20thA XTC Review - about 20 hours in...

[RedB4Black]

Here's mine. It was supposed to have a solid tolex face, but I guess since it has the class A option, it would get to hot without the front vents. so the did it with the black mesh. I still love the way it looks though.

 

[Ventura]

Here's mine....

OMG!!!!!!!!!! That's just HOT!!!!!!! Both you cats got the black, and I GOTSTA say, it's pretty damn SEXY!!!! I like it - A LOT - in black... No worries, I'm digging mine - regardless of the white versus black tolex. I love my 20thA and I really REALLY hope you two cats end up loving it as much as I do.

It's the bees knees...the cats pajamas....MY Swiss Army Knife of amps, period.

V.

PS - mhenson, ya gotsta give us an update what you think when you clock some time with it... I know Tim is waiting well into the honeymoon phase before writing any updates... But I'm super curious. Peace.

 

[se7en]

Here's mine. It was supposed to have a solid tolex face, but I guess since it has the class A option, it would get to hot without the front vents. so the did it with the black mesh. I still love the way it looks though.

Killer, that's exactly how I got mine. The amp is a real shapeshifter...try class A with the plexi engaged for the blue channel...you can also boost it now if you want...such a great sound! I'm still finding new sounds on this thing over a year later...

 

[Ventura]

Gentlemen - the black tolex looks sooooooooooooooooooooo classy...

So last night I jammed - been a while. Nevertheless, one of my buddies who's adept at all instruments (don't ya just hate them kind?!?!?! ) asked to try out my '57GTDB with my 20thA. He couldn't stop. He just kept laughing and said "My gawd man, to not have to struggle with the guitar, the action, the neck, the feel, and most of all...the tone of the amp!!". He then went on to ask me "does this amp ALWAYS sound like this??". To which I responded there's a reason I don't like putting anything in front of the amp FX wise. He was blown away with the Blue and the Red - bar none - just amazed that even with his fiddlin', it sounded brilliant.

Just an FYI to Se7en and ttosh, I think I figured out the PM issue I was concerned about - no problem - just a complete oversight on my part... Duh It's fine - 100% fine...

Peace,
V.

 

[Nico]

Gentlemen - the black tolex looks sooooooooooooooooooooo classy...

So last night I jammed - been a while. Nevertheless, one of my buddies who's adept at all instruments (don't ya just hate them kind?!?!?! ) asked to try out my '57GTDB with my 20thA. He couldn't stop. He just kept laughing and said "My gawd man, to not have to struggle with the guitar, the action, the neck, the feel, and most of all...the tone of the amp!!". He then went on to ask me "does this amp ALWAYS sound like this??". To which I responded there's a reason I don't like putting anything in front of the amp FX wise. He was blown away with the Blue and the Red - bar none - just amazed that even with his fiddlin', it sounded brilliant.

Just an FYI to Se7en and ttosh, I think I figured out the PM issue I was concerned about - no problem - just a complete oversight on my part... Duh It's fine - 100% fine...

Peace,
V.

V. Im gassing for the 20th each time I read your posts, you should be a Bogner salesman, dude you know how to convience people.

So I was hoping you could do a full audio/video review of the amp. for us, because there are hardly any videos (plus Ive seen em all) of this amp and what it can do.

I am especially interested in the blue and red channels, and how they can cope with say a Marsha or a PT-100 since those are the amps I am contemplating on buying.

Anyway congrats, enjoy the amp,
Regards,

Nico.

 

[ttosh]

Gentlemen - the black tolex looks sooooooooooooooooooooo classy...

So last night I jammed - been a while. Nevertheless, one of my buddies who's adept at all instruments (don't ya just hate them kind?!?!?! ) asked to try out my '57GTDB with my 20thA. He couldn't stop. He just kept laughing and said "My gawd man, to not have to struggle with the guitar, the action, the neck, the feel, and most of all...the tone of the amp!!". He then went on to ask me "does this amp ALWAYS sound like this??". To which I responded there's a reason I don't like putting anything in front of the amp FX wise. He was blown away with the Blue and the Red - bar none - just amazed that even with his fiddlin', it sounded brilliant.

Just an FYI to Se7en and ttosh, I think I figured out the PM issue I was concerned about - no problem - just a complete oversight on my part... Duh It's fine - 100% fine...

Peace,
V.

V. Im gassing for the 20th each time I read your posts, you should be a Bogner salesman, dude you know how to convience people.

So I was hoping you could do a full audio/video review of the amp. for us, because there are hardly any videos (plus Ive seen em all) of this amp and what it can do.

