Church of Scientology's 'Operating Thetan' documents leaked

[Juggernaut]

Ed has made some good points, I however DO NOT like to get into these discussions, hence the 10 point demerit, and I dont share what I believe either. I agree that EVERYONE is entitled to believe what they will, my issue with the topic at hand isnt their beliefs, but the criminal activities, tactics, and overly secrecy to keep the heart of the "religion" safely guarded.

If they are out there to HELP people, be honest and tell it like it is. My question is do they also believe their beliefs are so "out there" that they are ashamed of the truth behind it? Why is it they WILL NOT discuss Xenu (who they are not introduced to until they have reached OT3 and paid their $360,000), they dont discuss ANYTHING, and you have to be "tested" to be accepted.....WTF is that?

anyways, I digress.

I hate these religious discussions, it doesnt do any good, but make people feel insulted, and this is why I'm not joining that part of the discussion.....sorry.

 

[Gainfreak]

the idea that scientology has anything to do with the concept of "church" is sad and misleading. the further in you dig the more menacing it gets.

i also observe an amazing amount of dialogue either rejecting or flat out insulting the Christian faith, which when it happens, compels me to speak.

when you dig in to the very start of life and matter, and the biblical idea of God "creating the heavens and earth" (creation theory),

and then fail to observe how today *modern* science believes a "big bang" theory suggests all matter emanating from one central staring point, singularity, is totally in line with creation theory---ie God is the answer to "singularity" scientists are trying to find--

but are too proud or stubborn to accept that a silly ancient book full of fairy tales had it right all along, and that it makes no sense that someone could have predicted something so sophisticated or advanced back then...when it took generations of work from the best minds on the planet to scientifically get to this point...

unless perhaps the Creator Himself gave them the information as a means to prove His existence to a fallen generation thousands of years in the future,

it points out one of the greatest "i told you so's" of all time in my opinion.

Omnipresence...the ability to be in multiple places in multiple points in time at once. fiction???

Consider a scientist who looks at a star exploding millions of miles away through a telescope. He is experiencing an event in his version of "now" which actually occurred in the "past", delayed by the limitations the speed of light presents.
two separate and distinct events, occurring maybe hundreds or thousands of years apart, yet seemingly connected to the present??

a no brainer for God who not only created all things but TIME itself.

So Jesus walking on water, or changing water to wine, or calming a stormy sea, or withering a fig tree, or bringing the dead to life, or materializing or disappearing in front of hundreds of witnesses, or multiplying baskets of fish and bread, or healing the blind, or casting out demons, or predicting the future, dying for our sins and conquering death itself,

or coming back to set this wretched world straight,

seems not only believable, but fitting and just for the son of the Creator of the universe.


ahh..now i'm happy again

I don't think it's as much a matter of rejecting and/or insulting any faith. FWIW, my entire point has to do with organized religion and not faith...big difference.
But more to the point, you have no qualms questioning Scientology yet have a hard time when some one else does the very same with your faith. That is what I'm saying, it should be a 2 way street.
I have no issues with anyone believing what they choose. No matter whether I think the bases of their religion makes sense or not.

That is a huge point and one that I share with you.

I cannot for the life of me figure out why the belief of Many Gods is anymore comical then the belief of "A" God. I have my own beliefs and I would never make fun of anyone elses but who here knows for SURE what the truth is.

 

[Gainfreak]

...I have my own beliefs and I would never make fun of anyone elses but who here knows for SURE what the truth is.

I think it's a safe bet there was no evil alien Xenu that put beings into volcanos, blew them up with H-bombs, trapped their souls in a magnetic field, forced the souls to watch movies in multiplex cinemas, etc... Just sayin...

Says you

 

[degenaro]

Ed has made some good points, I however DO NOT like to get into these discussions, hence the 10 point demerit, and I dont share what I believe either. I agree that EVERYONE is entitled to believe what they will, my issue with the topic at hand isnt their beliefs, but the criminal activities, tactics, and overly secrecy to keep the heart of the "religion" safely guarded.

If they are out there to HELP people, be honest and tell it like it is. My question is do they also believe their beliefs are so "out there" that they are ashamed of the truth behind it? Why is it they WILL NOT discuss Xenu (who they are not introduced to until they have reached OT3 and paid their $360,000), they dont discuss ANYTHING, and you have to be "tested" to be accepted.....WTF is that?

anyways, I digress.

I hate these religious discussions, it doesnt do any good, but make people feel insulted, and this is why I'm not joining that part of the discussion.....sorry.

Agreed, that's why I usually steer clear of these kind of discussions as well. In this though it just struck me that there is most definitely a lack of equality when it becomes of making light of one set of beliefs over others.
But the things you brings up have parallels in other religions just the same. They all have their skeletons in the proverbial closet.

 

[Juggernaut]

very true.......... Scientology is just the "target o the week"

 

[degenaro]

...I have my own beliefs and I would never make fun of anyone elses but who here knows for SURE what the truth is.

I think it's a safe bet there was no evil alien Xenu that put beings into volcanos, blew them up with H-bombs, trapped their souls in a magnetic field, forced the souls to watch movies in multiplex cinemas, etc... Just sayin...

I agree...but just because some one clings to a set of values and beliefs that doesn't line up with mine or yours does not make it any different than other religions.
Look...Christianity has speaking temptress snakes, reanimated carpenters, parting oceans, self combusting bushes, astrally delivered laws hammerd in stone, alchemist's dreams of water into wine, etc...how is it okay to make fun of the one, but the other is a big taboo?
Shit, Hinduism has the origin's of our planet as an egg that cracked open and gave birth to all things.

So, where I find the concept of Scientology just as funny as you do. I do have a huge issue with any one that is a self proclaimed anything make fun of this...

