How can anyone seriously defend Cameron at this point?

[Odin]

I also want to add that when I spoke to Mark while at Zep's house concerning some work on my old Aiken he stated that he would not touch that amp without Randall's ok first.

That line right there is all I need to define his character regardless of his mistakes which I am sure he is addressing with Chris.

He won't work on an amp without talking to the amp's original designer, but he will take thousands of dollars from various people and then refuse to ship product or respond to communication...and to you that's a definition of good character? You have a seriously screwed up sense of character.

Right is right, wrong is wrong, excuses are bullshit. I have zero tolerance for bullshitting excuse makers.

comprehend better what I wrote, I stated besides the mistakes made MY opinion of his character is mine only. I feel bad for the people that have waited for the amp and hope that everything works out for them. My opinion is just that......mine.

BTW that Ford you bought?? Ford has a history of recalls for safety reasons and you still bought one....why? I have a Mustang btw so no not bashing Ford

All cars that I'm aware of have a history of recalls, regardless of price. It's unavoidable. However, there are Ford dealerships on every corner in Dallas and I can get hassle free warranty service within 24 hours if needed, so I tend not to worry about it. I wouldn't buy a Ford as a daily driver if I couldn't get service or fix it myself (and on new cars fixing it yourself is getting harder to do).

 

[thiswaythatway]

I also want to add that when I spoke to Mark while at Zep's house concerning some work on my old Aiken he stated that he would not touch that amp without Randall's ok first.

That line right there is all I need to define his character regardless of his mistakes which I am sure he is addressing with Chris.

He won't work on an amp without talking to the amp's original designer, but he will take thousands of dollars from various people and then refuse to ship product or respond to communication...and to you that's a definition of good character? You have a seriously screwed up sense of character.

Right is right, wrong is wrong, excuses are bullshit. I have zero tolerance for bullshitting excuse makers.

Does mark have one of your amps? Did you send him money and not recieved an amp yet? You sound more aggravated then the guys who are waiting for an amp. If you didn't give Mark any money just shut up already. If you have SO much to say why didn't you get the balls to go to NAMM and tell all this bullshit to their faces if it bothers you soo much. All your ranting here is accomplishing NOTHING.

 

[Odin]

Money was taken. Amps were promised. Amps were not delivered. Meaningful communication has been non-existant. Those are the facts. What's going on behind the scenes is irrelevant to those who paid their money and want their amps, they just want their amps.

And keeping someone's amp for years is inexcusable no matter what.

Personal responsibility is the key, and it's lacking in this case.

What you now said is true and no one is arguing that fact but they are working on correcting the issues Odin. With that said, the only issues that I have corrected you on are the ones where you made sweeping generalizations.
Just for the record, I find you talking about peoples Character hysterical!!. Id be willing to bet that if we did a poll on how people peceive your character you might not like what the results show.

I don't live by Internet polls, I live by my word. You find one person in the world that I have ever given my word to and that person will tell you that I kept my word and met the terms of my promises. Period, end of story.

I'm simply stating observations based on numerous first hand accounts dealing with Cameron. If talking about what is happening with Cameron makes Cameron look bad then maybe Cameron should adjust something on their end.

How many people can give Cameron a great customer service review based on the purchase of a Cameron amplifier or repair/mod work performed on their amp by Cameron in the past year? How many people can give Cameron a poor customer service review based on the same criteria? The numbers don't lie.

People like Cameron's work (when they can get it done) and they like Cameron's product (from what they've seen and heard). The fact that Cameron does good work and has made good amps is not in question, that seems to be universally accepted. I'd like a CCV-100 myself based on what I've seen and heard.

But none of that is relevant. The only relevant factor here is that Cameron has taken much money and delivered little, if any, product, and has ceased meaningful communication with customers and potential customers alike.

Regardless of how great a guy Mark Cameron is or how great of an amp be builds, there is NO excuse for the total lack of respect for his customers. Showing a complete lack of respect for your customers is not good business, regardless of the excuses you make for doing it.

 

[Meathead]

I shouldn't have said what I said about it maybe being drugs or alcohol related, I retract that ...but I still wouldn't give a dime to this mess...no matter how bad I wanted a Cameron amp.