I am especially interested in the blue and red channels, and how they can cope with say a Marsha or a PT-100 since those are the amps I am contemplating on buying.

Anyway congrats, enjoy the amp,
Regards,

Nico.

I cannot comment on the Marsha but the PT100 and the 20th XTC are both great amps. The PT100 kills on the clean channel pretty much any channel switcher I have heard. If you get the full options on both they can both cover a great deal of territory. I found the PT100 to be a bit dry overall compared to the 20th based on the gain channels. The PT100 will definitely get you into a more modern territory while the 20th gets close, just does not have the low end of the PT100, I would not be able to say either is better than the other, one would have to play both and decide what fit their style and needs best.

The Marsha seems to be a bit more limited than either of these amps, not to say it is not a great amp, with great tone and options. I just do not see a direct comparison of it as I do the PT100 and 20th XTC.

 

[Ventura]

Gentlemen - the black tolex looks sooooooooooooooooooooo classy...

So last night I jammed - been a while. Nevertheless, one of my buddies who's adept at all instruments (don't ya just hate them kind?!?!?! ) asked to try out my '57GTDB with my 20thA. He couldn't stop. He just kept laughing and said "My gawd man, to not have to struggle with the guitar, the action, the neck, the feel, and most of all...the tone of the amp!!". He then went on to ask me "does this amp ALWAYS sound like this??". To which I responded there's a reason I don't like putting anything in front of the amp FX wise. He was blown away with the Blue and the Red - bar none - just amazed that even with his fiddlin', it sounded brilliant.

Just an FYI to Se7en and ttosh, I think I figured out the PM issue I was concerned about - no problem - just a complete oversight on my part... Duh It's fine - 100% fine...

Peace,
V.

V. Im gassing for the 20th each time I read your posts, you should be a Bogner salesman, dude you know how to convience people.

So I was hoping you could do a full audio/video review of the amp. for us, because there are hardly any videos (plus Ive seen em all) of this amp and what it can do.

I am especially interested in the blue and red channels, and how they can cope with say a Marsha or a PT-100 since those are the amps I am contemplating on buying.

Anyway congrats, enjoy the amp,
Regards,

Nico.

Hey Nico,

What can I say?? I love this amp... It's just the tone I wanna have, in my head, coming out of an amp. And some words about the cab too - loaded with V30's, who woulda thunk it? They did it right because the grainy grit really makes it cut through the mix. Had my buddy over for a jam again today, and with a sax - the blue channel and brass were just outrageous. He then picked up the bass, and went into more aggressive territory. I love it.

Now, as for videos - and samples - I promise one day I will get to this... But for now, please check out Tone Merchants vids on YT for the 20thA for some excellent examples of what it can do. For me, I'm a perfectionist, and to do this right would take me a weekend...I don't like sub-par video clips and sound samples. So for now, just check the TM vids out and I think you'll get a real handle on what this 20thA can do. It's wicked - period. And with the EL34 bite to it, can't go wrong.

Peace,
V.

PS - Tim, thanks for the PM, we got it sorted...wasn't a volume problem at all, even though yes, it's a tad bit quieter than the blue and the red, but not as much as it was in the midst of my oversight/perceived problem.

 

[Ventura]

Updates Tim?

Just FYI to anyone who gives a shit, I'll be hammering the snot outta my 20thA today - straight up, nothing else 'cept the Mk.4:23 in front, and a little DD in the back. I wanna see what she's made of today - house is empty and no biz in the studio, so today's my day to ride her REAL hard and put 'er away wet

Earplugs recommended.

V.

 

[ttosh]

Updates Tim?

Well here is a mini review with a couple of weeks in. I am going to keep this short as this amp has a lot going and I want to spend some more time before posting clips and giving a review. I hate posting clips anyway as I have always felt they are such a waste of time as more than just an amps tone goes into them, as one can see by picking any amp and listening to the various clips of it on the forums or YouTube.

Green Channel: Better than the XTC101b and Classic I owned in the past, closer to the clean channel on the Fish IMHO, but a bit more adjustable with the option to assign the presence A to this channel. A very usable clean channel, not the most pristine of the amps available but not bad overall.

Blue Channel: Where all XTC's shine and this one has not disappointed at all. The blue channel on the 20th is a bit more Marshally, a little more grind to it than the 101b or Classic and has a little more gain. Very nice channel, with the Mesa Standard cabinets it can get pretty tight for thrash type metal, and can go all the way back to some of the best classic rock. I feel this channel can do all 60s through 80s with no problem.

