How can anyone seriously defend Cameron at this point?

[daver101]

Every single time I see a post that does anything but condemn Cameron's business practices I am motivated to repeat myself with a post that condemns their business practices. It's probably not useful in any way. Nor is it harmful in any way. It's mostly a waste of time on all parts.

OK, pure definition of troll. I can live with that and move on with my life.

 

[thegame]

Simple question :

Cameron says one guy's amp will be shipping on Jan. 28. Turns out later that the amp is not even built yet. Thats two lies in one ! How is this not complete and utter fraud ?

I fucking hate liars

 

[J.B.]

Mark and Chris made one mistake and one mistake only with this whole situation. They accepted deposits and anounced a ship date. I think in hind site, they should have taken the Randall Aiken approach and not accepted any deposits, and told eveybody they are working on production amps and will be released when they are completed. Then, have 20 or so amps ready to ship at that time. First come, first serve. Then, rinse and repeat as needed.

I wish Mark all the best. We've become good friends over the past couple years. We usually talk about more personal stuff than amps. His biggest problem is that he's too nice of a guy and can't say no to anybody. So, then he gets behind on work because he's overloaded. I don't agree with eveything that has happened. Yes, I did pull my order, and I did talk to Mark about it before hand. He told me he completely understood and that he hoped it didn't affect our friendship...and it hasn't. I'll contunue to support him. Hell, I just got a HG Jose in today (which absolutely KILLS by the way ). I just wasn't willing to wait any longer. Plain and simple.... my choice. But not for a second did I think I wouldn't get an amp, I just didn't know when i'd be getting it.

Like I said, I don't agree with everything that has occured. I can accept growing pains, vendor problems, man power problems, etc, etc. But if somebody has a question that you don't know the answer to, say, "I don't know". Don't say something that will come back to bite you in the ass, in turn, piss people off. And then there's the flat out lies from Chris. But i'm not even going to go there.

 

[defpearlpilot]

Well, I don't see any generalizations but I do see accusations. I have heard one of Danhops' Cameron type amps. I don't know if it was a mod or a production model. But it did sound badass. Would I buy one based on the tone? Hell yes. Would I buy one based on what I've read? Hell no. This whole situation reminds me very much of the Mako fiasco a couple of years back. It seems like Mako got their act together. Hopefully Mark will get his act together cause his amps shit all over Mako's.

 

[ranalli]

Been browsing here and HC lately and I honestly thought these Cameron threads were just someone bumping up old threads/issues. Then I realized they were a completely new set of issues.


I too have no horse in this race and the people that would advise me to keep my mouth shut....well just ignore my post. I know there are a number of people here...good people who are friends/friendly with Mark. However, this is deplorable on all fronts really. And again, I mean no disrespect to anyone who is friends with the parties involved....there's a lot of hardworking good folks here and it's no fun seeing them get burned.


Although I have no idea what is going on behind the scenes what makes this situation the most worrisome is the lack of communication and the break-down of communication. Even if this business is quite far behind....even a year behind there should be some communication being made to the customers of incremental progress. This doesn't necessarily mean time wasted with phone calls and timely posts etc. This could be something as simple as posting to this very forum a picture of every new amp he's made. I'd be willing to bet that a countdown from 1000 amps pending to 0 amps would be a lot more fulfilling and assuring to those waiting. The fact that no communication has been made is despicable by all means. Didn't Mark hire someone to do exactly that? How hard is that? Anyone who has ever done ANY kind of work...self employed or otherwise knows that sh*t happens....it always does. But what separates the adults from the kiddies is the communication and awareness of responsibility that goes along with it.


This guy has the amp equivalent of a Cabbage Patch Kid and still the business model doesn't work? Something is wrong...very wrong here. There's a number of different solutions to make things work.....not producing amps while leaving people in the dark is not one of them.


Okay...lunch is over now

 

[Glimpse]

But what separates the adults from the kiddies is the communication and awareness of responsibility that goes along with it.

+1

That's all I have to add to this situation (as everything else has been said heh).

 

[Telephant]

I don't think Odin is defending me. I don't have any money tied up, and no stake in anyone's company. Hell, I'm actually taking notes on all his tips on how to run an effective company. May help me in my career as a Plant Manager someday...

My bad I thought you were one of the guys that had money down. You do own some Cameron Marshalls though dont you? Maybe thats why I had you confused.

 

[daver101]

I don't think Odin is defending me. I don't have any money tied up, and no stake in anyone's company. Hell, I'm actually taking notes on all his tips on how to run an effective company. May help me in my career as a Plant Manager someday...

My bad I thought you were one of the guys that had money down. You do own some Cameron Marshalls though dont you? Maybe thats why I had you confused.

I'm selling my last one today.....

 

[J.B.]

I don't think Odin is defending me. I don't have any money tied up, and no stake in anyone's company. Hell, I'm actually taking notes on all his tips on how to run an effective company. May help me in my career as a Plant Manager someday...

My bad I thought you were one of the guys that had money down. You do own some Cameron Marshalls though dont you? Maybe thats why I had you confused.

I'm selling my last one today.....

Got a buyer yet? I have a bunch of people I'm keeping an eye out for.

 

[daver101]

Got a buyer yet? I have a bunch of people I'm keeping an eye out for.

Yeah, I do. I just waiting on the check to show up.

 

[Digital Jams]

Got a buyer yet? I have a bunch of people I'm keeping an eye out for.

Yeah, I do. I just waiting on the check to show up.

You should have gotten it by now!!

 

[Odin]

Mark and Chris made one mistake and one mistake only with this whole situation. They accepted deposits and anounced a ship date.

Uhhh....that's 2 mistakes.

