Church of Scientology's 'Operating Thetan' documents leaked

[redrol]

essentially yes, we are all evolved star dust

Where did the star dust evolve from?

The big bang and before that we have no data so thats the extent of what humans know.

If you try and play the god card at this point you can ask the same question, ie, what did god evolve (come) from.

The point of all this is that I can imagine an infinite number of ideas of how the universe came about but just imagining it does not make it true. The point of science is to keep trying to learn.

 

[ejecta]

As you know, I respect your right to believe what you do as well, regardless of what I think. Thanks for your thoughts... now go play your guitar!

Steve

I wish I could. I need to bring a guitar to work and practice why Im waiting on my renderings instaed of talking on forums.

 

[mentoneman]

the idea that scientology has anything to do with the concept of "church" is sad and misleading. the further in you dig the more menacing it gets.

i also observe an amazing amount of dialogue either rejecting or flat out insulting the Christian faith, which when it happens, compels me to speak.

when you dig in to the very start of life and matter, and the biblical idea of God "creating the heavens and earth" (creation theory),

and then fail to observe how today *modern* science believes a "big bang" theory suggests all matter emanating from one central staring point, singularity, is totally in line with creation theory---ie God is the answer to "singularity" scientists are trying to find--

but are too proud or stubborn to accept that a silly ancient book full of fairy tales had it right all along, and that it makes no sense that someone could have predicted something so sophisticated or advanced back then...when it took generations of work from the best minds on the planet to scientifically get to this point...

unless perhaps the Creator Himself gave them the information as a means to prove His existence to a fallen generation thousands of years in the future,

it points out one of the greatest "i told you so's" of all time in my opinion.

Omnipresence...the ability to be in multiple places in multiple points in time at once. fiction???

Consider a scientist who looks at a star exploding millions of miles away through a telescope. He is experiencing an event in his version of "now" which actually occurred in the "past", delayed by the limitations the speed of light presents.
two separate and distinct events, occurring maybe hundreds or thousands of years apart, yet seemingly connected to the present??

a no brainer for God who not only created all things but TIME itself.

So Jesus walking on water, or changing water to wine, or calming a stormy sea, or withering a fig tree, or bringing the dead to life, or materializing or disappearing in front of hundreds of witnesses, or multiplying baskets of fish and bread, or healing the blind, or casting out demons, or predicting the future, dying for our sins and conquering death itself,

or coming back to set this wretched world straight,

seems not only believable, but fitting and just for the son of the Creator of the universe.


ahh..now i'm happy again

 

[ejecta]

The truth is that all our lives are empty and meaningless in and of themselves

My life is nothing without you in it

I can feel the love.

 

[ejecta]

Then why do look to science to provide you truth?

 

[redrol]

the idea that scientology has anything to do with the concept of "church" is sad and misleading. the further in you dig the more menacing it gets.

i also observe an amazing amount of dialogue either rejecting or flat out insulting the Christian faith, which when it happens, compels me to speak.

when you dig in to the very start of life and matter, and the biblical idea of God "creating the heavens and earth" (creation theory),

and then fail to observe how today *modern* science believes a "big bang" theory suggests all matter emanating from one central staring point, singularity, is totally in line with creation theory---ie God is the answer to "singularity" scientists are trying to find--

but are too proud or stubborn to accept that a silly ancient book full of fairy tales had it right all along, and that it makes no sense that someone could have predicted something so sophisticated or advanced back then...when it took generations of work from the best minds on the planet to scientifically get to this point...

unless perhaps the Creator Himself gave them the information as a means to prove His existence to a fallen generation thousands of years in the future,

it points out one of the greatest "i told you so's" of all time in my opinion.

Omnipresence...the ability to be in multiple places in multiple points in time at once. fiction???

Consider a scientist who looks at a star exploding millions of miles away through a telescope. He is experiencing an event in his version of "now" which actually occurred in the "past", delayed by the limitations the speed of light presents.
two separate and distinct events, occurring maybe hundreds or thousands of years apart, yet seemingly connected to the present??

a no brainer for God who not only created all things but TIME itself.

So Jesus walking on water, or changing water to wine, or calming a stormy sea, or withering a fig tree, or bringing the dead to life, or materializing or disappearing in front of hundreds of witnesses, or multiplying baskets of fish and bread, or healing the blind, or casting out demons, or predicting the future, dying for our sins and conquering death itself,

or coming back to set this wretched world straight,

seems not only believable, but fitting and just for the son of the Creator of the universe.


ahh..now i'm happy again

The point of all this is that I can imagine an infinite number of ideas of how the universe came about but just imagining it does not make it true. The point of science is to keep trying to learn.

god is no answer, it is a non-answer

 

[redrol]

Then why do look to science to provide you truth?

