What are your favorite 12AX7/ECC83 tubes for the phase inverter, effects loop and reverb slots? Why?

[braintheory]

When I've compared 7581A vs 6L6GC even similar tubes from Philips or GE I just always prefer 7581A. I like high headroom high gain and low gain and that's most of my playing so I'm not very diverse. I have a quad of Winged C and I liked them and I might find some way to use them in the future but I usually preferred Philips for a 6L6GC. Only tried the GE 6E 6550A and built around that. Rectifier is also one of my favourite amplifiers and wouldn't want to be without one. I enjoy the cleans on it too. Probably take me a year or two to get around to the 5881s but I will sooner or later.

They sound awesome but fixed bias/sextet/NOS tubes.... I'll put myself out there as an example and a good warning to other people. Got 17 GE 7581A. Ended up with three quads and five tubes at the extremes of current draw I wouldn't put in my amps. I could make them work but it was a disappointing experience. That really made me bitter about NOS power tubes and made me think a little different. I'd feel a lot differently if I were running more pairs or quads but now I have a better understanding of the situation I put myself.

Those Ronins sound great from the youtube clips I've heard. I'll definitely look into the P88. I haven't really followed a lot of the newer amp manufacturers. Other than the Mark VII I don't recall turning an amplifier on in a store for about a decade. I listen on youtube and read a lot though. What did you try the KT120s in? Never tried the KT88 or 100 myself. I've heard amazing things about the GECs and that's why they command the price they do. Would love to hear them myself. I've seen a few people run into issues because of tube spacing. Good to hear you were able to creatively overcome the issue though. I'd like to try something with a quad/sextet of KT 150/170. Something cool and unique where modern power tubes are an option.

I agree on 7581A vs 6L6GC’s, it’s just that some of the brands I like never made 7581A’s as far as I’m aware, so I have their 6L6GC’s. Winged C 6L6GC’s imo are just ok for high gain, great cleans though, but the ‘90’s pre-Winged C Svetlana versions sound awesome and so much better imo than the Winged C ones

I mostly use these vintage powertubes as pairs or quads. I know not to bother getting a matched sextet lol. Too hard to do

Ronin’s are amazing and unique for sure. I tried KT120’s in a Schroeder Dozer and Alessandro Redbone. Imho GEC’s are really good, but overrated and overpriced, but the TT21’s are to me worth it. I’d love to try KT150 and 170’s too. I’m just not sure what amp can actually take them lol. The guy at Schroeder said he didn’t like the sound of KT150’s in his amps fwiw

 

[CDawg]

I agree on 7581A vs 6L6GC’s, it’s just that some of the brands I like never made 7581A’s as far as I’m aware, so I have their 6L6GC’s. Winged C 6L6GC’s imo are just ok for high gain, great cleans though, but the ‘90’s pre-Winged C Svetlana versions sound awesome and so much better imo than the Winged C ones

I mostly use these vintage powertubes as pairs or quads. I know not to bother getting a matched sextet lol. Too hard to do

Ronin’s are amazing and unique for sure. I tried KT120’s in a Schroeder Dozer and Alessandro Redbone. Imho GEC’s are really good, but overrated and overpriced, but the TT21’s are to me worth it. I’d love to try KT150 and 170’s too. I’m just not sure what amp can actually take them lol. The guy at Schroeder said he didn’t like the sound of KT150’s in his amps fwiw

Outside of GE, Philips and Tung Sol I've never seen anyone else make a 7581A. Heard the older ones were better and have a quad from early 00s with about 5 hours on them.

I looked up Schroeder and that looks awesome. The components sound really nice from what I've read. I didn't see any pics inside to see wiring but I imagine it looks nice. I like when gear looks like a Hiwatt inside. Looked around on the website and the schroederverb reverb looks so good. What did you like/not like about that Schroeder Dozer? Alessandro Redbone looks good but I don't think that's an amp for me. Love everything that's big and heavy with a lot of tubes I like the idea of the KT150-170 because it'll be a fresh palette for someone to work with with tubes that are readily available. I think if someone tinkered away they'd make something cool.

 

[braintheory]

Outside of GE, Philips and Tung Sol I've never seen anyone else make a 7581A. Heard the older ones were better and have a quad from early 00s with about 5 hours on them.