 

[ejecta]

You're loosing me here. What if not man made is where religion originates at?
Are you telling me that the world's oldest religions that are stil practiced ( Zoroastrianism and Hinduism) are made by whom....
Here's where I have to wonder, I usually see these discussions by "Christians", come on, that religion goes back how long? 2000 years...

Im not sure I follow you.

I'm referring to the statement that Religion may not be man made...I believe they are certainly man made, how why they origated is a different story. But organised religion is very man made in my book.

Ahhhh yes. I'm sure it could be depending on how you define religion.

Mariam Webster is (1) the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Under that definition Im not sure they are all man made.

If you are talking about "organised religion" as in the institutions and systems set up by men where you can see by their actions that they are doing "relgion" for power then yes I agree. But not all religions are set up for this purpose. There are some people who meet and worship God and use the principles taught by the Bible to try and live a loving life without seeking power over others. So when a religion is in that aspect I dont see that is is an "organised relgion" as I defined earlier. I find it's more of a "relational religion" with God that propagates to others.

 

[degenaro]

Ahhhh yes. I'm sure it could be depending on how you define religion.

Mariam Webster is (1) the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Under that definition Im not sure they are all man made.

If you are talking about "organised religion" as in the institutions and systems set up by men where you can see by their actions that they are doing "relgion" for power then yes I agree. But not all religions are set up for this purpose. There are some people who meet and worship God and use the principles taught by the Bible to try and live a loving life without seeking power over others. So when a religion is in that aspect I dont see that is is an "organised relgion" as I defined earlier. I find it's more of a "relational religion" with God that propagates to others.

Hence man made...
I take this a step further, in Germany a religion has to be "accepted" as such an organization to exist as a "Religion" and all accompanying tax breaks etc...
Funnily enough Scientology is banned in germany since the German government views them as a cult.
They have taken out long running full page ads in german newspapers complaining about the Holocaust like persecution of Scientology by Germany, not gonna get them very far.

 

[ejecta]

So, where I find the concept of Scientology just as funny as you do. I do have a huge issue with any one that is a self proclaimed anything make fun of this...

I completely agree which is why you havent seen me post one thing making fun of Scientologists.

 

[ejecta]

Hence man made...

Im not sure I follow how you know all religions even the ones that dont try pull power plays like you claimed happens in Germany are man made. That is if Im reading you right.

 

[degenaro]

Hence man made...

Im not sure I follow how you know all religions even the ones that dont try pull power plays like you claimed happens in Germany are man made. That is if Im reading you right.

I was trying to say that yes I was referring to the type of religion that you mentioned in the first part of your post and the dictionary definition, which to me seemed that we were in agreement on.

 

[degenaro]

I'm okay with saying that I think Scientologists are fruitcakes to believe in this Star Wars story...

Then what you think Christians, Mormons, Hindis are?

 

[tweed]

You know what the sadest thing is about this entire thread? It's like a trainwreck that I can't stop looking at. No matter how much of the Scientology stuff I read, I still want to read more. Its like a really bad B slasher movie and your waiting for the hot chick to get killed and maybe get a tit shot, but it never happens.

 

[Gainfreak]

You know what the sadest thing is about this entire thread? It's like a trainwreck that I can't stop looking at. No matter how much of the Scientology stuff I read, I still want to read more. Its like a really bad B slasher movie and your waiting for the hot chick to get killed and maybe get a tit shot, but it never happens.

This should keep you very occupied


http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

 

[tweed]

You know what the sadest thing is about this entire thread? It's like a trainwreck that I can't stop looking at. No matter how much of the Scientology stuff I read, I still want to read more. Its like a really bad B slasher movie and your waiting for the hot chick to get killed and maybe get a tit shot, but it never happens.

This should keep you very occupied


http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

I get this really weird feeling that you enjoy fucking with me.

 

[Juggernaut]

You know what the sadest thing is about this entire thread? It's like a trainwreck that I can't stop looking at. No matter how much of the Scientology stuff I read, I still want to read more. Its like a really bad B slasher movie and your waiting for the hot chick to get killed and maybe get a tit shot, but it never happens.

same here, but I really enjoy reading about religions/cults, conspiracy ideas, masons, area 51, etc..... I find it all very intriguing.

 

[Telephant]

If Jesus is cool with doing blow and beating up hookers than Im cool with Jesus.

 

[Juggernaut]

You know what the sadest thing is about this entire thread? It's like a trainwreck that I can't stop looking at. No matter how much of the Scientology stuff I read, I still want to read more. Its like a really bad B slasher movie and your waiting for the hot chick to get killed and maybe get a tit shot, but it never happens.

This should keep you very occupied


http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

I found that piece completely boring and one sided..... Give me both sides, and I'll come to my own conclusions.

 

[Shiny_Surface]

I'm okay with saying that I think Scientologists are fruitcakes to believe in this Star Wars story...

Then what you think Christians, Mormons, Hindis are?

I'm not going to defend organized religion, but if you can't see some glaring differences between Scientology and those religions I don't know what to tell you...

Do the other religions require significant money up front right away *to even get in* to have your brain cleared for starters...

Just playing a little devil's advocate, whoops I just used another religious reference!

 

[Telephant]

You know what the sadest thing is about this entire thread? It's like a trainwreck that I can't stop looking at. No matter how much of the Scientology stuff I read, I still want to read more. Its like a really bad B slasher movie and your waiting for the hot chick to get killed and maybe get a tit shot, but it never happens.

This should keep you very occupied


http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

Ive watched this a few times. Most of it is just regurgitated info thats been out for awhile, but still pretty entertaining.

What do you think about it?