Proof there is a God

acceptance said:
I mean there were various sects and teachers and so on that didn't, and that's one of the things Nicea settled.
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Right, but the protestants (and others) use Nicea as an attack point rather than viewing it as the confirmation and codification of core beliefs that were already held as true. There heretics were condemned and reined in via ecumenical councils, the whole reason for them being what I just mentioned, because false teachers had already become a problem then.
 
VonBonfire said:
See what I mean? Assigning catholic heresy to orthodoxy isn't going to work here. We hold Mary to be above the saints but below Christ. She is the mother of the church. She holds a special place as the mother of God so she is revered.
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Was she sinful?
Do you have any graven images of her?
Do you pray to her?
 
jdel77 said:
Absolutely and irrefutably incorrect. The "Us" in the Old Testament is not the Trinity.

The Trinity is never mentioned in the Old Testament, only in the New Testament.

Historically and from the Hebrew, the "Us" in the Old Testament refers explicitly to the Elohim.

'Elohim' is a Biblical Hebrew plural noun, meaning Yahweh (later transliterated to Jehovah) was merely one of the many deities the Israelites worshipped possibly as far back as the Bronze Age, with definite evidence emerging around 900BCE on adminstrative seals as per Elijah's account.

So the Old Testament god was just one of a bunch of pantheistic Gods which the Israelites worshipped (the Ilhm).

It literally says in Psalm 82 in Latin that Yahweh is just one of many gods in the Assembly, or pantheon of gods.

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The Jews do not believe in the Holy Trinity and the concept of the plural 'Royal We or Us' didn't emerge until Medieval Christianity when Latin had been dead for at least 400 to 500 years.

Monotheistic (One god) Christianity didn't emerge until the 2nd or 3rd Centuries CE and it was just one of a handful of theologies competing for socio-political dominance, catechized and enforced by Constantine in 325 CE at the Nicean Council which locked in agreement for the Trinity, converting pagan holy days into Christian holidays and other associated legalese.
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🤦🏻‍♂️ the “us” there is NOT translated Elohim
 
VonBonfire said:
Right, but the protestants (and others) use Nicea as an attack point rather than viewing it as the confirmation and codification of core beliefs that were already held as true. There heretics were condemned and reined in via ecumenical councils, the whole reason for them being what I just mentioned, because false teachers had already become a problem then.
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Because the entire council was in refutation to what you call “orthodoxy”.
 
VonBonfire said:
We call it a mystery, not transubstantiation. We believe it is the actual body and blood of Christ.


So reconcile that with John 6 53 where we are told if we do not eat his flesh and drink his blood we have no life in us. Tell me about the blessed cup of blessings in 1 corinthians 10:16.
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It’s completely weird and creepy that you attribute that with needing to cannabalize His actual flesh. It’s about bringing in communion with Him by FAITH, not eating his flesh.
 
MontiCristo said:
Was she sinful?
Do you have any graven images of her?
Do you pray to her?
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She was born of the same sin nature we all are but she chose not to sin.

Define graven image. Were the pomegranates in the temple graven? Were the oxen that supported the basin graven? You are attempting to pull the same iconoclast controversy that was settled a thousand years ago. The iconoclasts lost and icons were deemed acceptable.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Chronicles 4-36&version=NLT

We at times request the intercession of the saints and of Mary since the bible says they are in heaven and alive in Christ. We do not pray "to her".
 
MontiCristo said:
Not exactly, Christ as the 3rd person of the Holy Trinity was everywhere in the OT.
Beginning right there in Genesis 1:26 "let US make man in our own image". That Us = Trinity. Several others I can share if interested.
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We believe in the Trinity as a term to describe the reality of the persons of God. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. The word Trinity itself is not used anywhere the Bible however it's just a descriptive word.
MontiCristo said:
It’s completely weird and creepy that you attribute that with needing to cannabalize His actual flesh. It’s about bringing in communion with Him by FAITH, not eating his flesh.
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Touching his robe is one thing... gobbling him up is quite another 😂

I've come to suck your blood... Draculations 3.12
 
MontiCristo said:
It’s completely weird and creepy that you attribute that with needing to cannabalize His actual flesh. It’s about bringing in communion with Him by FAITH, not eating his flesh.
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It's extremely unchristian of you to say that something that was the core of the christian service for over 1500 years is somehow "weird and creepy". It's a sacrament. You still have John 6:53 to deal with which says that unless you eat of his body and drink of his blood you have no life in you.
 
Thumbpicker said:
https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-eat-flesh-drink-blood.html

OK it's dealt with there - next...
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Link wrongly calls it transubstantiation in orthodoxy. That's a roman catholic invention. It is a mystery in orthodoxy.

If we commune by faith i.e per montecristo, then what is the purpose of the bread and wine? Symbolism? We could do away with symbolism and just have a drawing to remind us of it. If it has no power in and of itself then it's a antiquated tradition that can be done away with. So why keep it? Because it is what the entire faith hinges on i.e real, actual communion with Christ via his body and blood.
 
This is why Paul says:

For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when He was betrayed took bread, and when He had given thanks, He broke it, and said, “This is My body which is broken for you. Do this in remembrance of Me.” In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. Do this, as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death, until He comes. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread and drinks the cup in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord (1 Cor 11.23–26).
 
VonBonfire said:
Link wrongly calls it transubstantiation in orthodoxy. That's a roman catholic invention. It is a mystery in orthodoxy.
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Semantics.
VonBonfire said:
If we commune by faith i.e per montecristo, then what is the purpose of the bread and wine? Symbolism? We could do away with symbolism and just have a drawing to remind us of it. If it has no power in and of itself then it's a antiquated tradition that can be done away with. So why keep it? Because it is what the entire faith hinges on i.e real, actual communion with Christ via his body and blood.
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All rituals are symbolic.

Marriage is a ritual - it's symbolic. It's your intentions that matter. God knows your intentions and what is in your heart.
 
VonBonfire said:
So how do we profane the body and blood of the Lord eating unworthily if it's all symbolic?
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By not being reverent and not having yourself right with the Lord when you take communion and not doing it in the spirit of remembrance. By doing it for show... by being blase about it... by making a mockery of it... all those things.

It's symbolic but there is a spiritual reality all the same. Again God knows your thoughts and heart.
 
Thumbpicker said:
By not being reverent and not having yourself right with the Lord when you take communion and not doing it in the spirit of remembrance. By doing it for show... by being blase about it... by making a mockery of it... all those things.
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But it's meaningless since it's not the actual body and blood of the Lord. It's welch's and some cheap bread chips. What you're telling me is you've never actually communed with the Lord because you haven't consumed his body nor his blood, and deny teachings that are long established and codified from the earliest times. I think you are symbolically christian and that's about it.
 
VonBonfire said:
But it's meaningless since it's not the actual body and blood of the Lord. It's welch's and some cheap bread chips. What you're telling me is you've never actually communed with the Lord because you haven't consumed his body nor his blood, and deny teachings that are long established and codified from the earliest times. I think you are symbolically christian and that's about it.
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Don't lie to me. You've never tasted his blood or body. It's not his blood and his body. You don't go alicadabra turn this into real blood and flesh. If you want to tell me it's really flesh and blood and you taste it as such I'm calling you a bald-faced liar on the spot.
 
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