Duncan Distortion for VH1 tone ?

[ccn]

I thought WACF had that ratty fuzz riding on the single distorted notes just like what I hear on VH1. Fair Warning seems like it's own animal altogether regarding Ed's tone IMHO. The only pickups that produce the ratty fuzz effect on the single notes is the Mighty Mite 1300/1400 and the vintage Dimarzio Super Distortions at least to my ears anyway. The Ibanez Super 70's can also have those qualities just no as pronounced and the Might Mites do, with those it's right in your face....bammo.

Give me a solo in what song so I can hear an example , I don't recall ratty fuzz on VH I .

 

[ccn]

Honestly I think Ed's tastes changed so often it could be a PAF, and overwound PAF, a Mighty Mite 1300/1400, Dimarzio SD, Duncan custom wound anywere from 12K to the 14.5K that the JB winds were at that time in 1978 and I bet the SH-5 customs were more in the 12-13K range at that time. Ed ripping out pickups from show to show could have been a reality at just about any time of the week during 1978.

I have an old early 80's Duncan Seymourizer II which measures 12.5 K that does VH1 much better that the Duncan Custom because it is more balanced and clanky like a PAF without the extra mids push of a 14K SH-5 Custom yet is still aggressive and has alot of power, it could also be a contender as it was Seymours hot pickup before the Custom came into his lineup, it was there with the JB in the early days of Seymour's shop.

I also had an early 80's Duncan Custom and I just felt if was better at doing harder rock than VH1, due to the added compression and mids emphasis. But as with most pickups they all can sound and feel different from wind to wind really.

Those pickup comparison videos shed alot of light on the attributes of just about every pickup known to exist at the time of the reocrding and live tour in 1978. In the end your ears will lead you to your answer and what you like for those tones.

I wish I was able to detect the subtle differences you seem to be able to pick up .


To me they all sound so close . That Pete Thorn video tested a shitload of pickups to get that VH I sound and I they all sounded acceptable . None clearly sounded much better to me than the others .

 

[Ben Waylin]

I wish I was able to detect the subtle differences you seem to be able to pick up .


To me they all sound so close . That Pete Thorn video tested a shitload of pickups to get that VH I sound and I they all sounded acceptable . None clearly sounded much better to me than the others .

The pickup makes a subtle difference in the "sound".

To me, the pickup is more about the "feel".

Your mileage may vary.

 

[ccn]

The pickup makes a subtle difference in the "sound".

To me, the pickup is more about the "feel".

Your mileage may vary.

I think when you change major aspects of the pickup you will hear a noticeable difference like a different type of magnet etc...

 

[harddriver]

Give me a solo in what song so I can hear an example , I don't recall ratty fuzz on VH I .

That ratty almost fuzzlike distortion rides on the single closed notes on ascending/descending runs and closed notes of chords and it is always there and is really only present in the mighty mite and Super Distortion pickups it's also alot more crunchy and abrasive yet it clanks like a PAF. Listen closely to the clips in Ossie's Ahsen comparision video, it's there and Ossie comments on it as well. I hear it with my Might Mite 1400 and not so much with my SD78 model. Once you hear it in Ossie video and the live recordings you can't unhear it IMHO and it's key to VH1 tone. I always thought it was the amp contributing to that but it was the pickup.

Listen closely to Die Laughing, the album release party and you'll hear it live. Much different sounding than the VHII tour and then on.

The best I can do is go to 18:35 Somebody Get Me Doctor and hear the difference from this version to the Warmer PAF version on VHII album. Remember Ed stated he hated his VH1 tone, he said it was too brittle and harsh sounding, he grew to not like it, hence a different pickup evolution.

 

[harddriver]

I wish I was able to detect the subtle differences you seem to be able to pick up .


To me they all sound so close . That Pete Thorn video tested a shitload of pickups to get that VH I sound and I they all sounded acceptable . None clearly sounded much better to me than the others .

Yes...... alot can sound perfectly acceptable but to nail that crunchy in your face almost fuzz like distortion on the root notes yet still have some harmonic content for solos the Mighty Mite 1400/1300 has it in spades.