 

[Gainfreak]

Money was taken. Amps were promised. Amps were not delivered. Meaningful communication has been non-existant. Those are the facts. What's going on behind the scenes is irrelevant to those who paid their money and want their amps, they just want their amps.

And keeping someone's amp for years is inexcusable no matter what.

Personal responsibility is the key, and it's lacking in this case.

What you now said is true and no one is arguing that fact but they are working on correcting the issues Odin. With that said, the only issues that I have corrected you on are the ones where you made sweeping generalizations.
Just for the record, I find you talking about peoples Character hysterical!!. Id be willing to bet that if we did a poll on how people peceive your character you might not like what the results show.

I don't live by Internet polls, I live by my word. You find one person in the world that I have ever given my word to and that person will tell you that I kept my word and met the terms of my promises. Period, end of story.

I'm simply stating observations based on numerous first hand accounts dealing with Cameron. If talking about what is happening with Cameron makes Cameron look bad then maybe Cameron should adjust something on their end.

How many people can give Cameron a great customer service review based on the purchase of a Cameron amplifier or repair/mod work performed on their amp by Cameron in the past year? How many people can give Cameron a poor customer service review based on the same criteria? The numbers don't lie.

People like Cameron's work (when they can get it done) and they like Cameron's product (from what they've seen and heard). The fact that Cameron does good work and has made good amps is not in question, that seems to be universally accepted. I'd like a CCV-100 myself based on what I've seen and heard.

But none of that is relevant. The only relevant factor here is that Cameron has taken much money and delivered little, if any, product, and has ceased meaningful communication with customers and potential customers alike.

Regardless of how great a guy Mark Cameron is or how great of an amp be builds, there is NO excuse for the total lack of respect for his customers. Showing a complete lack of respect for your customers is not good business, regardless of the excuses you make for doing it.

Ok We get it. You like to repeat yourself over and over again and it seems that I'm headed in the same direction if I continue to post here. Odin, go ahead and continue on your crusade. Im done. Ive stated the facts that I know to be true and I cannot add anymore to this thread lol!

 

[Odin]

I also want to add that when I spoke to Mark while at Zep's house concerning some work on my old Aiken he stated that he would not touch that amp without Randall's ok first.

That line right there is all I need to define his character regardless of his mistakes which I am sure he is addressing with Chris.

He won't work on an amp without talking to the amp's original designer, but he will take thousands of dollars from various people and then refuse to ship product or respond to communication...and to you that's a definition of good character? You have a seriously screwed up sense of character.

Right is right, wrong is wrong, excuses are bullshit. I have zero tolerance for bullshitting excuse makers.

Does mark have one of your amps? Did you send him money and not recieved an amp yet? You sound more aggravated then the guys who are waiting for an amp. If you didn't give Mark any money just shut up already. If you have SO much to say why didn't you get the balls to go to NAMM and tell all this bullshit to their faces if it bothers you soo much. All your ranting here is accomplishing NOTHING.

Mark does not, and will not ever, have one of my amps. I have not, and will not ever, send Mark any of my money.

I don't like to see scam artists or lousy businesspeople taking advantage of people, and when I see that happening I may voice my opinion on it.

Why would I pay to fly out to NAMM to tell someone something that they already know?

A majority of all threads on this forum accomplish nothing, yet you aren't ranting abou them. If you don't like my opinion I'll give you a full refund of what you paid for it. Don't read posts that bother you. No likee, no clikee, works every time. Try it.

 

[Odin]

Ok We get it. You like to repeat yourself over and over again and it seems that I'm headed in the same direction if I continue to post here. Odin, go ahead and continue on your crusade. Im done. Ive stated the facts that I know to be true and I cannot add anymore to this thread lol!

Every single time I see a post that does anything but condemn Cameron's business practices I am motivated to repeat myself with a post that condemns their business practices. It's probably not useful in any way. Nor is it harmful in any way. It's mostly a waste of time on all parts.

 

[mentoneman]

is there any legitimate reason mark's amps aren't being completed as of yet?

this is pretty sad to see because mark really is a super nice and cool guy when you hang with him, and his hi gain tones are in a different league.

i'd love to see mark collaborate with bruce egnater on a cameron hi gain module.

 

[Gainzilla]

What you now said is true and no one is arguing that fact but they are working on correcting the issues Odin. With that said, the only issues that I have corrected you on are the ones where you made sweeping generalizations.


