Hammett On Beato

[311splawndude]

Race uses an original model Motorola Razr

His riffs are better than Kirk's so he def needs to do something then

 

[DanTravis62]

I sense a lot of bitterness.

I think the "whole is greater than sum of the parts" statement as was made is huge for Metallica. Guitar forums are a tiny percentage of listeners. We will surely all have opinions on who is the best, but even if we all agreed, great, there is 47 people responding to some poll about who is the best guitar player/who sucks/whatever.

It has been my observation that most of the guitar players who are playing the music that is appreciated the most widely, aren't the most skilled, but are rather almost entry-level in their genre. As musicians progress they often do complicated for the sake of complicated and alienate the average listener.

It isn't JUST his lack of technical skills that people are ragging on

It's his lack of compositional or writing skills

His solos very frequently take their respective song down a notch or two, or in some cases are so ridiculous and unmusical that it creates unintentional comedy

There's a reason I mentioned the guitarists I did when comparing to Kirk - they ALL are lead guitar players who added to the whole, and made their songs more memorable and better.

I didn't say "oh my god Metallica would have been so killer with Michael Angelo batio or Steve Vai playing" because that isn't even close to the point I was making.

Metallica would probably have been an even greater band if their lead guitarist had even the slightest melodic or compositional skill to add to that synergy.

 

[braintheory]

It isn't JUST his lack of technical skills that people are ragging on

It's his lack of compositional or writing skills

His solos very frequently take their respective song down a notch or two, or in some cases are so ridiculous and unmusical that it creates unintentional comedy

There's a reason I mentioned the guitarists I did when comparing to Kirk - they ALL are lead guitar players who added to the whole, and made their songs more memorable and better.

I didn't say "oh my god Metallica would have been so killer with Michael Angelo batio or Steve Vai playing" because that isn't even close to the point I was making.

Metallica would probably have been an even greater band if their lead guitarist had even the slightest melodic or compositional skill to add to that synergy.

I think it sticks out so much because it’s in Metallica, where the rest of the song often is often so tightly constructed without too many notes and making each one count (a real strength of Metallica imo), but then the solos ditch that theme of the rest of them song. If it were in almost any other band he’d probably just be another guitarist that wouldn’t be so criticized, but not praised either, just whatever

Really though it’s I think incredibly rare to find many guitar solos period within any song that isn’t a musical afterthought or just used as an opportunity to just try and show their “skills”. Lots of famous guitarists that many guys here love I don’t think crafted solos that have much to say in emotional content, but those are I guess separate discussions haha

 

[311splawndude]

^mostly agreed but I would say EVH solo's were largely emotional. Sometimes, wank city, but emotional nonetheless. He, like Hendrix and SRV, were literally talking through their guitar.

It isn't JUST his lack of technical skills that people are ragging on

It's his lack of compositional or writing skills

His solos very frequently take their respective song down a notch or two, or in some cases are so ridiculous and unmusical that it creates unintentional comedy

There's a reason I mentioned the guitarists I did when comparing to Kirk - they ALL are lead guitar players who added to the whole, and made their songs more memorable and better.

I didn't say "oh my god Metallica would have been so killer with Michael Angelo batio or Steve Vai playing" because that isn't even close to the point I was making.

Metallica would probably have been an even greater band if their lead guitarist had even the slightest melodic or compositional skill to add to that synergy.

That and honestly, most of Metallica's catalog doesn't even require heavy technicality. I like their old catalog stuff just the way it is. A Baito or Vai or Freidman or Broderick or ( insert here ) probably would not have worked as well. But your comment about 'bringing the music down a notch' is spot on.

 

[Ben Waylin]

It isn't JUST his lack of technical skills that people are ragging on

It's his lack of compositional or writing skills

His solos very frequently take their respective song down a notch or two, or in some cases are so ridiculous and unmusical that it creates unintentional comedy

There's a reason I mentioned the guitarists I did when comparing to Kirk - they ALL are lead guitar players who added to the whole, and made their songs more memorable and better.

I didn't say "oh my god Metallica would have been so killer with Michael Angelo batio or Steve Vai playing" because that isn't even close to the point I was making.

Metallica would probably have been an even greater band if their lead guitarist had even the slightest melodic or compositional skill to add to that synergy.

You're making a whole lotta sense.

 

[paulyc]

It isn't JUST his lack of technical skills that people are ragging on

It's his lack of compositional or writing skills

His solos very frequently take their respective song down a notch or two, or in some cases are so ridiculous and unmusical that it creates unintentional comedy

There's a reason I mentioned the guitarists I did when comparing to Kirk - they ALL are lead guitar players who added to the whole, and made their songs more memorable and better.