I looked up Schroeder and that looks awesome. The components sound really nice from what I've read. I didn't see any pics inside to see wiring but I imagine it looks nice. I like when gear looks like a Hiwatt inside. Looked around on the website and the schroederverb reverb looks so good. What did you like/not like about that Schroeder Dozer? Alessandro Redbone looks good but I don't think that's an amp for me. Love everything that's big and heavy with a lot of tubes I like the idea of the KT150-170 because it'll be a fresh palette for someone to work with with tubes that are readily available. I think if someone tinkered away they'd make something cool.

I actually sold the vintage Hiwatt DR103 I had partly from the Schroeder’s I had. I liked its power and openness. In a way it sounded sort of like a very high wattage fender tweed and liked that voicing too. It was a loose amp though (not tight), quite dark, imo still not as organic sounding as some of my others and didn’t feel as fun to play. I liked other amps even more for where I felt it excelled, so I sold it, but it was a cool amp. For big, powerful amps my favorites have been my Wizard Hell Razor KT150, MI Audio Megalith Beta, 1997 Diezel VH4 Blueface, 1st version Uberschall, Mako Dorado, Ronin P88 and Alessandro DAZZ. I just got the other day a 1981 Marshall Model 2000 that is 250w via 6x6550’s. It look twice as thick from the sides as a normal jcm800 lol

 

[CDawg]

I actually sold the vintage Hiwatt DR103 I had partly from the Schroeder’s I had. I liked its power and openness. In a way it sounded sort of like a very high wattage fender tweed and liked that voicing too. It was a loose amp though (not tight), quite dark, imo still not as organic sounding as some of my others and didn’t feel as fun to play. I liked other amps even more for where I felt it excelled, so I sold it, but it was a cool amp. For big, powerful amps my favorites have been my Wizard Hell Razor KT150, MI Audio Megalith Beta, 1997 Diezel VH4 Blueface, 1st version Uberschall, Mako Dorado, Ronin P88 and Alessandro DAZZ. I just got the other day a 1981 Marshall Model 2000 that is 250w via 6x6550’s. It look twice as thick from the sides as a normal jcm800 lol

You've had a lot of wonderful gear. I might have tried things here or there for 20-30 minutes but it's not the same as owning it and playing it in a familiar environment and I really haven't kept up with anything put out in the last decade or so. Those Wizards have really caught my eye lately and that's a brand I'd love to try. I like looking at the interior because it looks so nicely assembled with quality parts. Wasn't familiar with the Ronin or Alessandro until recently but knew about and looked at a lot of clips for the other amps and I probably have tried the Diezel VH4 and Uberschall a long time ago but couldn't specifically tell you.

Now that Marshall Model 2000.... that's been a bucket list amp of mine for a long time. I have never seen one for sale locally in my entire life and I live near the GTA which is pretty populated for Canada and I look for gear regularly. I look at ebay/reverb more than I should. I don't follow too many forums but I rarely ever hear anyone putting that one up for sale. Seen a few old ads here or there on the internet but that's it. I would love to hear anything about that amplifier you can tell me. Anything.

 

[psychodave]

My photography isn't good so that's why. The ring getter is unique. Very thick for a getter and it looks like a frisbee. Hybrid of a disc and a ring. The support rods are also unique and have a t shaped attachment on the mica. All that tooling for tubes gets around the globe and I wouldn't be surprised to trace parts like plates back to another manufacturer like General Electric since it's Canadian General Electric. Etching is different than other tubes as well.

Not a great sounding tube by any means. Just really rare and hard to find information on the CGE 12AX7WA. Only information I've come across is it was made specifically for the Royal Canadian Air Force. Not sure what gear they'd be putting that into but I have an imagination.

I went through a bunch of GE / Phillips 12 volt tubes and didn’t find any with that solid disk getter. It certainly is interesting. I’ve only seen that getter on the 6L6GC.

For fun here are a few tubes I looked at in GE boxes.

JAN Joint Army, Navy

6072 black plate

5751

GE with a realistic logo and gold pins

Long plate GE, has a Hammond label getter is bent lower to compensate for the lack of room.

