Harley-Davidson goes woke

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VonBonfire said:
If you are gay and attend one of the events if you gave respect you'd get respect cause nobody really cares about whether you are gay or not. If you shoved your flag in someone's face you'd probably get your ass kicked or at least told off. But yeah I have seen a couple rainbow stickers on oil bags and such. Bikes (and guitars) are a great way to express your individuality. When the company goes woke though, that's shoving it in the face of bikers which will be rejected. The dealerships around here have been pretty good to me so it's unfortunate that it is they who will bear the brunt of the push back with lower sales numbers.
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What exactly is the point of expressing individuality ?
 
Thumbpicker said:
Like tattoos. That's just becoming a different breed of sheep from the one you currently are.

There's nothing new under the sun.
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All my tattoos mean something to me personally and have nothing to do with expressing anything.

I don't play guitar to express anything either.
 
Thumbpicker said:
Sounds like a synonym for expressing individuality ;-)
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Memorializing my dead best friend sounds like a synonym for expressing individuality to you ?

What are you expressing riding your Harley around ? Individuality ?
 
Floyd Eye said:
Memorializing my dead best friend sounds like a synonym for expressing individuality to you ?

What are you expressing riding your Harley around ? Individuality ?
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Oh puleease...

re: the second bit - nope. I don't pretend anything I do is particularly original. It's all been done before.
 
Thumbpicker said:
Oh puleease...

re: the second bit - nope. I don't pretend anything I do is particularly original. It's all been done before.
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Who said anything about original ? There is a big difference between novel and sheep.
 
Ecclesiastes 91So I reflected on all this and concluded that the righteous and the wise and what they do are in God's hands, but no man knows whether love or hate awaits him.2All share a common destiny--the righteous and the wicked, the good and the bad, [1] the clean and the unclean, those who offer sacrifices and those who do not. As it is with the good man, so with the sinner; as it is with those who take oaths, so with those who are afraid to take them.3This is the evil in everything that happens under the sun: The same destiny overtakes all. The hearts of men, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live, and afterward they join the dead.4Anyone who is among the living has hope [2] --even a live dog is better off than a dead lion!5For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten.6Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun.7Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for it is now that God favors what you do.8Always be clothed in white, and always anoint your head with oil.9Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this meaningless life that God has given you under the sun-- all your meaningless days. For this is your lot in life and in your toilsome labor under the sun.10Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave, [3] where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.11I have seen something else under the sun: The race is not to the swift or the battle to the strong, nor does food come to the wise or wealth to the brilliant or favor to the learned; but time and chance happen to them all.12Moreover, no man knows when his hour will come: As fish are caught in a cruel net, or birds are taken in a snare, so men are trapped by evil times that fall unexpectedly upon them.
 
Floyd Eye said:
Who said anything about original ?
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Well you can't be very individual if you are the same as everyone else and unoriginal.

My point is that everyone is basically unoriginal and not particularly individual.
 
Floyd Eye said:
What are you expressing riding your Harley around ? Individuality ?
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I mean, everyone puts their mark on their bike when they start customizing. Like your tattoo commemorating your dead loved one, I have friends who have inherited bikes from dead buddies and so that bike can also function as a memorial or tribute. Essentially at some point a bike can be an artistic statement, just like a custom car or elaborate tattoo.
 
VonBonfire said:
I mean, everyone puts their mark on their bike when they start customizing. Like your tattoo commemorating your dead loved one, I have friends who have inherited bikes from dead buddies and so that bike can also function as a memorial or tribute. Essentially at some point a bike can be an artistic statement, just like a custom car or elaborate tattoo.
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There are degrees of originality - but you could say the act of customising something is even unoriginal. Everyone customises their bikes (or the vast majority). In attempting to be different everyone becomes the same.

If everyone has a slightly different bike we can say everyone is the same in that sense.
 
Thumbpicker said:
There are degrees of originality - but you could say the act of customising something is even unoriginal. Everyone customises their bikes (or the vast majority). In attempting to be different everyone becomes the same.
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Agreed on degrees of originality. I'm just bolting choice parts on, other people are making their own parts. I'm just saying that a heavily customized bike is still basically a work of functional art so to me that is expressing a person's individuality. Their bike will be unique from most other bikes.
 
