Proof the Earth is round

VonBonfire said:
Yes, and I might start believing in a globe earth and moon landings like the others. Raise my glass, pinky held high, and toast them; LOOK AT ME I'M NORMAL NOW!!!
Click to expand...
Every journey begins with it's first step. Unless someone carries you out onto a platform and are transported there.
 
VonBonfire said:
One servant fails to be profitable with what he was given by his master and is no longer considered a servant afterwards, hence the loss of salvation.
Click to expand...
One cannot lose salvation that one never had.

I have copied a few quotes I have found on the topic - they seem to address the question well:

The uprofitable servant was a worker of iniquity due to his malign attitude towards his Master. Had he thought better of his Master, he would not have treated what he was entrusted with contemptuously. He tried to blame his Master (upon his return), accusing his Master of being a hard man, and dishonest to boot. The Master did not argue with the servant, who had shown himself to have a heart of stone. He saw him for what he truly was. Jesus had warned that "by our words we will be judged" (and vs. 22), so with this servant. His own words of accusation were hurled back at him. He had proved himself to be an enemy of the Master, rebelling against his Master's rule over him. Therefore, he was cast out, to experience weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Benson correctly observes:

Matthew 25:30. And cast ye the unprofitable servant — Who has so wickedly abused my goodness; into outer darkness — The darkness which is without the heavenly city, even the horrible darkness of hell. There, instead of the light and joy possessed by those who are admitted to the marriage- supper of the Lamb, shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth — Through the worm that dieth not, and the fire that is not quenched. There shall be the weeping of the careless, thoughtless sinner, and the gnashing of teeth of the proud and stubborn. See notes on Matthew 8:12; Matthew 13:42; Matthew 22:13. But why does this servant meet with this punishment? What had he done? It is true he had not done good. But neither is he charged with doing any harm. Why, for this reason, for barely doing no harm, he is consigned to outer darkness. He is pronounced a wicked, because he was a slothful, an unprofitable servant. So mere harmlessness, on which many build their hope of salvation, was the cause of his damnation! Observe this well, reader; slothful servants, who do nothing with respect to the purpose of their being sent into the world, nothing to answer the end of their birth and baptism, who are no way serviceable to the glory of God, or the good of others, will be reckoned with as unprofitable servants. A slothful servant is a withered member in the body, a barren tree in the vineyard, an idle drone in the hive, that is good for nothing. In one sense, indeed, we are all unprofitable servants, Luke 17:10. We cannot profit God, Job 22:2; but to others, and to ourselves, it is required that we be profitable; and if we be not, Christ will not own us as his servants.
Click to expand...
 
Thumbpicker said:
Therefore, he was cast out, to experience weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Click to expand...
So he was a part of his Master's household in the story. He lost his salvation i.e "cast out" from something he was previously in. This commentary seems to prove my point that you can be walking the narrow way, then fall off the path, and lose your salvation.
 
acceptance said:
What is the point of doing anything if God has already pre-ordained the "elect"? It makes a mockery of all his appeals for people to choose to follow him.
Click to expand...
Good question. Even the monks do not know where they will end up when they face the "dread judgment seat of Christ". "They were never saved to begin with" is the protestant response but canon law in the orthodox church is if a priest or monk absconds from the faith, the outcome will not be good.

It's a pathway, the narrow way. Some people fall off narrow pathways. I'm not sure where they get that ideology but it behooves the question: If I am saved, past tense, what's the point of a protestant church?
 
VonBonfire said:
Even the monks do not know where they will end up when they face the "dread judgment seat of Christ".
Click to expand...
Really? Orthodox don't have comfort that they are 'saved' and so on?
VonBonfire said:
"They were never saved to begin with"
Click to expand...
I claimed survivorship bias and the he thought I was kidding. There are many cases of people who are sincerely christian and then leave the church. I don't think you can just chalk that up to "they were never really christian."
 
acceptance said:
Really? Orthodox don't have comfort that they are 'saved' and so on?
Click to expand...
I mean, the Lord is a comfort to us, but it's a struggle. It seems prideful to me to be saying "I'm saved and I'm going to heaven" as though it was something you buy tickets for.

acceptance said:
There are many cases of people who are sincerely christian and then leave the church. I don't think you can just chalk that up to "they were never really christian."
Click to expand...
I would agree 100 percent. How many pastors, monks, priests have gone through huge amounts of training and life-commitment and then walked away? Many.
 