I wish Mark all the best. We've become good friends over the past couple years. We usually talk about more personal stuff than amps. His biggest problem is that he's too nice of a guy and can't say no to anybody.

Apparently he can so "no" to people who send him money.

 

[daver101]

Got a buyer yet? I have a bunch of people I'm keeping an eye out for.

Yeah, I do. I just waiting on the check to show up.

You should have gotten it by now!!

It's cool. We talked on the phone. He had to sell some gear first to get the money!

 

[Odin]

First, I never made any accusations or generalizations about Cameron, so save that criticism for someone else.

To the people who keep saying "if you don't have money on the line you shouldn't be talking about it" I will tell you this. I don't have money on the line so I feel free to call Cameron's bullshit.

You have no idea how many people have PM'd me and/or emailed me ranting about the money they sent Cameron for mod work or for new amps and they can't even get a response, just broken promises, lies or silence.

Some of these people have indicated to me that they would be ranting about this situation except they fear that Mark and Chris are going to hold it against them if they speak out against Cameron. They feel like their only chance of ever seeing their amp or money is to sit quietly and wait and not say anything negative about Cameron. They are effectively being held hostage by Cameron, permitting the fan club to rally for Cameron and keeping the disgruntled "customers" silenced (and I use the term "customer" loosely since a customer is supposed to receive something for his money).

So you have a company that actively solicits deposits and pre-payments in advance for work and products that have never shipped, customer amps are being held hostage indefinitely, and deposits and pre-payments are not being fulfilled with new amps per the originally stated ship dates. These customers fear speaking out will lose them everything so they wait and hope. Meanwhile the company make no good faith attempt at communicating with the paying customers or the general public, all of whom are left to speculate because the company refuses to clarify things.

Anyone who thinks that this is the way to run a business is delusional.

 

[Digital Jams]

Got a buyer yet? I have a bunch of people I'm keeping an eye out for.

Yeah, I do. I just waiting on the check to show up.

You should have gotten it by now!!

It's cool. We talked on the phone. He had to sell some gear first to get the money!

I was making a joke that I bought it!!!!

I dont want to piss anyone off I am trying to undercut them!!

 

[Telephant]

Anyone who thinks that this is the way to run a business is delusional.

You really think anyone here believes that? You really are Captain Obvious.

 

[Gainfreak]

First, I never made any accusations or generalizations about Cameron, so save that criticism for someone else.

Ummmm Yes you did Odin. telling people that the Cameron Crew used customers money for the NAMM booth was based on what fact ? The whole statement is false. You need me to go on?

 

[Anonymous]

a legit example of how MARK really is. 15 posts later no one acknowledges not a fuckn thing. you guys are unfucking beliveable cant wait to hear the feedback GOOOOOOOO
is that guy mitch shaft involved in this business

Most of you guys know that I have been friends with Mark for probably 12-13 years now. I will normally defend Mark because I genuinely like the guy. I also like Ralph, Scott and Kage but NONE OF US have shelled out a penny to get in line for a Cameron amp. Any of us can make the LAME excuse that we just don't have the funds for it right now and that might be true if we are talking about what's in our pocket today. But ALL of us could have a 50% deposit on a CCV one week from now if we sold some gear we don't ever even use. Yet none of us are doing that and it is obvious there is a reason for it.

We all say " I will have a Cameron some day". We are all WAITING to see what's going to happen though. Our unblinking defense of Mark in every situation may be all it takes to convince someone else to plunk down their money. Yet, NONE of us have done the same and the reason isn't that we are broke. None of us are that broke that we won't come up with the money for the ultimate amp in the 9 months since they announced they were going into business.

I hope Mark does very well with this business. But, there is no excuse that while these Cameron Amplification amps are being delayed, that the rest of the mods get shipped out. There is no reason that since these amps are being delayed that while they are straightening production out, the first 5 guys (or the first 10 or 20 or 30 or however long it takes) would get hand-wired, limited edition Cameron amplifiers for the original price they were quoted. You create huge goodwill that way and you create an instant collectible.

I know everyone is getting bent at guys who have no deposit down on the amps criticizing the company. I think maybe that the rest of us with no money down should also back away from staunchly defending Cameron Amplification until there is a Cameron Amplification with a product.

Again, I wish the best of luck to Mark and Chris. They are both great guys. But since production amps are not going out the door, the mods should be, then the first few handwired Camerons should be.

And what Pat said earlier is interesting, an Egnater "Cameron" model. That might have been a great move. Egnater or Splawn or Krank or WHOEVER building a Cameron model amp designed 100% by Mark and built 100% by someone with manufacturing capability today.

Funny, we gave him a SL module 2 years ago and told him to play around with it and get back with us...never has....

 

[Odin]

First, I never made any accusations or generalizations about Cameron, so save that criticism for someone else.

Ummmm Yes you did Odin. telling people that the Cameron Crew used customers money for the NAMM booth was based on what fact ? The whole statement is false. You need me to go on?

I never said that Cameron used customer's money for the NAMM booth. I did speculate that it may have happened (not the same thing as making a statement that it has in fact happened), since Cameron took plenty of people's money before NAMM and had a booth at NAMM. Since Cameron has been taking money for mods, deposits on new amps, and prepaid orders for new amps before NAMM, yet delivering little to none of the mods or amps, and lacking a clear statement from Cameron what they have done with people's money and amps, it is not unreasonable for anyone to speculate that the money may be being used for operating expenses of the company, NAMM booth included.

Please, go on...

 

[J.B.]

Got a buyer yet? I have a bunch of people I'm keeping an eye out for.

Yeah, I do. I just waiting on the check to show up.

OK, cool..