Just for the record, I find you talking about peoples Character hysterical!!. Id be willing to bet that if we did a poll on how people peceive your character you might not like what the results show.

My thoughts are in line with Ralphie and H but I cant blame people who actually have $$$$ with Mark and Chris for being steamed and for the life of me, Im really surprised at the lack of communication, something that goes a LONG ass way to keeping people happy. Im at a loss and Im not and have never offered excuses for these guys, I can only go on what I know from my interaction with them.

IMO, Knowing Mark and Chris the way that I do, I truly believe that they will get things sorted out and make Cameron the Company that its supposed to and destined to be. I wish them luck and Godspeed with that because the last thing anyone needs are threads like this...

As for you Odin, youre a Jackass; always have been and always will be. Youve never had an Iron in this fire and all you do is stir shit, as Daver said, Youre beating a dead horse and assuming the mantle of captain obvious, good on ya!!! Please illustrate how Sweeping generalizations and assumptions serve the greater good while youre at it...


Kage

 

[Odin]

Cameron can make all of these threads go away forever...the ball is in their court.

 

[evhfan]

mark needs to make things right by sending out the mods first and then the amps. otherwise we're never going to see the mods

 

[degenaro]

Not that I know anything about the amp business...but it's really simple. Shit happens, delays happen, unhappy customers happen. The guys that don't take money up front usually have not much of a back lash about it, the ones that do...well, see this thread.
But IT WILL ALWAYS HAPPEN. Especially for small builder's with limited capital. Seldom is there ever any bad intent involved, things just pile up, and then as human nature has it...it's easier to not deal with the headache. I've seen these kinda of growing pains from count less builders. Doesn't mean folks don't get thei stuyff, doesn't mean those folks shouldn't be pissed. But it is simply the way it is.

As for my earlier "assume much" comment. It's the drug problem references I think are hilarious. This is not corporate America where if you have any issue you have a meeting.

 

[tweed]

Money was taken. Amps were promised. Amps were not delivered. Meaningful communication has been non-existant. Those are the facts. What's going on behind the scenes is irrelevant to those who paid their money and want their amps, they just want their amps.

And keeping someone's amp for years is inexcusable no matter what.

Personal responsibility is the key, and it's lacking in this case.

What you now said is true and no one is arguing that fact but they are working on correcting the issues Odin. With that said, the only issues that I have corrected you on are the ones where you made sweeping generalizations.
Just for the record, I find you talking about peoples Character hysterical!!. Id be willing to bet that if we did a poll on how people peceive your character you might not like what the results show.

His character doesn't warrant a poll. Ah shit, inside voice.....

 

[ratter]

IMO, some of the "blame" has to go to guys who were willing to pay up front and in full for a product that didn't even exist yet.

 

[Chubtone]

Most of you guys know that I have been friends with Mark for probably 12-13 years now. I will normally defend Mark because I genuinely like the guy. I also like Ralph, Scott and Kage but NONE OF US have shelled out a penny to get in line for a Cameron amp. Any of us can make the LAME excuse that we just don't have the funds for it right now and that might be true if we are talking about what's in our pocket today. But ALL of us could have a 50% deposit on a CCV one week from now if we sold some gear we don't ever even use. Yet none of us are doing that and it is obvious there is a reason for it.

We all say " I will have a Cameron some day". We are all WAITING to see what's going to happen though. Our unblinking defense of Mark in every situation may be all it takes to convince someone else to plunk down their money. Yet, NONE of us have done the same and the reason isn't that we are broke. None of us are that broke that we won't come up with the money for the ultimate amp in the 9 months since they announced they were going into business.

I hope Mark does very well with this business. But, there is no excuse that while these Cameron Amplification amps are being delayed, that the rest of the mods get shipped out. There is no reason that since these amps are being delayed that while they are straightening production out, the first 5 guys (or the first 10 or 20 or 30 or however long it takes) would get hand-wired, limited edition Cameron amplifiers for the original price they were quoted. You create huge goodwill that way and you create an instant collectible.

I know everyone is getting bent at guys who have no deposit down on the amps criticizing the company. I think maybe that the rest of us with no money down should also back away from staunchly defending Cameron Amplification until there is a Cameron Amplification with a product.