I was quite happy with my SD 78 model and Seymourizer II for years. You can hear in my clips it sounds great for VH1 but when I listened to Ossie Ahsen's comparison video I was like.... "Son of a bitch".....there's what I was hearing all those years.

Call it a blessing or a curse I hear it quite distinctly and as soon as I put my Mighty Mite 1400 in a guitar that had an 80's SD SH-5 14K Custom for quite a while that I was never 100% happy with there it was VH1 ratty, fuzz like crunch in all of it's glory. Anyone still searching for VH1 tone should really give the Mighty Mite a whirl, new or vintage. Mine were brand new and they are still Made in the USA exactly the same way they made them in 1978 by the same guy even.

 

[hammered]

That ratty almost fuzzlike distortion rides on the single closed notes on ascending/descending runs and closed notes of chords and it is always there and is really only present in the mighty mite and Super Distortion pickups it's also alot more crunchy and abrasive yet it clanks like a PAF. Listen closely to the clips in Ossie's Ahsen comparision video, it's there and Ossie comments on it as well. I hear it with my Might Mite 1400 and not so much with my SD78 model. Once you hear it in Ossie video and the live recordings you can't unhear it IMHO and it's key to VH1 tone. I always thought it was the amp contributing to that but it was the pickup.

Listen closely to Die Laughing, the album release party and you'll hear it live. Much different sounding than the VHII tour and then on.

The best I can do is go to 18:35 Somebody Get Me Doctor and hear the difference from this version to the Warmer PAF version on VHII album. Remember Ed stated he hated his VH1 tone, he said it was too brittle and harsh sounding, he grew to not like it, hence a different pickup evolution.

The isolated version of SGMAD that ended up on VH ll sounds really raunchy , I love it

 

[paulyc]

This thread delivers

 

[Cless357]

Yes...... alot can sound perfectly acceptable but to nail that crunchy in your face almost fuzz like distortion on the root notes yet still have some harmonic content for solos the Mighty Mite 1400/1300 has it in spades.

I was quite happy with my SD 78 model and Seymourizer II for years. You can hear in my clips it sounds great for VH1 but when I listened to Ossie Ahsen's comparison video I was like.... "Son of a bitch".....there's what I was hearing all those years.

Call it a blessing or a curse I hear it quite distinctly and as soon as I put my Mighty Mite 1400 in a guitar that had an 80's SD SH-5 14K Custom for quite a while that I was never 100% happy with there it was VH1 ratty, fuzz like crunch in all of it's glory. Anyone still searching for VH1 tone should really give the Mighty Mite a whirl, new or vintage. Mine were brand new and they are still Made in the USA exactly the same way they made them in 1978 by the same guy even.

How would you describe the Mighty Mite 1300 compared to the 1400 ?
Also, even if they are often considered to be clone of the Super Distortion and the Super 2, those who have tested both say it's not really true.

 

[Stradazone]

How would you describe the Mighty Mite 1300 compared to the 1400 ?
Also, even if they are often considered to be clone of the Super Distortion and the Super 2, those who have tested both say it's not really true.

the 1300 is very compressed maybe a little dark, the 1400 is brighter more open, the 1300 sounds nothing like a Super Distortion, to me it sounds more like a Duncan Custom

 

[BenoA]

This thread delivers

Was to say the same and you beat me to it

 

[harddriver]

The isolated version of SGMAD that ended up on VH ll sounds really raunchy , I love it

Since you hear VH playing somebody get me a doctor live on the VH1 album release party before the 78 tour tells me they probably recorded it for VH1 but Ted Templeman held it back for VHII and rearranged it some for VHII. Either way the live version is just so much more ratty sounding with that almost fuzz enveloping the distortion root notes just confirms it for me anyway it was either the Mighty Mite or Dimarizio Super Distortion on VH1( and my ears tell me it was the Mighty Mite and at least the first few shows of the VH1 tour and you hear it plain as day in the Die Laughing recording.

I fully agree the VHII gets raunchy but more inline with a PAF but the version at the album release party is over the top crunchy/fuzzy but with some PAF qualities to it which I feel the Mighty Mite delivers on.