VonBonfire said:
I mean, the Lord is a comfort to us, but it's a struggle. It seems prideful to me to be saying "I'm saved and I'm going to heaven" as though it was something you buy tickets for.
Click to expand...
Oh boy, watch out you're going to catch it for that one haha. That's interesting though, as it sounds like in orthodoxy you are not obsessed with salvation... Or is that a concern and central, orienting theme as with protestantism?
 
Salvation was purchased by Christ on the cross. He did not die to provide individuals with an "opportunity" , His death was fully effectual for those who believe. It was not done in vain and cannot be lost. His effectual atonement isn't contingent upon the actions of mortal beings. To imply otherwise would be to deny His sovereignty.
 
VonBonfire said:
So he was a part of his Master's household in the story. He lost his salvation i.e "cast out" from something he was previously in. This commentary seems to prove my point that you can be walking the narrow way, then fall off the path, and lose your salvation.
Click to expand...
God is the master of all people - saved and unsaved whether the unsaved know it or not. You can't lose your salvation although you can be never saved. This is getting very close to the topic of predestination. You can debate for a month of Sundays about that one.
 
Thumbpicker said:
God is the master of all people - saved and unsaved whether the unsaved know it or not. You can't lose your salvation although you can be never saved. This is getting very close to the topic of predestination. You can debate for a month of Sundays about that one.
Click to expand...
one simply look at the parables of the soils to see the parallels here.
these were obviously people who were not true believers.

The biblical position "once saved always saved", derives from direct and assertive claims from Christ Himself.
Are you saying @VonBonfire that Jesus was lying when he said the following?

John 10

Christ, tell us openly.” 25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these bear witness of Me. 26But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish—ever; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
John 6
43Jesus answered and said to them, “Stop grumbling among yourselves. 44No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

Notice who it is that does the work, it isn't man - it's GOD
'For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus. '

Philippians 1:6
https://www.bible.com/bible/3345/PHP.1.6
 
VonBonfire said:
I mean, the Lord is a comfort to us, but it's a struggle. It seems prideful to me to be saying "I'm saved and I'm going to heaven" as though it was something you buy tickets for.


I would agree 100 percent. How many pastors, monks, priests have gone through huge amounts of training and life-commitment and then walked away? Many.
Click to expand...
so let me get this straight @VonBonfire , your position above on the satanist leader was that "we never know their hearts, he may have accepted the Lord", but now you claim to know the hearts of every man, and automatically know 100% with certainty that all of these people were Christians? You must have some kind of superhuman power that I don't have, because the Bible is clear that God knows men's hearts and there is absolutely zero way for you to know whether or not someone was truly a Christian. John clearly says those who go out from us aren't of us - so your position directly contradicts scripture.

I just don't understand your support of a self proclaimed satanist and I'm not going to engage either of you further.
Again scripture warns against it. You need read your bible man. You're very immature on it's teachings.

2Cor 6
14Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? 16Or what agreement has a sanctuary of God with idols
 
MontiCristo said:
so let me get this straight @VonBonfire , your position above on the satanist leader was that "we never know their hearts, he may have accepted the Lord", but now you claim to know the hearts of every man, and automatically know 100% with certainty that all of these people were Christians? You must have some kind of superhuman power that I don't have, because the Bible is clear that God knows men's hearts and there is absolutely zero way for you to know whether or not someone was truly a Christian. John clearly says those who go out from us aren't of us - so your position directly contradicts scripture.

I just don't understand your support of a self proclaimed satanist and I'm not going to engage either of you further.
Again scripture warns against it. You need read your bible man. You're very immature on it's teachings.

2Cor 6
14Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? 16Or what agreement has a sanctuary of God with idols
Click to expand...
I have told him drawing comfort from agreement from a person that is a follower of the mother of lies is a dangerous game.

@VonBonfire also said something to the effect that "oh he's not that type of satanist". I couldn't believe my ears... but knowing his position on flat earth's nothing surprises that comes from his mouth. I didn't realise there are good and bad satanists [sarcasm]
 
acceptance said:
So the next question is what of these people turns away from the faith? Do they lose their salvation or not?
Click to expand...
If they turn away they were never Christians. You are either the elect or you aren't. We are getting into "predestination". In short, God already knows who will be saved and who won't. I'm sure you actually know this and you are just trolling like usual. Trying to deceive people into falsehoods.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top