Wizard guys, differences in MC vs MCII vs MTL?

Erock

Erock

Well-known member
So it appears there are more Wizards on this forum than 5150 at this point. :p

Would appreciate a little info on the differences between these models from guys that played them. I owned an MC, and I really liked that amp. Loved the chunk and mid grind. I've missed it over the years, and I've been looking to find another one at the right price. I'd like some perspective on the differences with his current models though. Mainly looking at the MC, to MCII, to MTL progression. I owned a very early MTL, but it didn't sound or look like anything in his current models. Thanks!
 
The MTL has more low mid emphasis and gain on tap from what I remember, imo more chunk between the 2. I had a 1996 MC 100w EL34 and 2016 MTL 100w EL34. Both very good amps, but imho the Hell Razor KT150 smokes those. It’s like those models on steroids plus the higher power section. Assuming you just want high gain (no rock), I’d skip those versions if you have the means and just go for a Hell Razor model as my 2 cents. No boosts needed whatsoever either (better without). It’s tighter, punchier, more attack, tons more gain, more unique, feels better to play
 
braintheory said:
The MTL has more low mid emphasis and gain on tap from what I remember, imo more chunk between the 2. I had a 1996 MC 100w EL34 and 2016 MTL 100w EL34. Both very good amps, but imho the Hell Razor KT150 smokes those. It’s like those models on steroids plus the higher power section. Assuming you just want high gain (no rock), I’d skip those versions if you have the means and just go for a Hell Razor model as my 2 cents. No boosts needed whatsoever either (better without). It’s tighter, punchier, more attack, tons more gain, more unique, feels better to play
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Ya I pretty much agreed. The MTL2 gets this insane fat fat low end that’s really fun.but ya I’d get the Hell Razor . Most powerful eqing of any amp I’ve owned
 
braintheory said:
The MTL has more low mid emphasis and gain on tap from what I remember, imo more chunk between the 2. I had a 1996 MC 100w EL34 and 2016 MTL 100w EL34. Both very good amps, but imho the Hell Razor KT150 smokes those. It’s like those models on steroids plus the higher power section. Assuming you just want high gain (no rock), I’d skip those versions if you have the means and just go for a Hell Razor model as my 2 cents. No boosts needed whatsoever either (better without). It’s tighter, punchier, more attack, tons more gain, more unique, feels better to play
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Very interesting, thanks for the opinion and info. As much as I need/like metal tones, I do dig a little old school "kerrang". While the HR sounds amazing, I wonder if the MTL is my huckleberry.
 
Techdeth said:
Ya I pretty much agreed. The MTL2 gets this insane fat fat low end that’s really fun.but ya I’d get the Hell Razor . Most powerful eqing of any amp I’ve owned
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the HR is tempting. I don't see many of them used though. I had more of a George relationship with the builder than a Kramer relationship regarding soup, so not sure how well that would work. :p
 
Erock said:
Very interesting, thanks for the opinion and info. As much as I need/like metal tones, I do dig a little old school "kerrang". While the HR sounds amazing, I wonder if the MTL is my huckleberry.
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The MTL would be the least kerrang-y of them IME. None of them have the same type of kerrang as a Marshall, but even in that department in its own way I think the Hell Razor is the best of the Wizards. With the bright knob turned up and other settings done right it can get this very aggressive, present uppermidrange in a different way than Marshall’s that is also great
 
Out of them all I have a special desire for an MTL 100W MkII 6L6. I think the EL34 models have the Splawn cocked wah mid thing going on that isn’t my preference.

I haven’t played one but if you’re dying to have a hell razor go for it, but if that tone is what you seek I’d suggest a Bogner Uber rev2 instead, pocket the 3 grand you’d save and call it a day.
 
glpg80 said:
Out of them all I have a special desire for an MTL 100W MkII 6L6. I think the EL34 models have the Splawn cocked wah mid thing going on that isn’t my preference.

I haven’t played one but if you’re dying to have a hell razor go for it, but if that tone is what you seek I’d suggest a Bogner Uber rev2 instead, pocket the 3 grand you’d save and call it a day.
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There was nothing remotely cocked wah sounding about the EL34 MTL or MC I had. If anything the exact opposite with a hollow, laid back midrange quality. I hate the cocked wah mids and am sensitive to that sound and actually have also a Splawn modded Marshall that does have that sound they’re known for. Play it side by side with those Wizard models and you’ll hear it’s the exact opposite. Maybe whatever clip that showed that had other ingredients with cocked wah mids whether it was speakers, pickups or who knows

The Uber and Hell Razor also are complete opposites in flavors, but I do love both and have a Rev 1 Uber. The Uber’s are thick, dark, chewy, juicy, low mid heavy amps, while the Hell Razor is inherently bright, way more open, far tighter, more defined/crisp, more percussive, clearer. When I AB them as well as the Uber Ultra I had before there really was no overlap I could hear. Total apples vs oranges. It’s more just like the MC on steroids that also be dialed in to almost get Hermansson-like if desired. I can’t really think of a cheaper alternative besides an MC or other Wizard found at a cheap price plus a good boost. Like any amp, they’re not gonna be for everyone, but if you like what they do no other amp I’ve tried yet matches them at their forte and of all the many high gain amps out there the Ubers especially don’t get in their ballpark, but early Uber’s are some my personal favorites for my taste

The feel also of the Wizards, Splawn’s and Uber’s are completely different from each other as well as the UU having its own type of feel that I didn’t like
 