Again, I wish the best of luck to Mark and Chris. They are both great guys. But since production amps are not going out the door, the mods should be, then the first few handwired Camerons should be.

And what Pat said earlier is interesting, an Egnater "Cameron" model. That might have been a great move. Egnater or Splawn or Krank or WHOEVER building a Cameron model amp designed 100% by Mark and built 100% by someone with manufacturing capability today.

 

[Jeff Hilligan]

Most of you guys know that I have been friends with Mark for probably 12-13 years now. I will normally defend Mark because I genuinely like the guy. I also like Ralph, Scott and Kage but NONE OF US have shelled out a penny to get in line for a Cameron amp. Any of us can make the LAME excuse that we just don't have the funds for it right now and that might be true if we are talking about what's in our pocket today. But ALL of us could have a 50% deposit on a CCV one week from now if we sold some gear we don't ever even use. Yet none of us are doing that and it is obvious there is a reason for it.

We all say " I will have a Cameron some day". We are all WAITING to see what's going to happen though. Our unblinking defense of Mark in every situation may be all it takes to convince someone else to plunk down their money. Yet, NONE of us have done the same and the reason isn't that we are broke. None of us are that broke that we won't come up with the money for the ultimate amp in the 9 months since they announced they were going into business.

I hope Mark does very well with this business. But, there is no excuse that while these Cameron Amplification amps are being delayed, that the rest of the mods get shipped out. There is no reason that since these amps are being delayed that while they are straightening production out, the first 5 guys (or the first 10 or 20 or 30 or however long it takes) would get hand-wired, limited edition Cameron amplifiers for the original price they were quoted. You create huge goodwill that way and you create an instant collectible.

I know everyone is getting bent at guys who have no deposit down on the amps criticizing the company. I think maybe that the rest of us with no money down should also back away from staunchly defending Cameron Amplification until there is a Cameron Amplification with a product.

Again, I wish the best of luck to Mark and Chris. They are both great guys. But since production amps are not going out the door, the mods should be, then the first few handwired Camerons should be.

And what Pat said earlier is interesting, an Egnater "Cameron" model. That might have been a great move. Egnater or Splawn or Krank or WHOEVER building a Cameron model amp designed 100% by Mark and built 100% by someone with manufacturing capability today.

Funny, we gave him a SL module 2 years ago and told him to play around with it and get back with us...never has....

 

[Digital Jams]

Most of you guys know that I have been friends with Mark for probably 12-13 years now. I will normally defend Mark because I genuinely like the guy. I also like Ralph, Scott and Kage but NONE OF US have shelled out a penny to get in line for a Cameron amp. Any of us can make the LAME excuse that we just don't have the funds for it right now and that might be true if we are talking about what's in our pocket today. But ALL of us could have a 50% deposit on a CCV one week from now if we sold some gear we don't ever even use. Yet none of us are doing that and it is obvious there is a reason for it.

We all say " I will have a Cameron some day". We are all WAITING to see what's going to happen though. Our unblinking defense of Mark in every situation may be all it takes to convince someone else to plunk down their money. Yet, NONE of us have done the same and the reason isn't that we are broke. None of us are that broke that we won't come up with the money for the ultimate amp in the 9 months since they announced they were going into business.

I hope Mark does very well with this business. But, there is no excuse that while these Cameron Amplification amps are being delayed, that the rest of the mods get shipped out. There is no reason that since these amps are being delayed that while they are straightening production out, the first 5 guys (or the first 10 or 20 or 30 or however long it takes) would get hand-wired, limited edition Cameron amplifiers for the original price they were quoted. You create huge goodwill that way and you create an instant collectible.

I know everyone is getting bent at guys who have no deposit down on the amps criticizing the company. I think maybe that the rest of us with no money down should also back away from staunchly defending Cameron Amplification until there is a Cameron Amplification with a product.

Again, I wish the best of luck to Mark and Chris. They are both great guys. But since production amps are not going out the door, the mods should be, then the first few handwired Camerons should be.

And what Pat said earlier is interesting, an Egnater "Cameron" model. That might have been a great move. Egnater or Splawn or Krank or WHOEVER building a Cameron model amp designed 100% by Mark and built 100% by someone with manufacturing capability today.

