Duncan Distortion for VH1 tone ?
- Thread starter Cless357
- Start date
Once Ed switched to higher output pickups, he ditched all the little boosts in front of the amp.
The EP-3 preamp pedals are still fun, because they shift certain frequencies and have a neat effect on the tone.
Use a JB style or Super 70 pickup, and you can dispense with all the boosts.
harddriver
Well-known member
Gaustad gets all the gain without any MXR or Boss EQ with a Alnico 3 GIbson Burstbucker. I also feel the EQ's add that little extra push needed for VH1 IMHO. I have yet to find a high output pickup that gives me what my vintage MXR 6 band and EP3 echoplex/EP PRE's impart to my VH1 tone.
Although I have to agree that Gaustad's getting the tone without any EQ up front but he is using the entire recording signal chain but I do believe he did an in the room recording once and it still sounded great so like PLX says YMMV.
Gaustad is using custom-wired, sagged-out PT in that homebrew amp.
He is also running the amp on 10 with the cab in an ISO room.
All of which, differ from my rig.
harddriver
Well-known member
It's possible but plenty of people get killer VH1 tone with stock MXR effects and EP3 Echoplexes...myself included so personally I don't think they really were modded. Of course Ed was trying to lead people astray on the VH1 hunt in 1978-1980. I did believe Ed's phase 90 might have been modded with a mix knob to mix in more wet or dry signal which does give the signal a light boost so I picked up a Analogman modded phase 90 with the mix knob it's cool and all but my old stock vintage script phase 90 still sounds great...so YMMV.
I only have to point to Gaustad video's, stock MXR flanger, EP3 Echoplex>Gisbson Burstucker 9K humbucker>Marshall plexi, variaced to 65ACV.
In this video with a Duncan 78 model and a 1969 Ed spec Marshall(amp only thru one cab no reamping either in the video) with the EP3 EPPRE on it's Zeppelin, then at 1:30 I engage the Boss GE7 with the flats mids boost only, no extra level, it's just shaping the signal hitting the plexi, the plexi does the rest really. That's all the gain Ed had really live.
To my ears the below is Ed's tone, it has the gain, the instant feedback, the hair, the grind, the sustain and it's a shit ton of fun to play and with that amp it's all at low volume levels...not mousefart... but reasonable levels. I've been down all roads Ed and like Gaustad have come to my own conclusions and I am satisfied with my results. I still venture out every now and then and try stuff out like reamping with a Musicman HD130 like in the Selland Arena show video, that sound good as well as reamping my Ed spec 68 plexi with my stock 72 Marshall and 67 Fender Bandmaster.
harddriver
Well-known member
Re-amping is just a term people sometimes use to describe amp slaving. Chain is as follows. Marshall 12301 amp (variaced down to 65-80 ACV) ran into a resistive load(JOSE load box with a transformer isolated line out/outs > Multiple power amps to bring the volume up to controllable stage volume levels.... We know Ed used all of these amps as power amps on the 78 tour(Marshall's, Musicman's, Fender Bandmasters, Vox's) up until he started using H&H power amps in the Diver Down Bradshaw era. When exactly and if he ever dropped using the slave setup and power amp setup is unknown because as he played bigger and bigger stages he could run the amps as loud as he wanted. Most things we keep bringing up in this thread were discussed years ago in the EVH forums on the Metro amp forum. I personally don't think he ever stopped slaving to power amps because it is a great way to run effect like echo after the main amps distorted signal before the power amp, but we all love the echoplex effects in front of 12301 so it's all different interpretations to what you want to hear and any point in time that floats your ears boat.
Ed using the load and slave setup was a volume control method that just so happened to sound great and let him run his plexi where he liked it in smaller clubs. I think VH1 was one big happy Ed science experiment probably guided by Jose Arrendondo since he maintained Ed's amps according to Ed.
If you have never read the Robin L thread on the Metro forum I feel it gives the closest true account of how Ed used his gear on the 78 tour.
Here is my 68 Ed spec plexi slaved into a purely resistive load(circa 2011), Suhr Iso lineout to tap the signal then fed to my then stock 1972 Marshall Superlead low input(bright channel) set up exactly the way Robin L and Mark Cameron describes. Now different power amps can give a slightly different tone but they are mostly clean power amps that can add some additional nuances to the tone.
http://forum.metropoulos.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=45834
http://web.archive.org/web/20110720060335/http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24704
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I’m aware of what re-amping is… I wanted to know how YOU did it, specifically with the Music Man amp, was it in through an effects loop return or a front input ? How did Ed do it ? I’d think going into the front of the amp would be the wrong level and impedance causing a mismatch. I always wondered if the Echoplexs were returned to two different amps for the precursor to the Roland SDE3000 W/D/W. Going into an effects return makes the most sense in that situation, but it would have been pretty forward thinking for back then …
harddriver
Well-known member
harddriver
Well-known member
When using my Marshall's as the power amp I used the low input of the bright channel of the amp with the amp set up quite dark. The Robin L thread explains how Ed set up his power amp Marshalls. With my Musicman HD130 and Fender Bandmaster I tended to use the high inputs but the low inputs can be used with no issues at all. It's all how you want to set things up persoanlly really. There are no effects loops on my amps.
It was rumored that the Wooden Head box amp always pictured along with 12301 was Ed's other number 2 amp that was a Super Bass that he used as a power amp alot and that supposedly Ed had Jose convert to be more a dedicated power amp for the 79 tour.
Dave Friedman did confirm it was a Super Bass amp many years ago.
harddriver
Well-known member
No one really knows when Ed quit using the echoplexes before the main amp and altogether especially live before the Roland SDE3000 became his go to echo/delay but he always put the SDE3000 after the main amp and before the power amps to my knowledge.
I believe Robin L addressed that Ed supposedly put the echoplexes after the main amp and before the power amps on the 79 tour if I remember correctly and that's when Jose supposedly converted the wooden head cab to be strictly a power amp head..
harddriver
Well-known member
The Jose load box had three outputs to feed three different power amps. It was rumored that the amps were set up as daisy chained to throw off anyone trying to duplicate but that could easily be 12301 ran into the Jose load box which then feeds three power amps. If you have two main amps into two Jose load boxes you can drive up to 6 Marshall power amps for stage volume one as a main setup and the other as a back up.
Suckerfree gear who Mark Cameron was in business with used to have a clip on YT showing his Jose Load box in action with a Marshall Superlead being reamped by a Mesa Mark IIC+ but it looks like he took that clip down as I could not find it anywhere on his channel.
Here's Ossie's version
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harddriver
Well-known member
In that picture I am going to speculate that 12301 and the wooden headbox amp have their own variac and area used as the main amps into the Jose load boxes and then the line outs were fed to two Marshall 100 amps which can drive 2-4 Marshall 4x12 cabs each. We know Ed was using 8 cabinets onstage for the 78 tour, that would be 4 for the main amp setup and 4 for the back up amp setup. Robin L said the MXR EQ was pulled from Ed's board and staged to confuse people, who knows. As of 78 the echoplexes were run in front of the main amps. The 50 watters were back up amps.
Marshall 12301> Jose load box>two Marshall 100 watt heads> 4 Marshall 4x12 cabs
Then there is the backup amp setup
Marshall Wooden head box amp> Jose load box>two Marshall 100 watt heads >4 Marshall 4x12 cabs
