Holiday Ampfest SAT Nov 28th Mike Fortin will be in Town!!

[FortinAmps]

What are you speakers of choice, cab dimensions of choice, mic positioning of choice, etc?

As much as I personally love my '76 G12M Blackbacks 4x12" straight Marshall cab, I've already long ago found out, that it isn't the right one for a DINO. I like my DINO very much with my '73 G12H 4x12" straight Marshall cab, but still more with a slant 4x12" front loaded Vintage 30 cab (Soldano cab) or with a straight 4x12" Bogner cab with G12H30 and Vintage 30 in an X-pattern.

I'm myself not THE studio and recording specialist and here I rather trust in the skills and experience of others, who do this job every day - and there almost always I've seen, that they're using a SM57, usually are checking the cab for the best sounding speaker among the four and this mic usually is placed straight to one speaker maybe 1 1/2 inches out of the center and the mic is nearly touching the grill cloth.

It obviously has a lot to do with how the amp was dialed in, but I didn't change microphone positioning for ANY of the clips until we switched sides of the room for the "Marshallesque" amps.

The tonestack/gain/channels were adjusted a lot during the playing of your amp to please the player, obviously. I was just behind the computer for this one.

I am posting clips below of all the amps at the Fortinfest. Larry, can you please point to a time stamp in the clip posted below where you believe your amp was "best represented" by the tone dialed in?

Ouch! I've listened to the clip several times now and nearly can't recognize my DINO amp
She's sounding like a tame sheep behind a blanked - as opposed to the lo-quality YouTube clip, psychodave has posted above.
But keep in mind, that at that time Jon still has used his '98 DINO, while his '05 and '06 DINOs (his words) are sounding miles better.
And Mike's DINO is built right after Jon's '06 DINO..... so what has happened to the sound
But where are the teeth in the high mids? And where is the tight but big punch in the lows? I can't hear it!

There are some short parts in the clip, where the real DINO voice a bit is twinkeling out of the speakers, just a tiny bit - it's:
1:00-1:16
2:17-2:22
3:32-4:08
6:04-6:10

but everywhere else, especially at:
2:36-2:48
5:44-5:50
6:33-end

it's even not a garage sound, it's IMO a garbage sound!
Far not the DINO sound, like it went off my hands, at least not as it comes out recorded

Larry

Hey Larry,
I am very sorry that you don't like the clips. I'm sure Greg will pull them down if you prefer. I think it sounds excellent as it's got that sparkle and cut that none of the other amps had.

Like I said in a previous post, I was dicking with the controls like crazy showing Dave the sweep of the them. I didn't even know it was being recording. I was playing host to bunch of people in the room making sure that everyone got face time with all the amps.

The next time we do another amp fest, we'll be sure to do clips through Dave's H30s cabs. Out of respect, it should be oked by you before being posted.
Cheers,
Mike

 

[FortinAmps]

Maybe Mike can chime in and express some clarifying words?
I've emailed him a few days ago, but he didn't reply yet. Maybe he's been too busy just before the Ampfest?

But I have to take some sleep now, already 8:00am here in Germany
See ya, hear ya tomorrow

Larry

Hey Larry,
Sorry about the late reply as I had no internet access in NY.
BTW, I was so happy to have an email from you when I opened my emails Sunday night. I hope that your amp fest in Nuremberg went well. Please post a link in this thread if you have one, I don't mind, it's all good my friend
Cheers,
Mike

 

[FortinAmps]

I don't think that the Dino is looking bad at all in those clips. Never played one myself, but this matches the character of other clips I've heard, and it doesn't help in any way cure my GAS for one.

Guess the people on this board can well appreciate the circumstances in which these have been recorded, it's by no means raising expectations of perfect studio quality Iced Earth crushing tones.