 

[braintheory]

You've had a lot of wonderful gear. I might have tried things here or there for 20-30 minutes but it's not the same as owning it and playing it in a familiar environment and I really haven't kept up with anything put out in the last decade or so. Those Wizards have really caught my eye lately and that's a brand I'd love to try. I like looking at the interior because it looks so nicely assembled with quality parts. Wasn't familiar with the Ronin or Alessandro until recently but knew about and looked at a lot of clips for the other amps and I probably have tried the Diezel VH4 and Uberschall a long time ago but couldn't specifically tell you.

Now that Marshall Model 2000.... that's been a bucket list amp of mine for a long time. I have never seen one for sale locally in my entire life and I live near the GTA which is pretty populated for Canada and I look for gear regularly. I look at ebay/reverb more than I should. I don't follow too many forums but I rarely ever hear anyone putting that one up for sale. Seen a few old ads here or there on the internet but that's it. I would love to hear anything about that amplifier you can tell me. Anything.

Yeah I’m very obsessive with gear and like exploring it all. I like many lower powered amps too or anything good. In general I find most recent made amps the past 20 year or so a bit sterile and not as interesting, but some exceptions for me have been Wizard, Alessandro, Ronin, Gjika and Lenz and the few amps Jamison used to make (like a better Matchless in a way)

I just got the Model 2000 and need to explore it more. It also took me a while to find one. It’s rated at 250w powered by 6 6550’s. The first ch sounds to me sort of like a not as good 800, but the other ch that is NMV is a lot louder and sounds to me like something that would fall right in between the sound of my 1972 SuperLead 100 straight in and an ‘80’s JCM800 with the sound of 6550’s it has. The 2nd channel is pretty cool, but I still wanna I think get it modded later on and think I’ll like it more like that

 

[CDawg]

I went through a bunch of GE / Phillips 12 volt tubes and didn’t find any with that solid disk getter. It certainly is interesting. I’ve only seen that getter on the 6L6GC.

For fun here are a few tubes I looked at in GE boxes.

JAN Joint Army, Navy

View attachment 356249

6072 black plate
View attachment 356252
5751
View attachment 356255

GE with a realistic logo and gold pins
View attachment 356258
Long plate GE, has a Hammond label getter is bent lower to compensate for the lack of room.
View attachment 356261

Best information I got is it's a genuine Canadian General Electric. Not a relabel like most CGE stuff. Made for the RCAF and not for the public until released as military surplus. Doesn't sound that good, just a rare 12AX7 most people don't come across. I imagine there's other tubes out there with similar stories.

Great pics and variety. I really like military tubes and have had great success with them. Almost all my favorite power tubes have military connections. What did you think of the GE long plate?

 

[CDawg]

Yeah I’m very obsessive with gear and like exploring it all. I like many lower powered amps too or anything good. In general I find most recent

Yeah I’m very obsessive with gear and like exploring it all. I like many lower powered amps too or anything good. In general I find most recent made amps the past 20 year or so a bit sterile and not as interesting, but some exceptions for me have been Wizard, Alessandro, Ronin, Gjika and Lenz and the few amps Jamison used to make (like a better Matchless in a way)

I just got the Model 2000 and need to explore it more. It also took me a while to find one. It’s rated at 250w powered by 6 6550’s. The first ch sounds to me sort of like a not as good 800, but the other ch that is NMV is a lot louder and sounds to me like something that would fall right in between the sound of my 1972 SuperLead 100 straight in and an ‘80’s JCM800 with the sound of 6550’s it has. The 2nd channel is pretty cool, but I still wanna I think get it modded later on and think I’ll like it more like that

made amps the past 20 year or so a bit sterile and not as interesting, but some exceptions for me have been Wizard, Alessandro, Ronin, Gjika and Lenz and the few amps Jamison used to make (like a better Matchless in a way)

I just got the Model 2000 and need to explore it more. It also took me a while to find one. It’s rated at 250w powered by 6 6550’s. The first ch sounds to me sort of like a not as good 800, but the other ch that is NMV is a lot louder and sounds to me like something that would fall right in between the sound of my 1972 SuperLead 100 straight in and an ‘80’s JCM800 with the sound of 6550’s it has. The 2nd channel is pretty cool, but I still wanna I think get it modded later on and think I’ll like it more like that

Have you ever tried making a rig like Gordie Johnson? Known for running an amp into an amp instead of pedal into an amp. Most known rig was Garnet Herzog into Ampeg SVT. I've had some ridiculous thoughts come into my head. I just haven't kept up with the times with gear because you just mentioned three more I don't know. Mostly a metal player lol.