Red Channel: I have never liked the red channel on the other two Bogners but this one is very nice, it has more usable gain the other other XTC's I owned. It has a really nice modern tone to it. I like it for a really nice thick lead tone as well so far.

To end the mini review I feel the 20th is worth the money and far exceeds any Bogner I have owned, that includes a Classic that was modified by Mark Cameron when he worked for Bogner, a 101b and a Fish. To each his own, but this amp so far is providing very well for me and I have been trying to get out of the amp swapping game for a while now. The Herbert still is in my top 3, right with the XTC 20th and PT100.

Will post more as I get more time with the amp, and play more with the band.

 

[stephen sawall]

Thanks ttosh ....

 

[Ventura]

Thanks Tim! Great, concise, solid review.

Peace,
V.

 

[FastRedPonyCar]

I've been tossing around what might be my next amp purchase. It's 1 of these 3:

20thA XTC
Cameron CCV
Diezel Herbert

I'm actually in the same boat... Our old rhythm player has a 101b w/el34's (actually offering to sell it to me) and I really liked it. Now that the Camerons are back in full swing and actually being built, the CCV is a serious contender now.

I never could warm up to any of the diezels as I prefer a more classic voiced amp (I even hated the Schmidt) so I'm trying to decide if it's really worth the extra $$ for the 20th xtc vs the 101b or if the CCV would be a better choice.

My main deal with the CCV is that I'm wondering if there would be too much overlap with my splawn nitro. From the videos Iv'e seen of the CCV, they're sort of similar in their overall demeanor and I don't want to end up with an amp that makes it hard to decide which one to plug into.


And the thing with teh 101b vs 20th is that everything I'm reading about the 20th is saying that everything is a little better and if I got the 101, yeah I know I'd save quite a few bucks getting it used from a friend but I don't want to be put in the position knowing that there is a bigger, badder, better sounding version of the amp that I don't have.

This thread pretty much explains my dilemma with the two xtc's.

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=74054

Another question though I'd like to pose is whether or not for under $1800 a 101b could be sent to bogner to be brought up to 20th specs? like have caps/etc swapped out, boost function added to the plexi channel, etc... It sounds like it would be a lot of trouble but after reading that Rob at tone merchants had them build a 101b w/20th power section, it makes me think that it may not be as crazy an idea as it initially sounds.

The thing with the boosting the plexi isn't that big a deal though. I've got a klon hopefully rolling in today so I'd like to think that the boost function on the 20th isn't all THAT in comparsion to the klon.

Either way, I'd have to dump at least 1 or 2 of my amps to offset the cost of the 101b and probably 3 amps if I buy the 20th. I know that it does enough to make a lot of amps obsolete and I try to justify it by telling myself that I really only plug into 1 or 2 amps these days anyways...

Decisions like this suck when these kinda price tags are on the line .. even more so when you're also trying to save up for a new car

 

[ttosh]

The 20th would be better based on your below statements IMHO. It is a great amp and if you have a Nitro there is not much territory you could not cover and I bet they would sound great together as well. The lead tone on the 20th with a nice delay is about as good as a lead tone as I have ever heard. The Bogner mids are so juicy and chewy, I would say you would be very very happy!!

I've been tossing around what might be my next amp purchase. It's 1 of these 3:

20thA XTC
Cameron CCV
Diezel Herbert

I'm actually in the same boat... Our old rhythm player has a 101b w/el34's (actually offering to sell it to me) and I really liked it. Now that the Camerons are back in full swing and actually being built, the CCV is a serious contender now.

I never could warm up to any of the diezels as I prefer a more classic voiced amp (I even hated the Schmidt) so I'm trying to decide if it's really worth the extra $$ for the 20th xtc vs the 101b or if the CCV would be a better choice.

My main deal with the CCV is that I'm wondering if there would be too much overlap with my splawn nitro. From the videos Iv'e seen of the CCV, they're sort of similar in their overall demeanor and I don't want to end up with an amp that makes it hard to decide which one to plug into.


And the thing with teh 101b vs 20th is that everything I'm reading about the 20th is saying that everything is a little better and if I got the 101, yeah I know I'd save quite a few bucks getting it used from a friend but I don't want to be put in the position knowing that there is a bigger, badder, better sounding version of the amp that I don't have.

This thread pretty much explains my dilemma with the two xtc's.

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=74054

Another question though I'd like to pose is whether or not for under $1800 a 101b could be sent to bogner to be brought up to 20th specs? like have caps/etc swapped out, boost function added to the plexi channel, etc... It sounds like it would be a lot of trouble but after reading that Rob at tone merchants had them build a 101b w/20th power section, it makes me think that it may not be as crazy an idea as it initially sounds.