It's the way the web works, clips are not always of perfect quality, but if you ask me, the Dino sounds BADASS

Hey CJ,
+1 to that, I think the Dino sounded awesome in that clip but everyone hears this differently and that is totally ok. If you're looking for something that has a different character to your Steavens in the face peeling style, you should check out the Dino.
Both amazing in their own rights just with different things going on
Cheers,
Mike

 

[FortinAmps]

I don't think that the Dino is looking bad at all in those clips.

absolutley agree with you. IMO the Dino on this clip sounds more "open" with a wide frequency range,
while the Fortin Meathead sounds more compressed and less open.

It reminds me of my Soldano Preamp.

I don't say goood or bad - depends of the purpose / desire whats needed

just my 2 cents

Exactly, it's got way more sparkle in the tone compared to my amps and that is meant to be in a good way Different amps, different flavors, for different folks. It's all good man
Thanks for checking out the clips!
Cheers,
Mike

 

[FortinAmps]

Have had 5 hours sleep meanwhile and listened to the DINO clip again with fresh ears - and no!
This is simply annoyingly and strange for me to hear, what a DINO sound should be

I don't know what has happened! Was it the recording situation, the cab, the room? Or the amp itself?
That's far away from what a DINO is sounding like and I don't have an idea, what might have happened to the amp?
Has it been maybe 48+ hours on standby non-stop? So that all the tube's cathodes now are poisoned heavily and the tubes have lost 40% or 50% of their emission? Or what?

On the clip I can hear kind-a nasty static distortion sometimes on the top end, like recorded with a 'overblasted' Zoom H2, the lows are muffling nearly always, far not the strong tightness a DINO has! No Piero, no hunter! That's not what a DINO is sounding like in reality - it's only distressing!

Larry

Hey Larry,
Just say the word and Greg will pull down the clip. I don't want this to be a source of stress for you. We all had a great time at this amp fest and I don't want any of it to have any bad vibes.
Cheers,
Mike

 

[FortinAmps]

I agree with ralph, that room first off with it's dirty power, crap all over, neon bulbs, etc......is a nightmare to record in and Greg had just minutes to set up and geta sound going through cans while others were wailing

Nobody had a power conditionner or a ISP decimator or anything?

Hey Stef,
Yeah, we had that. When I lived in NY, I use to rehearse in that same exact room. I can tell you that it is very noisy. It's in an industrial park, I have no idea what else is generation the shit on the AC Oh well, it was still a lot of fun!
Cheers,
Mike

 

[FortinAmps]

i think the dino and hulk dominated from the soundclips...

Yes, the Hulk discloses an interesting sound!
Is this the rebuilt JCM800 with the "Grind & Girth" controls?
What might be ~pretty similar~ to the "Bite & Punch" controls of a DINO?

Can we simplify this to: "Great minds think alike"? Or...
... just thinking a bit louder as usual

Larry

Thanks for the kind words Larry
I have a lot of respect for you as a builder and I think you're one of the top amp manufacturers out there.

Just a simple application of technology and nothing for me to take credit for.
To be specific, the Hulk mod Girth and Grind are connect like Page 6 of the link below, Garnet Gnome G15T, but with different values. The controls located between V1 and V2.
http://www.el34world.com/charts/Schematics/Garnet.pdf

These types of "tone controls" are dicussed in the following as reference:
Merlin Blencowe’s “Designing Tube Preamps For Guitar and Bass” under the chapter of “Tone controls and Tone stacks” starting on page 229. TUT series books also goes over some cool simple shelving controls as well as RDH 4th edition, chapter 15 Tone Compensations and Tone Controls sub title continuously – variable controls – general. Also Gar’s great little book also discusses some great variable single treble and bass filters. http://www.garnetamps.com/book.htm

Cheers,
Mike

 

[FortinAmps]

I have a Hulk (the one I posted a pic of earlier in this thread that is a Rebuilt 1959 in orange levant) and the girth and grind controls are extremely useful. I can see how the Hulk would dominate...it is really a great amp. That being said I would kill to play a Dino.

