Proof the Earth is round

I don't claim anything. The very term "saved" is a past tense verb and participle. I'm teaching you what the bible says. Jesus said none will be snatched from His hands. Are you saying He was a liar? Was Judas snatched from His hand and He could do nothing about it?

BTW, only one can say "Jesus is Lord in the Holy Spirit" not natural man and certainly not a man used by Satan to accomplish God's will (Judas).

by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. 1Corinthians 12:3
So based on Christ's words above, are you still holding the position that Judas was a Christian?
Him having "walked with God" means nothing of the disposition and inner working of His heart. In the end, it's clear He was not a true believer.

. 19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they were of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be manifested that they all are not of us. 1 John 2:19
Well in the case of Judas the betrayal occurred before the new covenant was in force so he was still under the old covenant right?

Given his entrails spilled out I don't think God was very pleased with him though ;-)
 
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With regard to "once saved always saved" / "perseverance of the Saints". - Notice how I use the word "saints" there to describe those who believe in Christ, not some "elite" group of people the way Catholics or Orthodox folks do. Why do I call us saints? Because the bible Does. Phil 1:1-2
I have told them that but they don't really care for scripture.
 
I don't claim anything.
Sir, this is a theological discussion. Everything you are posting is a claim.

The very term "saved" is a past tense verb and participle.
Yes, and a very inaccurate way of describing the narrow way. It's not one and done. It's not past tense until we face God on judgement day.

I'm teaching you what the bible says.
You're teaching sola scriptura, which is completely inaccurate and not something most churches are a part of. So you're in an extreme minority of believers who still subscribe to a demonstrably false theological claim.

Jesus said none will be snatched from His hands. Are you saying He was a liar? Was Judas snatched from His hand and He could do nothing about it?
I'm saying he might as well have been out there splashing around drunk in a mud puddle since by your theology God decided he would not be saved. Or maybe, just maybe, it was his choice to betray Christ to the authorities that rendered his walk with Christ null and void and the Lord merely knew this in advance. It doesn't mean he chose that pathway for him. You're obtuse.


Notice how I use the word "saints" there to describe those who believe in Christ, not some "elite" group of people the way Catholics or Orthodox folks do. Why do I call us saints? Because the bible Does.
Yes, the apostles and disciples aren't real saints, but you are. They are elitist but you stating you are among the saints isn't. Classic protestant arrogance and pride, rebels who determine what the bible says and what the scripture means. Every man his own bishop and arbiter of all that is right and good. No surprise then there will be even disagreement in your own brand of faith.
 
Matthew 26:27

And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you;

Pick one that best matches the above bible verse:

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the only person who would hold the opinion you are positing is a person who believe that going to church saves you = works.
The bible is clear that it is Faith that unites us to Christ, not Church attendance. Such thinking is Pharisaical.
You're actually the one being "pharisaical." You are continually splitting theological hairs and reading into the scripture what isn't there, condemning everyone who doesn't see it they way you do. And this faith/works question is a false dichotomy. Your interpretation conditions salvation on holding a specific belief. And by the way, James said faith without works is dead.
 
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Here's a couple interesting quotes from St. Ignatius of Antioch from the year 110 AD:

“I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible” (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]).

“Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2–7:1 [A.D. 110]).


The Apostle Paul writes: "The cup of blessing which we bless, it at not the communion of the Blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the Body of Christ? For we, being many are one bread, and one body, for we are all partakers of that one bread" (1 Cor. 10:16-17).

St. Cyril of Jerusalem
"Since Christ Himself has said, 'This is My Body,' who shall dare to doubt that it is His Body?"

"You receive the Cup which seemingly comes from the hands of man. What is it to you whether the bearer of the Cup acts righteously or unrighteously? As a follower of Jesus, your concern is to act righteously; to receive the Cup with thanksgiving to God and with a living faith; and courageously to drink it to the dregs". + St. Ignatius Brianchaninov, The Cup of Christ
 

"How many of you say: I should like to see His face, His garments, His shoes. You do see Him, you touch Him, you eat Him. He gives Himself to you, not only that you may see Him, but also to be your food and nourishment." - Saint John Chrysostom​


For as the bread, which is produced from the earth, when it receives the invocation of God, is no longer common bread, but the Eucharist, consisting of two realities, earthly and heavenly; so also our bodies, when they receive the Eucharist, are no longer corruptible, having the hope of the resurrection to eternity.-St. Irenaeus from his book "Against Heresies"
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Anyone cozying up to a satanist and claiming anything else is a false prophet.
And since you can't address your theological shortcomings you resort to a thumbpicker level post. Meanwhile the satanist is looking up verses and beating the big shot "I WENT TO SEMINARY" at his own theological arguments. This is your cue to brush up on the early church and the holy traditions and try again another time.
 