The thing with the boosting the plexi isn't that big a deal though. I've got a klon hopefully rolling in today so I'd like to think that the boost function on the 20th isn't all THAT in comparsion to the klon.

Either way, I'd have to dump at least 1 or 2 of my amps to offset the cost of the 101b and probably 3 amps if I buy the 20th. I know that it does enough to make a lot of amps obsolete and I try to justify it by telling myself that I really only plug into 1 or 2 amps these days anyways...

Decisions like this suck when these kinda price tags are on the line .. even more so when you're also trying to save up for a new car

 

[se7en]

The 20th if you can swing will make you very happy. A 101b is nice, but not the best choice if you need tight bass, unless you swap out the 34's for KT77's.

 

[jlbaxe]

I sold 1 mod50 1 RM100 and a M4 along with a TC G sys to get the 20th and havent looked back. Id have to say it is easier to buy back the other amps now but why. If I had to have just one amp it would be the 20th xtc hands down but I hope I dont ever have to have just one.

 

[FastRedPonyCar]

If I had to have just one amp it would be the 20th xtc hands down but I hope I dont ever have to have just one.

See that's the position I want to be in... I'm pretty picky about my sound and it seems like my brain will have have these mood swings where I want my face melted by my Titan one day and then just chill out with the JTM45 on other days.

I play totally differently depending on what amp I'm plugged into... it's strange. I'll use different phrasing or different picking attacks and react differently to the notes differently based on whatever amp I'm using and I want all of that out of ONE amp and I've yet to plug into one single amp that can deliver that (including the 101 and 100b's)

I think that part of it is just not getting quite as much time with my friend's 101b as I would have liked. I've gotten to use it a couple of weekends and felt like just as I was getting to figure out and know the amp, I'd change something and all that would get thrown out the window and I'd have to start over... so part of it could just be that I haven't given the xtc's enough time yet. His has the 1/2 power and class A~A/B switch and I didn't get a chance to mess much with them.

 

[Ventura]

If I had to have just one amp it would be the 20th xtc hands down but I hope I dont ever have to have just one.

See that's the position I want to be in... I'm pretty picky about my sound and it seems like my brain will have have these mood swings where I want my face melted by my Titan one day and then just chill out with the JTM45 on other days.

I play totally differently depending on what amp I'm plugged into... it's strange. I'll use different phrasing or different picking attacks and react differently to the notes differently based on whatever amp I'm using and I want all of that out of ONE amp and I've yet to plug into one single amp that can deliver that (including the 101 and 100b's)

I think that part of it is just not getting quite as much time with my friend's 101b as I would have liked. I've gotten to use it a couple of weekends and felt like just as I was getting to figure out and know the amp, I'd change something and all that would get thrown out the window and I'd have to start over... so part of it could just be that I haven't given the xtc's enough time yet. His has the 1/2 power and class A~A/B switch and I didn't get a chance to mess much with them.

You need a LOT of time to get acquainted with the 20thA - and bear in mind, mine is loaded with EL34's - so a lot of the discrepancies spoken of regarding the 'standard' 6L6 loaded 20thA don't apply to this particular head - it makes a hella difference to have EL34's in there. I've had mine for 4 months now? I'm still finding new territory on it - but the main thing is, it does dictate my style for certain - I'm not doing uber-nu-metal on it, or any of that super core chugga chugga, I'm doing everything else!! The red channel can go there, but I like my Diezels for the hardcore. This amp is just pure tasty tone - and that's how I play it. You've read this thread - it's been around for a while - I'm just one guy, but all I can say is my 20thA EL34 XTC loaded with ALL the options is not ever going to leave my repertoire of rigs. it's a masterpiece - and I'm loving it daily!!

Can't go wrong but to each their own... Just sayin'.

And man, this thing LIGHTS UP when she gets up around noon on the volume

V.

 

[FastRedPonyCar]

yeah that was sort of what I took away from the short times I got with it. If I got one, it'd be with EL34's. I prefer what they do with the demeanor of the sound vs 6L6's.

