Proof the Earth is round

So you are telling me God doesn't know ahead of time what is going to happen. Clearly he does.
I think the argument that God's foreknowledge negates free will is a reasonable one. On the other hand there could be question as to what his foreek knowledge actually includes. To the extent our choices have not been made the argument could be made that there is nothing to know because nothing is there. I am not sure that this sort of hybrid position diminishes God's omniscience.
 
So you are telling me God doesn't know ahead of time what is going to happen. Clearly he does.
I don't doubt that part. I doubt what you are claiming i.e you are telling me there is no free will to repent and that God is the one who is responsible for those who choose to reject him. Ridiculous, and something condemned by many protestant churches because it's so obviously false. I guess this subject is your "flat earth" eh?
 
I think the argument that God's foreknowledge negates free will is a reasonable one.
Foreknowledge doesn't mean it's he (God) who causes them to reject him, he is just aware of what decision they will ultimately make. Dude is literally upending the entire point of the bible with his claims, which is why even most protestants have come to reject such far gone conclusions. They aren't sensible. Or logical. Or scripturally sound.
 
Read a sermon on it. It's not "dude is upending" - it's what the Bible says. Don't shoot the messenger.
I've read the bible. It says that in one part, which leaves you drawing incomplete, scripturally unsound conclusions which is why other protestants also reject it. Kind of like people who take scripture out of context to prove a "rapture".
 
I've read the bible. It says that in one part, which leaves you drawing incomplete, scripturally unsound conclusions which is why other protestants also reject it. Kind of like people who take scripture out of context to prove a "rapture".
No. There are other references too. I'm not going to set them all out here. Read the sermon. It's by one of the most famous preachers that ever lived. You need to ask yourself is the Bible the inspired word of God or not. Or do you believe your priests and leaders who are fallible humans just like you and I.

God has a plan. He knows what's going to happen ahead of time. We trapped by our sinful natures. It's only God that softens and allows our hearts to soften. God knows ahead of time who will respond. It's sad but true that not all people respond or will soften or have a nature that will or wants to respond to God's message. Salvation is by grace but that grace is given by God not by us. It's nothing we can do to be saved. God saves us and he knows who will be saved.

John 10:25-30

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30& I and my Father are one.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 10&version=KJV
 
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No. There are other references too. I'm not going to set them all out here. Read the sermon. It's by one of the most famous preachers that ever lived. You need to ask yourself is the Bible the inspired word of God or not. Or do you believe your priests and leaders who are fallible humans just like you and I.
I believe what the founders of the church taught with regard to scripture, not Charles Spurgeon who rode in 2000 years later on a surge of bad protestant theology. God may know the outcome, Esau he hated, but Esau CHOSE to spurn his birthright. I think you should probably re-read YOUR bible.
 
I believe what the founders of the church taught with regard to scripture, not Charles Spurgeon who rode in 2000 years later on a surge of bad protestant theology. God may know the outcome, Esau he hated, but Esau CHOSE to spurn his birthright. I think you should probably re-read YOUR bible.
Spurgeon is expounding the Bible. Your founders made it up as they went along.

Wake up. Study the word of God. Don't study fallible humans.

Sermons are meant to expound the word of God - they are not homilies and anecdotes.
 
Salvation is a free gift from God. Nothing we can do can save ourselves. It's God that does the saving. We are trapped in our sin and cannot escape without God. Think about that. You will realise it's true and it's also logical. It's also what the scripture says,
 
You need to ask yourself is the Bible the inspired word of God or not. Or do you believe your priests and leaders who are fallible humans just like you and I.
But you seem to think spurgeon is infallible and likewise you are infallible in your understanding of what the scripture say.
 
Salvation is a free gift from God. Nothing we can do can save ourselves. It's God that does the saving. We are trapped in our sin and cannot escape without God. Think about that. You will realise it's true and it's also logical. It's also what the scripture says,
In other words God picks and chooses who he will save. Not only that he created the very people that he will not choose to be saved and instead torment in hell forever. If there is ever a caricature of an evil god, that is it.
 
I believe what the founders of the church taught with regard to scripture, not Charles Spurgeon who rode in 2000 years later on a surge of bad protestant theology. God may know the outcome, Esau he hated, but Esau CHOSE to spurn his birthright. I think you should probably re-read YOUR bible.
They have to literally ignore every single time anyody chooses anything or God asks people to choose him to make sense of it. How's that for paying attention to what the Bible says?
 
But you seem to think spurgeon is infallible and likewise you are infallible in your understanding of what the scripture say.
No I don't. You miss the point. Spurgeon (AND OTHERS) only expound the Bible. The Catholic and Orthodox Churches made their own doctrine and that doctrine contradicts scripture. Scripture cannot however contradict scripture. Ergo their doctrine is false.
 
Thumbpicker: why would you ask me to repent and follow God if I have no choice in the matter? Shouldn't you be asking God? But he has already decided, so what's the point? It's just so ridiculous I can't believe anybody believes it. It's what happens when you have people of above average intelligence getting totally lost in the forest for the trees.
 
No I don't. You miss the point. Spurgeon (AND OTHERS) only expound the Bible. The Catholic and Orthodox Churches made their own doctrine.
That is the point. You are convinced that spurgeon is right. You are convinced that others have failed in understanding the Bible correctly. In other words spurgeons interpretation, and your understanding, are infallible.
 
That is the point. You are convinced that spurgeon is right. You are convinced that others have failed in understanding the Bible correctly. In other words spurgeons interpretation, and your understanding, are infallible.
I went on further to explain it you.

The Catholic and Orthodox Churches made their own doctrine and that doctrine contradicts scripture. Scripture cannot however contradict scripture. Ergo their doctrine is false.
 
Thumbpicker: why would you ask me to repent and follow God if I have no choice in the matter? Shouldn't you be asking God? But he has already decided, so what's the point? It's just so ridiculous I can't believe anybody believes it. It's what happens when you have people of above average intelligence getting totally lost in the forest for the trees.
I can only tell you what the word of God says. God speaks to us through his word. Delivering the message only plants the seed. It's God that needs to work in your life.

If this stuff gives you pause and you worry about it then there is still some hope. God may be speaking to you in that case.
 
You can pray to God that he softens your heart and forgives you and grants you his grace through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. Tell God how sorry you are for your sinfulness and pray that he helps strengthen you to repent and follow him.
 
I went on further to explain it you.

The Catholic and Orthodox Churches made their own doctrine and that doctrine contradicts scripture. Scripture cannot however contradict scripture. Ergo their doctrine is false.
I know that you think the Orthodox and Catholic churches contradict scripture. But you also think that other Protestant churches contradict scripture and they too claim to be only following what the Bible says.
 
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I know that you think the Orthodox and Catholic churches contradict scripture. But you also think that other Protestant churches contradict scripture and they also claim to be only following what the Bible says.
If you can demonstrate why this is the case using scripture and they can't demonstrate why they assert doctrine to the contrary then you are justified to think this.

Some protestant churches are advocating things that are not in the scripture at all.

I'll give you an example Gay Marriage or female ministers.

There is no justification from scripture on these things.
 
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