Because I realize that god has no answers that help me in my life. Science does.

You may or may not care but I was raised Catholic from birth, was baptized and went to church for nearly 18 years. I do resent wasting so much time and effort early on in my life. I could have learned another instrument or developed a hobby or interest. Instead of all that I wasted time memorizing a 2000 year old book.

 

[Juggernaut]

topic = Church of Scientology's 'Operating Thetan' documents leaked



lets PLEASE stay on topic.

 

[redrol]

topic = Church of Scientology's 'Operating Thetan' documents leaked



lets PLEASE stay on topic.

You know, there is a top secret bunker in New Mexico (where I live) that the scientologists created to hold the texts of scientology for ever. I was really fucking surprised they went to all this trouble.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/26/AR2005112601065.html

Scary shit!

 

[ejecta]

Because I realize that god has no answers that help me in my life. Science does.

You may or may not care but I was raised Catholic from birth, was baptized and went to church for nearly 18 years.

Oh I care cause I believe God calls us all to love everyone. Even those who see things different from myself. Thanks for sharing your background and I truly truly understand. I wasnt raised Catholic but was raised in a Christian home and I walked away from it too at one point.

Have you ever thought how it could be dangerous to look to science for some answers on truth? For example you brought up natural selection, if I were too see you as a threat to my ablilty to own the guitar gear I wanted and just because Im naturally bigger, smarter, and faster than you and I came to your house, figured out a way to break in and take your life and gear, by science's definition of natural selection and survival of the fittest it would be true that my actions would be o.k. but I have a feeling you would think otherwise.

If you dont mind me asking have you ever looked to God for answers outside what you were taught in the Catholic Church?

 

[Ultron]

I try not to put too much stock in the scientific arguement/denouncement of religion. If you look back only a couple hundred years, the scientific community had little or no understanding of genetics, subatomic particles, etc. For us to simply write off religion because current science cannot prove it is silly. A cockroach cannot see or comprehend gravity, but that does not mean it doesn't exist.

 

[ejecta]

I try not to put too much stock in the scientific arguement/denouncement of religion. If you look back only a couple hundred years, the scientific community had little or no understanding of genetics, subatomic particles, etc. For us to simply write off religion because current science cannot prove it is silly. A cockroach cannot see or comprehend gravity, but that does not mean it doesn't exist.

Very good thought provoking point.

topic = Church of Scientology's 'Operating Thetan' documents leaked

lets PLEASE stay on topic.

10 demerit points for you for this post.

 

[degenaro]

the idea that scientology has anything to do with the concept of "church" is sad and misleading. the further in you dig the more menacing it gets.

i also observe an amazing amount of dialogue either rejecting or flat out insulting the Christian faith, which when it happens, compels me to speak.

when you dig in to the very start of life and matter, and the biblical idea of God "creating the heavens and earth" (creation theory),

and then fail to observe how today *modern* science believes a "big bang" theory suggests all matter emanating from one central staring point, singularity, is totally in line with creation theory---ie God is the answer to "singularity" scientists are trying to find--

but are too proud or stubborn to accept that a silly ancient book full of fairy tales had it right all along, and that it makes no sense that someone could have predicted something so sophisticated or advanced back then...when it took generations of work from the best minds on the planet to scientifically get to this point...

unless perhaps the Creator Himself gave them the information as a means to prove His existence to a fallen generation thousands of years in the future,

it points out one of the greatest "i told you so's" of all time in my opinion.

Omnipresence...the ability to be in multiple places in multiple points in time at once. fiction???

Consider a scientist who looks at a star exploding millions of miles away through a telescope. He is experiencing an event in his version of "now" which actually occurred in the "past", delayed by the limitations the speed of light presents.
two separate and distinct events, occurring maybe hundreds or thousands of years apart, yet seemingly connected to the present??

a no brainer for God who not only created all things but TIME itself.