Thanks Jason Hopefully in the near future we'll be able to do that.
Cheers,
Mike

 

[lolzgreg]

I want to thank everyone for coming out on a holiday weekend. It was awesome to see old friends and new faces. Big thanks to Greg for dragging out his Mills cab (scratch free I hope ) and his recording gear as well as to Carl and Dave for the audio and video as well

No problem, Mike. Thanks for bringing the best amp arsenal in existance with you

As I mentioned, next time I will hopefully get to bring my better recording rig and reamp through every amp there, two different styles of music, clean AND distorted, AND have time to tweak. I can't wait 'till I have the funds for a Meathead. Definitely the best amp I've ever played

 

[FortinAmps]

I have a Hulk (the one I posted a pic of earlier in this thread that is a Rebuilt 1959 in orange levant) and the girth and grind controls are extremely useful.

Ah-ha As well as the Bite & Punch controls are in the DINO amps.
Seems, that the drop curtain is lifting slowly more and more

Thanks for the info!

Larry

It's the same mod as the other modded Marshall in the amp fest clip. Can you explain the curtain, I'm Canadian and I don't get the point
Cheers,
Mike

 

[killertone]

I have a Hulk (the one I posted a pic of earlier in this thread that is a Rebuilt 1959 in orange levant) and the girth and grind controls are extremely useful. I can see how the Hulk would dominate...it is really a great amp. That being said I would kill to play a Dino.

Thanks Jason Hopefully in the near future we'll be able to do that.
Cheers,
Mike

Right on, Mike. Gald to hear you survived the 10.5 hour drive, that is a long one even by Texas standards!

I have had a lot of time with the amp and I tell you what, this thing kills. It took me a little while to find my sweet spot but I have found it and then some. I am 99% there and can not wait to get it with the band this week. I will have some killer clips ready for you to check out and I think you will be proud.

 

[FortinAmps]

Meanwhile I've listened to all the clips several times again & again.
And the funny thing is, if the clips wouldn't be titled, like a guesswork, then I'd choosen the Hulk Mod as for my DINO amp.
This clip at least is sounding closest to that, what's a DINO sounding like in reality - like one of the DINO's five voices.
Not spot-on, but damn close.

And I assume, that with the Hulk mod not the Mills cab was used, but a Marshall cab?
Moreover I'm sure, that it's 'not only' the Grind & Girth controls, what makes this amp sound like it sounds
Who can clarify? Mike! Can you give us some insight?

Larry

Thank you so much for the kind words Larry
To have you think that the Hulk mod sounds good enough to mistake it for one of your creations is just one of the highest compliments I've received in a long time. Like I've said before, I hold you as well as other builders like Fryette, Steavens, and Andy Marshall in such high regards that getting a positive feedback like this is greatly appreciated

In a previous post, I already went over the Girth and Grind controls. The preamp circuit is a 4 gain stage design based on a previous Meathead channel 5 and 6 circuit revision. It's an '83 JCM800 2203 that already sounded excellent before I touched it then add Dave's magic H30 loaded Marshall cabs, I think that is what gave it is tone on the recording. You could plug a Gorilla amp through Dave's speakers and it would sound good
Cheers,
Mike

 

[FortinAmps]

I don't need to re-read your posts Larry in order to know what you were implying and it's clear that you don't want to be upfront about what you wrote in this thread. I'll let people judge for themselves because everything they need to form an opinion is here in plain simple text for them to see and I don't need to go into this any further because everyone here can think for themself.

But you did it already again. So hopefully this is the last time, I have to respond to this theme. Any further rant we can clarify by PM, if you like to make your lawyer-like behavior to a hobby.

What I've said was just my impression! My impression about my amp's sound on this clip, my impression about another amp's sound, and my impression about the labelling of some control knobs. I haven't agitated against people, haven't offended or badmouthed about anyone. All my saying has been factually and in no way emotional

And just for the record...After doing a bit of research on you Larry, I don't need for you to lie to my face about what you are really trying to say. There are plenty of German based websites that I could link everyone to that has you talking about this subject in your native language .....without all the fancy underlying smilies lol

I don't have any prob with this. Just do it! You even can run it through a translation program before and paste it in here - if anyone is interested on this at all. Or still better send it as a PM to anyone, who's interested, to keep the topic clean. You can send me the translation before, then I'd check it for a correct translation. Or ask Olaf or Piero for doing this. Just how you like it.