You have to follow up or do a thread somewhere about that Model 2000 after you've had it more time. I'd really like to know more because there's not much information about them. I heard the guy from Meshuggah is playing one now that is modified. Super rare amp. Like 200 made? 10A fuse and it weighs about 80lbs? So cool!

 

[braintheory]

Have you ever tried making a rig like Gordie Johnson? Known for running an amp into an amp instead of pedal into an amp. Most known rig was Garnet Herzog into Ampeg SVT. I've had some ridiculous thoughts come into my head. I just haven't kept up with the times with gear because you just mentioned three more I don't know. Mostly a metal player lol.

You have to follow up or do a thread somewhere about that Model 2000 after you've had it more time. I'd really like to know more because there's not much information about them. I heard the guy from Meshuggah is playing one now that is modified. Super rare amp. Like 200 made? 10A fuse and it weighs about 80lbs? So cool!

I haven’t done that. I’m not sure how exactly I would connect an amp to another amp like that. I have slaved though some of my amps into other amp’s poweramps via their fx loop. Ampeg SVT’s can be cool. For recent made metal amps the only noteworthy ones for me have been Wizard, Lenz, MI Audio Megalith Beta, Hermansson mods and possibly the new upcoming Bogner Snorkler. My other favorites came out over 20 years ago now (Mark IIC+, Rev C Recto, Blueface VH4, Rev 1 Uberschall, some modded Marshall’s)

I think I tried most of what I can with it now stock besides boosting it. I’ll probably soon just look into getting it modded. Meshuggah’s is modded by Hermansson. He has a clip of it on his YouTube channel. It’s killer imo. I think it has actually a 3A and 6A fuse. It probably does weigh about 80 lbs. Pretty heavy, but I’ve had a few other heads that were even heavier. Those old Ampeg SVT’s are probably heavier and also run on 6 6550’s and rated at 300w. I may want to revisit them later

 

[CDawg]

I haven’t done that. I’m not sure how exactly I would connect an amp to another amp like that. I have slaved though some of my amps into other amp’s poweramps via their fx loop. Ampeg SVT’s can be cool. For recent made metal amps the only noteworthy ones for me have been Wizard, Lenz, MI Audio Megalith Beta, Hermansson mods and possibly the new upcoming Bogner Snorkler. My other favorites came out over 20 years ago now (Mark IIC+, Rev C Recto, Blueface VH4, Rev 1 Uberschall, some modded Marshall’s)

I think I tried most of what I can with it now stock besides boosting it. I’ll probably soon just look into getting it modded. Meshuggah’s is modded by Hermansson. He has a clip of it on his YouTube channel. It’s killer imo. I think it has actually a 3A and 6A fuse. It probably does weigh about 80 lbs. orettt heavy, but I’ve had a few other heads that were even heavier. Those old Ampeg SVT’s are probably heavier and also run on 6 6550’s and rated at 300w. I may want to revisit them later

I don't know how it's done but I think it's just plugging it into the input. He played for decades Garnet Herzog to Ampeg SVT and now it's Garnet Herzog to Roland JCs. Awesome tone that takes a unique approach. I don't see many guys running amp to amp like that. I really want to try a Wizard and I've seen the MI Audio mentioned a bit too. Why'd you get rid of the IIC+? Have you ever tried a Diezel Herbert? Fender 400 PS?

That's a bit disappointing to hear. I remember that amp sounding really good from the clips. Some of the stuff like that you have to take a chance on because there really isn't anywhere to try it ahead of time or there's very little information on the internet. Any of the amps I've seen that are actually designed around a sextet of 6550A were all about 80lbs IIRC. Ampeg SVT, Crate BV 300, Fender 400 PS and Marshall Model 2000 are what I remember. What did the Schroeder Dozer weigh?

 

[braintheory]

I don't know how it's done but I think it's just plugging it into the input. He played for decades Garnet Herzog to Ampeg SVT and now it's Garnet Herzog to Roland JCs. Awesome tone that takes a unique approach. I don't see many guys running amp to amp like that. I really want to try a Wizard and I've seen the MI Audio mentioned a bit too. Why'd you get rid of the IIC+? Have you ever tried a Diezel Herbert? Fender 400 PS?