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Erock said:
the HR is tempting. I don't see many of them used though. I had more of a George relationship with the builder than a Kramer relationship regarding soup, so not sure how well that would work. :p
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There are ONLY 2 guys I know that get Christmas Cards from Rick .
I think if you just give him a call and wave cash (he can smell it) he will get you on the list.
 
braintheory said:
There was nothing remotely cocked wah sounding about the EL34 MTL or MC I had. If anything the exact opposite with a hollow, laid back midrange quality. I hate the cocked wah mids and am sensitive to that sound and actually have also a Splawn modded Marshall that does have that sound they’re known for. Play it side by side with those Wizard models and you’ll hear it’s the exact opposite. Maybe whatever clip that showed that had other ingredients with cocked wah mids whether it was speakers, pickups or who knows

The Uber and Hell Razor also are complete opposites in flavors, but I do love both and have a Rev 1 Uber. The Uber’s are thick, dark, chewy, juicy, low mid heavy amps, while the Hell Razor is inherently bright, way more open, far tighter, more defined/crisp, more percussive, clearer. When I AB them as well as the Uber Ultra I had before there really was no overlap I could hear. Total apples vs oranges. It’s more just like the MC on steroids that also be dialed in to almost get Hermansson-like if desired. I can’t really think of a cheaper alternative besides an MC or other Wizard found at a cheap price plus a good boost. Like any amp, they’re not gonna be for everyone, but if you like what they do no other amp I’ve tried yet matches them at their forte and of all the many high gain amps out there the Ubers especially don’t get in their ballpark, but early Uber’s are some my personal favorites for my taste

The feel also of the Wizards, Splawn’s and Uber’s are completely different from each other as well as the UU having its own type of feel that I didn’t like
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I think there was confusion in my post and I apologize. I agree whole heartedly what you’re saying regarding the UU but when I said rev2, I didn’t mean mk2, I meant rev green. Just clarification.
 
MC and MTL both hard rock amps to me straight in. MC less low end, MTL bigger low end. Boosted both can get real gnarly.

Hell razor is an amp made for metal. Can go way overboard with all the settings.

All are tight, raw, uncompressed. I think many guys here value feel over the actual frequency spectrum the amp puts out.

The make or break for MANY people with wizards are the mids. They are hollow sounding but somehow like super present too… maybe my ear is just extra sensitive to it. If you’ve played a VHT… same deal there. If it is micd up pretty much no way you don’t hear it.



This was the last micd up clip I did with my MTL boosted. If it doesn’t play here, then click the arrow at the corner.

Also, that wasn’t a DI. Amp micd up right next to me cranked and double tracking is not a recipe for success for tight tracks.
 
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glpg80 said:
Out of them all I have a special desire for an MTL 100W MkII 6L6. I think the EL34 models have the Splawn cocked wah mid thing going on that isn’t my preference.

I haven’t played one but if you’re dying to have a hell razor go for it, but if that tone is what you seek I’d suggest a Bogner Uber rev2 instead, pocket the 3 grand you’d save and call it a day.
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just picked up a 100w 6L6 Hell Razor - I think I prefer 6L6's to EL34 in his amps as well.
 
glpg80 said:
I think there was confusion in my post and I apologize. I agree whole heartedly what you’re saying regarding the UU but when I said rev2, I didn’t mean mk2, I meant rev green. Just clarification.
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Yeah I like the Rev Green and Rev 1 Uber’s a lot more, but find them further away from the Hell Razor’s sound than the the UU. I think some find the UU HR-like because it can get can very tight, punchy and more modern, but those were the only vague similarities I could hear when I had the UU AB’ed with the HR. The tone or gain structure (whatever one wants to call it) was completely different, but I do love both flavors. I actually enjoy the early Uber’s more for my personal taste, but they don’t do what wizards do. I guess, I forgot, the Fryette’s can be a cheaper alternative, but they’re not my favorites
 
braintheory said:
I forgot, the Fryette’s can be a cheaper alternative, but they’re not my favorites
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yeah, I’d strongly recommend anyone that’s on the fence due to their cost… try a Fryette/vht first. Can get a used deliverance for cheap at this point. Wizards are better but it is at least in the same sport. Raw, uncompressed. They both have the hollow mids too. So guys can figure out if that’s something they dig or not.
 
Bram576 said:
MC and MTL both hard rock amps to me straight in. MC less low end, MTL bigger low end. Boosted both can get real gnarly.

Hell razor is an amp made for metal. Can go way overboard with all the settings.

All are tight, raw, uncompressed. I think many guys here value feel over the actual frequency spectrum the amp puts out.

The make or break for MANY people with wizards are the mids. They are hollow sounding but somehow like super present too… maybe my ear is just extra sensitive to it. If you’ve played a VHT… same deal there. If it is micd up pretty much no way you don’t hear it.



This was the last micd up clip I did with my MTL boosted. If it doesn’t play here, then click the arrow at the corner.
Click to expand...

Yes the mids are the one unagreeable part with them. For me they’re otherwise almost perfect. With my HR KT150 I’ve figured out some unconventional settings involving the mids dimed and low gain input and actually almost have a midrange I like with it since then
 
Bram576 said:
yeah, I’d strongly recommend anyone that’s on the fence due to their cost… try a Fryette/vht first. Can get a used deliverance for cheap at this point. Wizards are better but it is at least in the same sport. Raw, uncompressed. They both have the hollow mids too. So guys can figure out if that’s something they dig or not.
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The Uberschall Ultra is a good amp that's in the same ballpark for heavy crushing tones like the Hell Razor - although different feel, there's loads of tone shaping and fun as hell to play.
 
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