I told you I call it as I see it. You opened up this can of worms and Feel free to continue to backpedal.

My view on this is quite different! I've posted my impressions, but you've made a can of worms of it. Hopefully you haven't to eat all the worms anywhen later

Larry

Guys, Guys, Come on.....Can't we just get along. This was a really great experience doing the amp fest. Larry, if you the clip pulled, no problem and I completely understand your position.

Cheers,
Mike

 

[novosibir]

Woo-hoo

The amp's front looks nearly like the front of one of my 'Archetype' reference amps, the upper one with the head case of the middle one:

The upper one was a '69 Super Bass
The middle one is a '71 Super Lead (a rarity with Drake irons instead of Dagnall)
The bottom one is a '73 Super Bass

The girl btw. is not my girl friend - it's my stepdaughter (who I've trained to press the eyelets into my boards).

Hey Larry,
Those are some sweet looking amp!

Thanks! And yes, those amps are cult meanwhile, despite the noise they sometimes do have.
But to avoid a possible misunderstanding of my post and to not leave a wrong impression - these 3 amps were and still are my Archetype reference amps, which I've also used to match and compare my new custom wound OT's for the British Purist and the Rock Wizard during this spring - but they aren't my properties. They belong to the guy, who's busy with importing and distributing musical equipment from China, about what I've already informed you a while ago. But he only needs two of this 3 amps about six times a year (the 2 black ones), when he's playing guitar at some biker festivals - all the other time I can have it around as long as I want.

Only concerning the red '71 Super Lead we are in negotiation about a deal with a British Purist and some compensatory payment, because this one is sounding somewhat special, sweet and rich with its Drake irons instead of Dagnall in it, what I personally like very much.

Your stepdaughter is also very beautiful

Haha - thanks for the compliment - for she I sometimes have to banish some young and insistent guys off the house's door or away from behind the terrasse like a knight

Did you bring those to your amp fest this past weekend? You'll have to shoot me a link if there is any pics and or clips of that

We've pushed the amp fest to Saturday, Dec. 12-th now, because I feared, that my new Rock Wizard won't be finished and fine tweaked betimes and I didn't get back a slightly special built JTM45 clone back from the editorial office of Gitarre&Bass, where it went after finishing for a review.

This one: http://www.historiclespauls.com/forum/v ... f=3&t=1764

It's in German, but I think, that just the photos are telling the whole story.

Maybe I take the red Super Lead to the Ampfest, but first have to check, whether it's enough place in my Bavarian car – because by any means I take my British Purist and the Rock Wizard there, my '76 Marshall cab, the JTM45 and a '68 Plexi Super Bass.

If we get some acceptable recording together at the Ampfest, then I'll link it here. We've already had an Ampfest in August, where I've tried to record the amp sounds with a Zoom H2, what I quickly have buyed at the same day, but.....

Larry

 

[novosibir]

Don't sweat Greg's comment. The amp sounded amazing! I just went to listen to the audio in the clips section. I think is sounds stellar It was Dave playing through it while I was showing him all the adjuments on the amp.

The amp has the original tubes in it and nothing was done to it except for the parts that you sent to me to change the British channel to bring it up to the signature JS Dino with the British heavy crunch and British Hot Rod 1. The clip was done on the Scream channel btw.

If so, then obviously the clip was recorded under kind-a worst case scenario? An improper cab for the amp's character, mic position not re-adjusted for the amp or moved off by accident, horrible electricity and neon strayfields in the room, aso. Shit happens

Hey Larry,
I am very sorry that you don't like the clips. I'm sure Greg will pull them down if you prefer. I think it sounds excellent as it's got that sparkle and cut that none of the other amps had.

Like I said in a previous post, I was dicking with the controls like crazy showing Dave the sweep of the them. I didn't even know it was being recording. I was playing host to bunch of people in the room making sure that everyone got face time with all the amps.