That's a bit disappointing to hear. I remember that amp sounding really good from the clips. Some of the stuff like that you have to take a chance on because there really isn't anywhere to try it ahead of time or there's very little information on the internet. Any of the amps I've seen that are actually designed around a sextet of 6550A were all about 80lbs IIRC. Ampeg SVT, Crate BV 300, Fender 400 PS and Marshall Model 2000 are what I remember. What did the Schroeder Dozer weigh?

I'll check out that video later. I never got rid of it or any of those amps mentioned. I've had my iic+ for almost 11 years now. It's one of my favorite amps. I haven't tried a 400 PS. I have tried all 3 version Herbert's. I liked some things about them, but when AB'ed preferred some of my other amps and found it sometimes a little smooth, almost processed sounding for my taste. In some ways the MI Audio Megalith Beta is sort of like a better version of a Herbert to me, but not exactly the same sound

It's a cool amp. Even if I didn't get it modded I might keep it still, but it is a bit different than some might expect. I had to take chances on so many gear items over the years since I like trying everything haha. I think I remember the SVT being even heavier, but it's been too long now to remember for sure. I haven't tried a BV300. The Schroeder Dozer was actually only 53 lbs. It used 4 powertubes. It sounded very big, but I have other amps that sound even bigger: the Megalith Beta, Blueface VH4, Rev 1 Uberschall, the iic+ coliseum I used to have (started out as a iib coliseum) ands some other amps that are similar (at least close) in bigness

 

[CDawg]

I'll check out that video later. I never got rid of it or any of those amps mentioned. I've had my iic+ for almost 11 years now. It's one of my favorite amps. I haven't tried a 400 PS. I have tried all 3 version Herbert's. I liked some things about them, but when AB'ed preferred some of my other amps and found it sometimes a little smooth, almost processed sounding for my taste. In some ways the MI Audio Megalith Beta is sort of like a better version of a Herbert to me, but not exactly the same sound

It's a cool amp. Even if I didn't get it modded I might keep it still, but it is a bit different than some might expect. I had to take chances on so many gear items over the years since I like trying everything haha. I think I remember the SVT being even heavier, but it's been too long now to remember for sure. I haven't tried a BV300. The Schroeder Dozer was actually only 53 lbs. It used 4 powertubes. It sounded very big, but I have other amps that sound even bigger: the Megalith Beta, Blueface VH4, Rev 1 Uberschall, the iic+ coliseum I used to have (started out as a iib coliseum) ands some other amps that are similar (at least close) in bigness

Good to hear you still have that because I was wondering why anyone would get rid of it except some sort of tragedy. Which version of the Herbert did you like the best? Fender 400 PS is suppose to be a bassman channel 1 and twin reverb channel 2. Takes GE 6550A well and that's your power tube option. Three 4 ohm outlets to run it at full power. Only big downside to that amp. I'll have to look into that MI Audio more.

Maybe it'll grow on you or you'll figure out the combination of gear that works. I definitely prefer to try before I buy but that isn't always an option so I like to rely on reviews from other people a lot. Crate BV 300 = Ampeg SVT tweaked for guitar plus two more channels. Channel 1 = Ampeg SVT. Channel 2 = JCM 800 ish. Channel 3 = Sounds kind of like a Rectifier but feels like a tighter 5150. Most low end and high end of any amplifier I've tried. 10 kHz knob on channel 3 is just wild. Watched for years now and about 4 a year get sold; 3 for about $600 USD and one for thousands. Half of them that I know about were purchased for $200-$750. Rare amp... only about 70 made and half of them owned by about 15 people. I laugh about it now but I drove 7 hours across two countries for a Crate. I didn't want to pay $300 USD shipping so I asked about local pickup ahead of bidding. How do you feel about going from a IIB to a IIC+?

 

[psychodave]

Here is a preamp tube most may not know about. Svetlana (Winged C) 12AX7. This tube sounds glorious. Tone, gain… but 99% are noisy. Too noisy to use. I bought a bunch 20+ years ago and found 2-3 that were good.