 

[harddriver]

the 1300 is very compressed maybe a little dark, the 1400 is brighter more open, the 1300 sounds nothing like a Super Distortion, to me it sounds more like a Duncan Custom

I fully agree Al....the 1400 is brighter more open more in the vein of a PAF but still punchy powerful and commanding when you dig in. I have a new 1300 here that measures 14.5K that I haven't even installed just to hear it because the 1400 9K kicks so much ass for VH1....of course that is only my opinion.

I think it would be interesting for Jim Gaustad to try a either a new or vintage Mighty Mite 1400 and see how it stacks up against his Bustbucker 3 PAF or the early vintage JB wind that was made by Jalen.

 

[hammered]

Since you hear VH playing somebody get me a doctor live on the VH1 album release party before the 78 tour tells me they probably recorded it for VH1 but Ted Templeman held it back for VHII and rearranged it some for VHII. Either way the live version is just so much more ratty sounding with that almost fuzz enveloping the distortion root notes just confirms it for me anyway it was either the Mighty Mite or Dimarizio Super Distortion on VH1( and my ears tell me it was the Mighty Mite and at least the first few shows of the VH1 tour and you hear it plain as day in the Die Laughing recording.

I fully agree the VHII gets raunchy but more inline with a PAF but the version at the album release party is over the top crunchy/fuzzy but with some PAF qualities to it which I feel the Mighty Mite delivers on.

Great version of it on the original Warner Bros. demos also

 

[harddriver]

Put your ears to work gentlemen...............................................Tell me the differences you hear???
18:35 Somebody get me a doctor 1977 Album Release Party


Somebody get me doctor 1979 Osaka Japan

 

[hammered]

^ Love that Pasadena Civic show , I originally had it on a Memorex cassette back in the day . Those ‘79 Soundboard shows that’s surfaced over the last few years are awesome as well. There’s tons of pics of him using the Bee on that ‘79 Japan tour so a good chance we’re hearing it in that clip

 

[paulyc]

That ratty sound SEEMS like what people sort of associate the “brown out” quality of brown sound with. I have two double cream OLD Mighty Mite pickups that I’m going to have to install in something ASAP. Thanks to all the contributors ! You guys rock !

 

[harddriver]

Put your ears to work gentlemen...............................................Tell me the differences you hear???
18:35 Somebody get me a doctor 1977 Album Release Party


Somebody get me doctor 1979 Osaka Japan

To my ears the 1977 show is all Mighty Mite at least in Franky and the 1979 tour at least in Osaka sounds more like a PAF or slightly overwound PAF because it is warmer and the attack is slightly softer, it still has some nice crunchy raunch to it but it doesn't have as much of that obscene ratty, fuzzy like, crunch that the 1977 recording does. I would say for the Osaka show it could be any PAF type from slightly overwound to the early Duncan JB with the coil mismatch and in the 13-14K resistance range as I think Ed may have been trying to get away from using the MXR or Boss EQ pedals to tighten things up and boost for solos.

Remember the two big Colorsound metal footswitches on Ed's board were looper pedals for the MXR 6 band and the Echoplexes according to Robin L and that makes a hell of alot of sense because at times it's kind of obvious Ed has more gain and punch for the solos even live.

 

[harddriver]

That ratty sound SEEMS like what people sort of associate the “brown out” quality of brown sound with. I have two double cream OLD Mighty Mite pickups that I’m going to have to install in something ASAP. Thanks to all the contributors ! You guys rock !

It was the ratty VH1 crunch I was chasing for years. The Duncan 78 model does VHII all day long with ease but it misses that distinct ratty almost fuzzy crunch that the Mighty Mite 1400 has at least to my ears. The interest in the early mismatched coil JB is and was probably a progression for Ed trying to get that amp to do all the work and get away from using the EQ pedals(MXR/Boss GE 10) so a more overwound is logical from 1979 forward at least live.

 

[harddriver]

That ratty sound SEEMS like what people sort of associate the “brown out” quality of brown sound with. I have two double cream OLD Mighty Mite pickups that I’m going to have to install in something ASAP. Thanks to all the contributors ! You guys rock !

Give em a try, the worst that could happen is you don't like them.