What might explain, that a few times for each a few seconds I could hear the DINO's sound going into the right direction, though never met it.

The next time we do another amp fest, we'll be sure to do clips through Dave's H30s cabs. Out of respect, it should be oked by you before being posted.

Good broken in G12H30's, Vintage 30's or a X-pattern of these is, what the DINO likes best. Each combination with its distinctice, but always dino-like character.

Sorry about the late reply as I had no internet access in NY.

No prob! It also took a week or more sometimes in the past, until I've replied to your emails - depending on how busy I've been at that moment. And in the case of no internet access more than understandable

Hey Larry,
Just say the word and Greg will pull down the clip. I don't want this to be a source of stress for you.

I'll think about it, but for what still the hassle, the child already fell into the water

Larry

 

[novosibir]

i think the dino and hulk dominated from the soundclips...

Yes, the Hulk discloses an interesting sound!
Is this the rebuilt JCM800 with the "Grind & Girth" controls?
What might be ~pretty similar~ to the "Bite & Punch" controls of a DINO?

Can we simplify this to: "Great minds think alike"? Or...
... just thinking a bit louder as usual

Thanks for the kind words Larry
I have a lot of respect for you as a builder and I think you're one of the top amp manufacturers out there.

Just a simple application of technology and nothing for me to take credit for.
To be specific, the Hulk mod Girth and Grind are connect like Page 6 of the link below, Garnet Gnome G15T, but with different values. The controls located between V1 and V2.
http://www.el34world.com/charts/Schematics/Garnet.pdf

That's a simple T-type tone control with fixed mids, just drawn a bit different here than usual.
This circuit is way different to the Bite & Punch circuit in the DINO, what actually are two different filter types for British HotRod and Scream.

If you've really realized a dino-like grind and tightness in the Hulk mod's sound appearance with the Garnet type filter, then my respectful compliment!

But first raise up your right hand, put your left hand on top of the bible and...

Meanwhile I've listened to all the clips several times again & again.
And the funny thing is, if the clips wouldn't be titled, like a guesswork, then I'd choosen the Hulk Mod as for my DINO amp.
This clip at least is sounding closest to that, what's a DINO sounding like in reality - like one of the DINO's five voices.
Not spot-on, but damn close.

And I assume, that with the Hulk mod not the Mills cab was used, but a Marshall cab?
Moreover I'm sure, that it's 'not only' the Grind & Girth controls, what makes this amp sound like it sounds
Who can clarify? Mike! Can you give us some insight?

Thank you so much for the kind words Larry
To have you think that the Hulk mod sounds good enough to mistake it for one of your creations is just one of the highest compliments I've received in a long time. Like I've said before, I hold you as well as other builders like Fryette, Steavens, and Andy Marshall in such high regards that getting a positive feedback like this is greatly appreciated

As I've already said above, if you really got this result with the Garnet style pre-filter, then I give you my compliments with pleasure! But as I've also already said - first the bible - or shoot me a HiQ guts shot

But you've mentioned Andy Marshall, what gave me the catchword and reminded me to situations at Musikmesse Frankfurt in 1998, where I've been with my DINO. There a few times every day Andy Marshall came along with a guitar in his hand, settled down and played always for about 10-15 minutes through the DINO, he liked its sound very much and always said things like i.e.: "Unbelievable, that a razor blade looking amp has such a tone, such a warmth!" Though he almost always has used the California channel in SRV-Texas mode or the British channel in crunch mode. These were highest compliments for me at that time

In a previous post, I already went over the Girth and Grind controls. The preamp circuit is a 4 gain stage design based on a previous Meathead channel 5 and 6 circuit revision. It's an '83 JCM800 2203 that already sounded excellent before I touched it then add Dave's magic H30 loaded Marshall cabs, I think that is what gave it is tone on the recording. You could plug a Gorilla amp through Dave's speakers and it would sound good

The cab is adding its part to the overall sound of course, but the honor mostly belongs to the amp IMO

Larry

 

[lolzgreg]

Good broken in G12H30's, Vintage 30's or a X-pattern of these is, what the DINO likes best. Each combination with its distinctice, but always dino-like character.