Hey Curt, you are a wise man beyond your years

Yes, I have stated I have no dog in this fight and yes I did not plunk down the 50% and yes I could pony up the cash right now for both a CCM and CCV without having to tap into the Roth accounts. I do have my reasons for not diving into the first batch and I believe you know the reasons and there is no need for me to go any further. At some point I will be contacting Mark and Chris for my order as I am sure they will get this straightened out, Mark's amps are just too good for me not to hold hope and still persue them in the future. As long as my JVM knobs stay on the amp I have something to keep me over

Egnater Cameron module, oy that would be the shit!!!!!


Hey....what do you have in stock used 6 string shredders anyways??

 

[Gainfreak]

Most of you guys know that I have been friends with Mark for probably 12-13 years now. I will normally defend Mark because I genuinely like the guy. I also like Ralph, Scott and Kage but NONE OF US have shelled out a penny to get in line for a Cameron amp. Any of us can make the LAME excuse that we just don't have the funds for it right now and that might be true if we are talking about what's in our pocket today. But ALL of us could have a 50% deposit on a CCV one week from now if we sold some gear we don't ever even use. Yet none of us are doing that and it is obvious there is a reason for it.

We all say " I will have a Cameron some day". We are all WAITING to see what's going to happen though. Our unblinking defense of Mark in every situation may be all it takes to convince someone else to plunk down their money. Yet, NONE of us have done the same and the reason isn't that we are broke. None of us are that broke that we won't come up with the money for the ultimate amp in the 9 months since they announced they were going into business.

I hope Mark does very well with this business. But, there is no excuse that while these Cameron Amplification amps are being delayed, that the rest of the mods get shipped out. There is no reason that since these amps are being delayed that while they are straightening production out, the first 5 guys (or the first 10 or 20 or 30 or however long it takes) would get hand-wired, limited edition Cameron amplifiers for the original price they were quoted. You create huge goodwill that way and you create an instant collectible.

I know everyone is getting bent at guys who have no deposit down on the amps criticizing the company. I think maybe that the rest of us with no money down should also back away from staunchly defending Cameron Amplification until there is a Cameron Amplification with a product.

Again, I wish the best of luck to Mark and Chris. They are both great guys. But since production amps are not going out the door, the mods should be, then the first few handwired Camerons should be.

And what Pat said earlier is interesting, an Egnater "Cameron" model. That might have been a great move. Egnater or Splawn or Krank or WHOEVER building a Cameron model amp designed 100% by Mark and built 100% by someone with manufacturing capability today.

I agree with you Curt and I totally Understand why people are getting pissed, but my defense was geared more to the sweeping generalisations that some people are making. (Drug use, using customers money for NAMM, Amps not getting out)

Don't quote me on this but Id be willing to bet that there are amps going out but they might be going to people who don't freequent this board so we won't hear about it. I think Ed Summed up a very realistic scenario. (Thanks Ed!)


With that said, to the best of my knowledge the guys arent taking anymore money upfront until they get the last pre-paid orders out.

Oh and for the record............ I did order a cameron and Im willing to wait until they get out from underneath all this crap before I get one......
but the deal is done.

Ralph

 

[daver101]

Just for the record, I find you talking about peoples Character hysterical!!. Id be willing to bet that if we did a poll on how people peceive your character you might not like what the results show.

The bottom line is actually this: Its all on them, and lets see if they can pull themselves out of this hole.

But what does it tell you when one of the people Odin is defending say:

If we're talking about animal analogies, maybe it's a horse that's been beaten to death.

I'm not a fanboi, I just want to know what you're trying to accomplish. With all the talk about the poor service in the Cameron forum, this comes off as a Mr. Obvious thread.

I don't think Odin is defending me. I don't have any money tied up, and no stake in anyone's company. Hell, I'm actually taking notes on all his tips on how to run an effective company. May help me in my career as a Plant Manager someday...

 

[daver101]

Does mark have one of your amps? Did you send him money and not recieved an amp yet? You sound more aggravated then the guys who are waiting for an amp. If you didn't give Mark any money just shut up already. If you have SO much to say why didn't you get the balls to go to NAMM and tell all this bullshit to their faces if it bothers you soo much. All your ranting here is accomplishing NOTHING.

Yup, well said.