 

[braintheory]

Here is a preamp tube most may not know about. Svetlana (Winged C) 12AX7. This tube sounds glorious. Tone, gain… but 99% are noisy. Too noisy to use. I bought a bunch 20+ years ago and found 2-3 that were good.

View attachment 356378

View attachment 356381

I have lots of Winged C 12AX7’s, but never saw pre-Winged C Svetlana versions. I have to try some

 

[braintheory]

Good to hear you still have that because I was wondering why anyone would get rid of it except some sort of tragedy. Which version of the Herbert did you like the best? Fender 400 PS is suppose to be a bassman channel 1 and twin reverb channel 2. Takes GE 6550A well and that's your power tube option. Three 4 ohm outlets to run it at full power. Only big downside to that amp. I'll have to look into that MI Audio more.

Maybe it'll grow on you or you'll figure out the combination of gear that works. I definitely prefer to try before I buy but that isn't always an option so I like to rely on reviews from other people a lot. Crate BV 300 = Ampeg SVT tweaked for guitar plus two more channels. Channel 1 = Ampeg SVT. Channel 2 = JCM 800 ish. Channel 3 = Sounds kind of like a Rectifier but feels like a tighter 5150. Most low end and high end of any amplifier I've tried. 10 kHz knob on channel 3 is just wild. Watched for years now and about 4 a year get sold; 3 for about $600 USD and one for thousands. Half of them that I know about were purchased for $200-$750. Rare amp... only about 70 made and half of them owned by about 15 people. I laugh about it now but I drove 7 hours across two countries for a Crate. I didn't want to pay $300 USD shipping so I asked about local pickup ahead of bidding. How do you feel about going from a IIB to a IIC+?

I remember liking the MK1 Herbert most

For most of this rare stuff there’s no choice but to just buy and if you get it for a good enough price break even or make a small profit later if you sell it. There are also often to no reviews to go off of with some of the really rare items. I just get intrigued and give it a shot lol. That’s cool to have a 10kHz knob. It was already a iic+ when I had it. I only tried a iib once briefly at a guitar center, so I can’t say too much. I remember it being a lot looser and darker than a iic+. More rock than metal in voicing, but a cool amp in some ways. I’d need to play it again now ideally vs my other amps to really know

 

[CDawg]

I remember liking the MK1 Herbert most

For most of this rare stuff there’s no choice but to just buy and if you get it for a good enough price break even or make a small profit later if you sell it. There are also often to no reviews to go off of with some of the really rare items. I just get intrigued and give it a shot lol. That’s cool to have a 10kHz knob. It was already a iic+ when I had it. I only tried a iib once briefly at a guitar center, so I can’t say too much. I remember it being a lot looser and darker than a iic+. More rock than metal in voicing, but a cool amp in some ways. I’d need to play it again now ideally vs my other amps to really know

I've wanted to try a Herbert for over a decade and never got around to trying one. Sooner or later.

I'm very conservative with gear and I don't buy/sell too much. Find stuff I like and try to keep it for life. I'd be willing to gamble on some things but I don't think I'd be the first person to try new things. I get intrigued by clips or specs and I would take chances with that. I see an 55 or 85 lb amp and I know it'll be good lol. It's controllable with a rotary knob to change the voicings but if speakers were made for it I'd be afraid. Backed by a lot of low end but the potential for ridiculous high end. Just different to see 10 kHz in a guitar amp but not necessarily a great idea. I think I'd have fun with any Mark II Coli but would definitely love to own a C+ to know how good it really is.

 

[CDawg]

Here is a preamp tube most may not know about. Svetlana (Winged C) 12AX7. This tube sounds glorious. Tone, gain… but 99% are noisy. Too noisy to use. I bought a bunch 20+ years ago and found 2-3 that were good.

View attachment 356378

View attachment 356381

Here is a preamp tube most may not know about. Svetlana (Winged C) 12AX7. This tube sounds glorious. Tone, gain… but 99% are noisy. Too noisy to use. I bought a bunch 20+ years ago and found 2-3 that were good.

View attachment 356378

View attachment 356381

That's definitely a rare tube you don't see often. I also heard that if they didn't come noisy they quickly became it.

 

[CDawg]

One of the coolest looking 12AX7 I've come across. TJ Fullmusic mesh box plate. That one was good unlike most the regular TJ box plates with silver pins I came across.