The Dino was recorded through V30s. The mic position was the same for ALL OF THE AMPS. I had a super bright LED flashlight on hand and I was pretty damn careful with my positioning.

It was also recorded into a Mills Acoustics 4x12, what all the people who own it call "one of, if not the best, and most organic sounding 4x12 cabinets on earth."

Larry, I am a 21 year old guitar amp maniac. There is no other way to put it.

Every tube amp I own has been tweaked to perfection: They all have the best-running available tubes at the time of purchase. They have all been modded and maintained by the most proficient and talented audio gear technician in maybe the entire United States.

My Mesa Boogie 4x12 Recto Cabinet was owned as a studio-only cabinet by Rammstein. They had the pick of the crop when picking up their box.
My Mills Acoustics 4x12, I think it spoke for itself at the amp fest.
My Avatar Contemporary 4x12 sounds a lot better than the Orange cabinet its modeled after, let's leave it at that.

As I said Larry, I don't know what it was, but I'd love an opportunity to have one of your amps in my small studio and give it a whirl. If you would like to hear some of my previous work, get in touch via PM. No harm was meant by posting the clips, but I know everyone wanted to hear what the amp sounds like. If these don't represent it, I would love to figure out what does.

I really don't want this topic discussed anymore. I realize this is not my thread, but it's not yours either. You want to make a thread with Larry clips, please do. Also, when you're done recording them, I'll pay shipping one way to give them a run here. I'm very curious myself what goes on with the Dino that I've missed.

Again, in closing, you can take my words as a grain of salt, but I think at twenty one years, being able to jive with the older gentlemen at FortinFest speaks for itself in the way that I am a mature and relatively knowledgable young adult.

 

[DiezelMonster]

Greg

I think your recordings are some of the best I've heard come through here, I freaked when I heard the Meathead clip, it's perfect! it really is! sounds so damn good! I played it non stop today for a but and just gets better!

If you take your clip down because of Larry, I'll be pissed off, if he can't get over how his amp sounds then he needs to grow up. Otherwise I'll move on from this place if this is the kind of bullshit that goes on here.

The Hulk amp was mine, and I'll get it back eventually, and as I said to Mike if he made my amp sound like the Dino, then I don't want it! hahaha

The Hulk is an amazing amp and I'm glad I had the chance to own it, but considering what I will own in a month or two, I'll be happy for the rest of my life, especially since it was built by the nicest, most humble amp dude I've ever met not some egocentric person looking for the spotlight.

seems the curtain really is being lifted, but not on Mike.....


C

 

[jcj]

Ummmmm....

All I can say, is that Mike seems to be a first class gentleman, very adept at turning the other cheek.

 

[lolzgreg]

Greg

I think your recordings are some of the best I've heard come through here, I freaked when I heard the Meathead clip, it's perfect! it really is! sounds so damn good! I played it non stop today for a but and just gets better!

If you take your clip down because of Larry, I'll be pissed off, if he can't get over how his amp sounds then he needs to grow up. Otherwise I'll move on from this place if this is the kind of bullshit that goes on here.

The Hulk amp was mine, and I'll get it back eventually, and as I said to Mike if he made my amp sound like the Dino, then I don't want it! hahaha

The Hulk is an amazing amp and I'm glad I had the chance to own it, but considering what I will own in a month or two, I'll be happy for the rest of my life, especially since it was built by the nicest, most humble amp dude I've ever met not some egocentric person looking for the spotlight.

seems the curtain really is being lifted, but not on Mike.....


C

Thanks for the kind words, dude

I will also be the proud owner of a Meathead within the next year if all goes well financially. It really sounds like the perfect amp for me. The reamps were magical the first time, which means I NEEED that amp

Mike, do you offer payment plans? Perhaps free clips for life?