I didn't say "oh my god Metallica would have been so killer with Michael Angelo batio or Steve Vai playing" because that isn't even close to the point I was making.

Metallica would probably have been an even greater band if their lead guitarist had even the slightest melodic or compositional skill to add to that synergy.

I think Mustaine is a way better riff writer and soloist than Kirk. I like the early Metallica way more than anything else of theirs. Up through RTL.

 

[ccn]

This thread would make a lot more sense IF Hammett was labeled and viewed as some type of guitar God but correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think he was ever viewed that way.


He's just one of the guitar players in a popular band not some guitar extraordinaire.

 

[SoooRad]

It isn't JUST his lack of technical skills that people are ragging on

It's his lack of compositional or writing skills

His solos very frequently take their respective song down a notch or two, or in some cases are so ridiculous and unmusical that it creates unintentional comedy

There's a reason I mentioned the guitarists I did when comparing to Kirk - they ALL are lead guitar players who added to the whole, and made their songs more memorable and better.

I didn't say "oh my god Metallica would have been so killer with Michael Angelo batio or Steve Vai playing" because that isn't even close to the point I was making.

Metallica would probably have been an even greater band if their lead guitarist had even the slightest melodic or compositional skill to add to that synergy.

I don't disagree, I just don't think it matters at this point. He is so embedded that its just wasted energy even thinking about it.

And with that, I don't need to comment on this topic anymore.

 

[braintheory]

^mostly agreed but I would say EVH solo's were largely emotional. Sometimes, wank city, but emotional nonetheless. He, like Hendrix and SRV, were literally talking through their guitar.



That and honestly, most of Metallica's catalog doesn't even require heavy technicality. I like their old catalog stuff just the way it is. A Baito or Vai or Freidman or Broderick or ( insert here ) probably would not have worked as well. But your comment about 'bringing the music down a notch' is spot on.

I think Friedman actually could’ve potentially been great, but not those other guys mentioned. I think he also would’ve known how to adapt well to fit the songs when needed. Him and RR are among the only players I’ve heard that can compose solos that have speed to them (maybe not quite shred though) with musical quality and coherency behind them and make the notes actually count. It’s a shame not many guitarists seemed to take after him

The other thing I never got is how it seems to be acceptable to do those repeated double stop bend figures that many of those players did (not just Kirk). I always thought what the hell, did they just run out of ideas of what to play there lol. It sometimes makes up a good fraction of the entire solo LOL. I mean even many 5 year olds can probably come up with something better than just repeated double stop bends

 

[thegame]

Hammett on Beato? I hope it was consensual.

 

[DanTravis62]

I think it sticks out so much because it’s in Metallica, where the rest of the song often is often so tightly constructed without too many notes and making each one count (a real strength of Metallica imo), but then the solos ditch that theme of the rest of them song. If it were in almost any other band he’d probably just be another guitarist that wouldn’t be so criticized, but not praised either, just whatever

Really though it’s I think incredibly rare to find many guitar solos period within any song that isn’t a musical afterthought or just used as an opportunity to just try and show their “skills”. Lots of famous guitarists that many guys here love I don’t think crafted solos that have much to say in emotional content, but those are I guess separate discussions haha

I agree, with both points

Personally though, those showy guitarists aren't really my jam though

This thread would make a lot more sense IF Hammett was labeled and viewed as some type of guitar God but correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think he was ever viewed that way.


He's just one of the guitar players in a popular band not some guitar extraordinaire.

 

[braintheory]

I agree, with both points

Personally though, those showy guitarists aren't really my jam though

I like showy if it’s done tastefully and musical, but that’s rarer than finding a real Dumble or Trainwreck LOL. I call it “flash with class” like a Ferrari or burst ‘59 LP (basically the opposite of EVH’s leadwork). I think it’s hard to be flashy without coming across too obnoxious. A few classical guitarist I think can do it. They have enough elegance in their execution to pull it off, but it’s rare their too

Another dumb saying I think besides “tone is in the fingers” is the one about saying it’s harder to write fewer notes meaningfully, but then are there plenty of amazing guitar solos that are more sparse in notes yet so few good ones that are fast and showy

 

[ccn]

I agree, with both points

Personally though, those showy guitarists aren't really my jam though

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I was meaning SANE people lol. I've never heard Hammett spoken about among the greats but maybe things have changed and the younger generation does view him as a Guitar God . I always considered him average at best .

