I'll definitely look into the P88. I haven't really followed a lot of the newer amp manufacturers. Other than the Mark VII I don't recall turning an amplifier on in a store for about a decade. I listen on youtube and read a lot though. What did you try the KT120s in? Never tried the KT88 or 100 myself. I've heard amazing things about the GECs and that's why they command the price they do. Would love to hear them myself. I've seen a few people run into issues because of tube spacing. Good to hear you were able to creatively overcome the issue though. I'd like to try something with a quad/sextet of KT 150/170. Something cool and unique where modern power tubes are an option.