I really want it because we cover a lot of sonic territory as a cover band and we do everything from skynyrd and zeppelin to 3 days grace and deftones. That's about as heavy as we get and when my buddy was doing rhythm for us, the red channel on his 101b worked out really well but the one thing that really stood out between it and the nitro/titan on stage was how much more compressed it was compared to the nitro and titan. The nitro sits sort of in between the xtc and the titan.. the titan is almost TOO clean and uncompressed on stage.. it's really weird even at herbert quantities of gain saturation there's like zero give or compression with the power section. I've tried everything from 6L6's, EL34's, 6550's and KT88's and it's just too clean and the sag that the 101b brings is what I really liked for the low gain and classic rock/blues stuff. For the really heavy stuff it was on the verge of too compressed and that's another reason i'm leaning towards the 20th

The nitro is better with that with it's resonance control. It's sort of like a bold/spongy mesa control only with an adjustable ability but when you turn it on, it's going to give you ONE sound.. it's a very very good sound but I have to use 2 different overdrive pedals during the shows and am constantly reaching back to twist a couple of knobs to get it sounding right for certain songs and I want an amp that while not necessarily will give me EVERY tone I ever wanted out of an amp, I want all the tones I NEED to pull off our set list with minimal down time to reach back and fiddle with knobs/switches and it seems like the XTC has that.

My fear with the CCV is that it won't be any different from the titan and nitro from that particular view point.

 

[Ventura]

yeah that was sort of what I took away from the short times I got with it. If I got one, it'd be with EL34's. I prefer what they do with the demeanor of the sound vs 6L6's.

I really want it because we cover a lot of sonic territory as a cover band and we do everything from skynyrd and zeppelin to 3 days grace and deftones. That's about as heavy as we get and when my buddy was doing rhythm for us, the red channel on his 101b worked out really well but the one thing that really stood out between it and the nitro/titan on stage was how much more compressed it was compared to the nitro and titan. The nitro sits sort of in between the xtc and the titan.. the titan is almost TOO clean and uncompressed on stage.. it's really weird even at herbert quantities of gain saturation there's like zero give or compression with the power section. I've tried everything from 6L6's, EL34's, 6550's and KT88's and it's just too clean and the sag that the 101b brings is what I really liked for the low gain and classic rock/blues stuff. For the really heavy stuff it was on the verge of too compressed and that's another reason i'm leaning towards the 20th

The nitro is better with that with it's resonance control. It's sort of like a bold/spongy mesa control only with an adjustable ability but when you turn it on, it's going to give you ONE sound.. it's a very very good sound but I have to use 2 different overdrive pedals during the shows and am constantly reaching back to twist a couple of knobs to get it sounding right for certain songs and I want an amp that while not necessarily will give me EVERY tone I ever wanted out of an amp, I want all the tones I NEED to pull off our set list with minimal down time to reach back and fiddle with knobs/switches and it seems like the XTC has that.

My fear with the CCV is that it won't be any different from the titan and nitro from that particular view point.

Well, in short - I've said this before and I'll say it again, as far as going from one end of the sonic spectrum to the other, the 20thA with EL34's does so with ease and power. It doesn't go into the nether regions of sterile, compressed, thick nu-metal hi-fi gain; and it doesn't sound like a shimmering Vox loaded with 6L6's through 15W Alnico's - more piano like in the cleans than sparkly, but there's still some glisse there for certain. ANYWAY - thing is, with the 20thA, I found I used less and less of my stomps than with any other rig - the sounds that come from it naturally are amazing... Now, everyone has their own likes and dislikes to tone, fair enough. To me personally, this amp could not sound better in all the applications I use it for.

And ya have to turn it up to really hear it breath and sing!! Just AWESOME man... I can get the long, non-decayed gnawing chewy gains out of it (think AIC), I can get the punchy, percussive low end throttle hits of detuned mania (Deftones) with a ton of bass, and I can play blues and noodle like none other on the rest of it. Channel 2 is a better iteration of a 'plexi' than the original plexi, bar none - again, YMMV. But with all the bells and whistles - dude, c'mon, you're buying an amp that's got more play than a 4 martini cheerleader

V.

 

[Ventura]

Not an intentional bump, but gotsta say...

Now that the 20thA 4x12 loaded with V30's has completely smoothed out with its break in period, this thing sounds out-f*ckin-rageous.

My love for this amp will never die... Imagine, it started perfect. Now, after several months, the cab when cranked and mic'd compared to what I was recording a few months ago?? Noticeably different - and I loved it as it was!!! But it just so happens, ya, it's done now - completely preened and pounded (with love). Sounds just bloody unbelievable, I didn't think it could get better - it did.

I've heard some rumors that KT77's (specifically Genalex/Gold Lion) are the bees knees in this head (the EL34 loaded version). I can't imagine it getting better. If and when my tubes go or blow, I may try them out, but I'll make sure to order another quad of EL34's as well - this thing is just perfect to my ears.

THANK YOU REINHOLD!!!!

The official end of my review.

V.