So Jesus walking on water, or changing water to wine, or calming a stormy sea, or withering a fig tree, or bringing the dead to life, or materializing or disappearing in front of hundreds of witnesses, or multiplying baskets of fish and bread, or healing the blind, or casting out demons, or predicting the future, dying for our sins and conquering death itself,

or coming back to set this wretched world straight,

seems not only believable, but fitting and just for the son of the Creator of the universe.


ahh..now i'm happy again

I don't think it's as much a matter of rejecting and/or insulting any faith. FWIW, my entire point has to do with organized religion and not faith...big difference.
But more to the point, you have no qualms questioning Scientology yet have a hard time when some one else does the very same with your faith. That is what I'm saying, it should be a 2 way street.
I have no issues with anyone believing what they choose. No matter whether I think the bases of their religion makes sense or not.

 

[ejecta]

I don't think it's as much a matter of rejecting and/or insulting any faith. FWIW, my entire point has to do with organized religion and not faith...big difference.
But more to the point, you have no qualms questioning Scientology yet have a hard time when some one else does the very same with your faith. That is what I'm saying, it should be a 2 way street.
I have no issues with anyone believing what they choose. No matter whether I think the bases of their religion makes sense or not.

I think your point has alot of merit Ed.

 

[degenaro]

Of course, I can still choose to believe that what someone else believes is completely ridiculous.

Steve

Steve Im not writing this directly to you as Im just speaking generally to an idea here. Real quick though, I too grew up in a very religious household and completely understand where you are coming from as I too walked away from it at one point as I too had had enough. Anyway thats another story, the only reason I qouted what you said is because it sparked a thought Id like to share. While I too hate "religious institutions" as in the institutions that men use to further their own agenda, (btw Jesus hated that also) I find that not all religions or beliefs in God are just that.

That said, I also find it inconsistant to claim that all religions are man made and just thought up. Let me explain... to do so is to claim that you have the ability sit back and see everything in this world and history as a whole. It also smacks of the idea that you have total knowledge of all history and complete understanding how the world works and where things orginate from..... ie you claim to know it all as you know for a fact that all religions are based on a falsehood. I find it ironic that the finger is always pointed at "religious" people as the ones that are close minded know-it-alls, when the ones who say such things are just as guilty of the same when they try and prove people of faith are wrong to believe in what they do.

I personally find it better to not lump people and their beliefs into big stereo typical groups and alow alot of room in this world for some mystery and awe at the complex world we live in. Just my worlthless .02

You're loosing me here. What if not man made is where religion originates at?
Are you telling me that the world's oldest religions that are stil practiced ( Zoroastrianism and Hinduism) are made by whom....
Here's where I have to wonder, I usually see these discussions by "Christians", come on, that religion goes back how long? 2000 years...

 

[ejecta]

You're loosing me here. What if not man made is where religion originates at?
Are you telling me that the world's oldest religions that are stil practiced ( Zoroastrianism and Hinduism) are made by whom....
Here's where I have to wonder, I usually see these discussions by "Christians", come on, that religion goes back how long? 2000 years...

Im not sure I follow you.

 

[Zyngath]

some more food for thought.........


http://www.xenutv.com

 

[degenaro]

Because I realize that god has no answers that help me in my life. Science does.

You may or may not care but I was raised Catholic from birth, was baptized and went to church for nearly 18 years.

Oh I care cause I believe God calls us all to love everyone. Even those who see things different from myself. Thanks for sharing your background and I truly truly understand. I wasnt raised Catholic but was raised in a Christian home and I walked away from it too at one point.

Have you ever thought how it could be dangerous to look to science for some answers on truth? For example you brought up natural selection, if I were too see you as a threat to my ablilty to own the guitar gear I wanted and just because Im naturally bigger, smarter, and faster than you and I came to your house, figured out a way to break in and take your life and gear, by science's definition of natural selection and survival of the fittest it would be true that my actions would be o.k. but I have a feeling you would think otherwise.

If you dont mind me asking have you ever looked to God for answers outside what you were taught in the Catholic Church?

This is where it's at for me. I'm mos def an Agnostic, cannot stomach the concept of organised religion but do have my own odd ball set of faith based believes.

 

[degenaro]

You're loosing me here. What if not man made is where religion originates at?
Are you telling me that the world's oldest religions that are stil practiced ( Zoroastrianism and Hinduism) are made by whom....
Here's where I have to wonder, I usually see these discussions by "Christians", come on, that religion goes back how long? 2000 years...

Im not sure I follow you.

I'm referring to the statement that Religion may not be man made...I believe they are certainly man made, how why they origated is a different story. But organised religion is very man made in my book.

 

[Juggernaut]

topic = Church of Scientology's 'Operating Thetan' documents leaked

lets PLEASE stay on topic.

10 demerit points for you for this post.