The Bible is the word of the Lord.
Anyone cozying up to a satanist and claiming anything else is a false prophet.

17 “Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth.
2 Timothy 3:16

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
 
So does that mean we can call it wrap?

:dunno:
He doesn't have much of an argument left so now he's taken to accusing me of hanging out with, or as he says "cozying up to" sinners as though he weren't at the party. It's a difficult thing to spend years in protestantism only to find out the whole thing was a giant distortion of the truth and that you wasted many years thinking wrong things and learning from misguided, wrong teachers. It takes time and some humility to get straightened out but I think the process has begun for him. At least, that's my prayer.
 
I think it was difficult for thumbpicker to be confronted with the fact that the giants of the protestant church were all flat earthers.:LOL:
I think Calvin and Luther were actually geocentric ball earthers because of Joshua (10:12-13) telling the sun to stand still. they apparently also held to a firmament with waters above.

Good point regarding the Joshua passage though. If Monty and Thumb believe it actually happened do they think god reinterpreted Joshua's prayer and stopped the earth for a day instead?
 
And since you can't address your theological shortcomings you resort to a thumbpicker level post. Meanwhile the satanist is looking up verses and beating the big shot "I WENT TO SEMINARY" at his own theological arguments. This is your cue to brush up on the early church and the holy traditions and try again another time.
shame on you man. You slander the Name of Our Lord by endorsing this guy. You're a false prophet. I wish you and the satanist a very long happy life together.
 
For the record everyone, the whole "faith without works is dead" argument that the Satanist and @VonBonfire are arguing is again another example of how they don't understand hermeneutic principals or the importance of biblical contextualization.

Jesus said the following : but It's clear that neither of them care about what Jesus said.

' “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. '
John 14:15

15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorn bushes or figs from thistles?
9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Cor 6

So yes, anyone claiming to have faith and not having corresponding fruit is not a genuine believer.
only a satanist or anyone supporting a satanist would twist these words to imply that Faith + works = salvation.
It isn't Faith + works = salvation, it's Faith without fruit isn't faith. A child could understand this.
 
He doesn't have much of an argument left so now he's taken to accusing me of hanging out with, or as he says "cozying up to" sinners as though he weren't at the party. It's a difficult thing to spend years in protestantism only to find out the whole thing was a giant distortion of the truth and that you wasted many years thinking wrong things and learning from misguided, wrong teachers. It takes time and some humility to get straightened out but I think the process has begun for him. At least, that's my prayer.
You're delusional, you and acceptance have been in cohoots throughout this entire deal. You cannot back up, substantiate or support any of your claims. All you do is post quotes from some rando early church father all the while claiming that you are a "Christian". Christians don't mock the word of God, they don't support satanist, they don't slander the bible and they revere Jesus and His words.

No quote from any rando dude can ever be substantiated unless lined up by an objective standard and that standard is the word of God. The church derives it's authority from Christ, not the other way around.

Perhaps I should post some quotes from whinnie the poo and claim they are authoritative. smg

Col 1 :18
18And He is the head of the body, the church;
Who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

I just think it's shameful for someone like you to be in support of a satanist. You're an embarrassment.
 
You're delusional, you and acceptance have been in cohoots throughout this entire deal. You cannot back up, substantiate or support any of your claims. All you do is post quotes from some rando early church father all the while claiming that you are a "Christian". Christians don't mock the word of God, they don't support satanist, they don't slander the bible and they revere Jesus and His words.

No quote from any rando dude can ever be substantiated unless lined up by an objective standard and that standard is the word of God. The church derives it's authority from Christ, not the other way around.

Perhaps I should post some quotes from whinnie the poo and claim they are authoritative. smg

Col 1 :18
18And He is the head of the body, the church;
Who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

I just think it's shameful for someone like you to be in support of a satanist. You're an embarrassment.
Seems to me that you're playing the part of Satan. You're attacking him for things he hasn't done. He didn't mock Jesus or the scriptures, he mocked you. And I have been respectful of both the whole time as well. The problem is that you can't wrap your brain around the idea that you don't have some personal infallible claim to interpretation of scriptures — the very thing that you say the Orthodox and Catholic churches shouldn't do. You have deceived yourself into thinking that scripture can be objectively and conclusively interpreted and you and your little sect have the key when you don't.
 
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