Thumbpicker said:
Well you can't be very individual if you are the same as everyone else and unoriginal.

My point is that everyone is basically unoriginal and not particularly individual.
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As I said, big difference between novel and sheep. Same as everyone else ? Everyone else doesn't have tattoos or play guitars or ride bikes or whatever. You can do that shit just because you like it. You don't have to be expressing anything. You guys must have an inflated sense of self importance if you think everything you do is designed to express something.
 
Floyd Eye said:
As I said, big difference between novel and sheep. Same as everyone else ? Everyone else doesn't have tattoos or play guitars or ride bikes or whatever. You can do that shit just because you like it. You don't have to be expressing anything. You guys must have an inflated sense of self importance if you think everything you do is designed to express something.
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Are you kidding? I just said the complete opposite. I just said everything I do is unoriginal and means nothing. However, I also said that about everyone else as well. Ultimately everything has been done before. Everything we do in this life is meaningless.

There'd be heaps of people that have tattoos, ride bikes and play guitars. Not original at all. Just another form of conforming to a different set of norms.

Write a new song... It might be a new song but it's not original in the sense that lots of people write a new song...

Improvise a solo. Heaps of people do that... Not original in that sense.

It's like bubbles on a pot of boiling water. The bubble rises, pops and goes back into the mixture. It's all the same.
 
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Floyd Eye said:
You guys must have an inflated sense of self importance if you think everything you do is designed to express something.
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I personally like to do stuff that is different from what others are doing. No one said everything I'm doing is designed to express something though. When I see somebody cruising down the road on a custom bike, the bike does say something about that person. Maybe it says "attention to detail" or "unique thinking" about a hand crafted part. Maybe it's a classic bobber or Frisco chopper which tells me "this guy likes old school". Or maybe it's an ugly ass bike that says "this guy has horrible taste" lol. That person is expressing their tastes and ideas through a creation of their own. Surprised you aren't making the connection but it's all good.
 
Thumbpicker said:
Are you kidding? I just said the complete opposite. I just said everything I do is unoriginal and means nothing. However, I also said that about everyone else as well. Ultimately everything has been done before. Everything we do in this life is meaningless.
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For a dude clearly trying to be philosophical you sure are missing the very simple point.

If you think everything you do is an act of expressing your individuality, as evidenced by getting a tattoo, modding a motorcycle, playing a guitar, that's a pretty heady assumption that people are looking or judging your individuality. So no, I'm not fucking kidding. Sometimes I paint my shit because I like it that color. I set my shotgun up with the optics and features I like. No it isn't original, clearly, I mean I bought the fucking shit from a gun vendor. It's not an expression of anything.
 
VonBonfire said:
I personally like to do stuff that is different from what others are doing. No one said everything I'm doing is designed to express something though. When I see somebody cruising down the road on a custom bike, the bike does say something about that person. Maybe it says "attention to detail" or "unique thinking" about a hand crafted part. Maybe it's a classic bobber or Frisco chopper which tells me "this guy likes old school". Or maybe it's an ugly ass bike that says "this guy has horrible taste" lol. That person is expressing their tastes and ideas through a creation of their own. Surprised you aren't making the connection but it's all good.
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I am making the connection. I am extremely observant of details and what they possibly mean. It doesn't mean that I think all those details are someone trying to express their individuality.
 
Floyd Eye said:
For a dude clearly trying to be philosophical you sure are missing the very simple point.

If you think everything you do is an act of expressing your individuality, as evidenced by getting a tattoo, modding a motorcycle, playing a guitar, that's a pretty heady assumption that people are looking or judging your individuality. So no, I'm not fucking kidding. Sometimes I paint my shit because I like it that color. I set my shotgun up with the optics and features I like. No it isn't original, clearly, I mean I bought the fucking shit from a gun vendor. It's not an expression of anything.
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You don't understand what I'm saying.

I think people try and express their individuality by doing those things but I'm saying that none of it is truly individual at all. Not for me... not for them... not for anyone.

Nor do I attempt to be individual.
 
Someone's taste in clothes or guns or bikes or houses, cars, tools whatever doesn't have to be an expression of anything.
 
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