 

[braintheory]

I was meaning SANE people lol. I've never heard Hammett spoken about among the greats but maybe things have changed and the younger generation does view him as a Guitar God . I always considered him average at best .

I’m not a Hammett hater or anything, but I’m from a younger generation than most on here and I’ve never heard anyone that thinks he’s great. I’ve only heard good things said about Hetfield

 

[paulyc]

I like showy if it’s done tastefully and musical, but that’s rarer than finding a real Dumble or Trainwreck LOL. I call it “flash with class” like a Ferrari or burst ‘59 LP (basically the opposite of EVH’s leadwork). I think it’s hard to be flashy without coming across too obnoxious. A few classical guitarist I think can do it. They have enough elegance in their execution to pull it off, but it’s rare their too

Another dumb saying I think besides “tone is in the fingers” is the one about saying it’s harder to write fewer notes meaningfully, but then are there plenty of amazing guitar solos that are more sparse in notes yet so few good ones that are fast and showy

You think EVH is fast WITHOUT class ? Am I reading that right ???

 

[braintheory]

You think EVH is fast WITHOUT class ? Am I reading that right ???

I’m entitled to my opinion, yes (even if it’s on the minority on here). It often to me comes across very noodly, all over the place, sometimes gimmicky and not coherent enough in a thread telling a story like the best ones of RR or Friedman that make the notes count more. Just my opinion. I like musical ideas to tell me a story and move me emotionally, give me goosebumps

Eruption, especially, is the epitome of what I don’t like. I get it, he inspired tons and tons of players, but not in a direction I care for in guitar playing. I’m also not a fan at all of the over the top plate reverb or delay. To me it’s like the sonic equivalent of too much cologne or a girl wearing too much make up. I feel an already great tone should be without it and sadly many players followed suit there as well, even in most amp demos that almost aren’t amp demos to me anymore after a certain point of it

 

[ccn]

When Hagar joined it wasn't VH anymore to me and his playing was nothing like it was with the original lineup . Not a fan of Hagar at all.

Nothing comes close to how amazing Eddie was in the early days though . Incredibly tasteful . I remember when he was interviewed about why he started using the whammy bar , he said his playing got too fast and he needed something to break it up.

 

[braintheory]

When Hagar joined it wasn't VH anymore to me and his playing was nothing like it was with the original lineup . Not a fan of Hagar at all.

Nothing comes close to how amazing Eddie was in the early days though . Incredibly tasteful . I remember when he was interviewed about why he started using the whammy bar , he said his playing got too fast and he needed something to break it up.

Yeah I’m not trying to get in an argument or pissing match. I think a lot of his riffs are fantastic and admire the ways he uses the dotted rhythms (swings) that some don’t realize and syncopations. I just don’t care for his leadwork in anything I’ve heard. I don’t mind the whammy use and his feel is awesome on the leads, just (to me) not the musical content itself. I just prefer more coherency in the direction the notes go in telling a story

 

[paulyc]

I’m entitled to my opinion, yes (even if it’s on the minority on here). It often to me comes across very noodly, all over the place, sometimes gimmicky and not coherent enough in a thread telling a story like the best ones of RR or Friedman that make the notes count more. Just my opinion. I like musical ideas to tell me a story and move me emotionally, give me goosebumps

Eruption, especially, is the epitome of what I don’t like. I get it, he inspired tons and tons of players, but not in a direction I care for in guitar playing. I’m also not a fan at all of the over the top plate reverb or delay. To me it’s like the sonic equivalent of too much cologne or a girl wearing too much make up. I feel an already great tone should be without it and sadly many players followed suit there as well, even in most amp demos that almost aren’t amp demos to me anymore after a certain point of it

Of course you’re entitled to your opinion, I’m just surprised I guess. I think there are tons of guys that came after EVH that fit that description, but I (personally) wouldn’t lump EVH in with them.

What do you think of Vito Bratta ? I’m curious…

 

[braintheory]

Of course you’re entitled to your opinion, I’m just surprised I guess.

I understand. It’s just my opinion and I’m ok explaining as well as I can why I feel how I do and I’m also always happy to eat my words when I’m proven otherwise

I think also much of what made EVH great was the timing and feel and while I do appreciate that, I don’t feel his musical ideas are as interesting with harmony, melody or counterpoint (often times there are trade offs I think when composing) and I think my ear naturally picks up more on harmony or melody, but I have gained much more appreciation for his rhythm and timing subtleties with age