OT: pistol shooters, need some advice

[moronmountain]

Jeff

[/quote]

There is no such thing as "stopping power"

Not a true statement. Wound ballistics are a complex issue. There is temporary cavitation and permanent cavitation as well as thousands of rounds and loads that would have to be tested in order to make a determination as to effectiveness of any given caliber BUT there has been testing done on animals to determine how many seconds different loads and caliber take to disable that animal and thats where the term "stopping power" has credibility. Real world shootings as well as actual combat/law enforcment records prove there are BIG differences in the way different rounds effect the body. I will stick with my 45 BUT caliber is not as important as is the shooters ability to accuratly fire his/her weapon under duress and stressful situations. Its a whole different ballgame when someone is threatening you/shooting back as it is to punch holes in paper targets at the range. ..............John[/quote]

I'm not arguing that, but when most people say "stopping power" they think of someone literally being knocked back from a slug. FWIW if you shoot any vital organ with pretty much anything, the person will tend to "stop" what they're doing. I know more people than I can count that have actually shot and/or killed other people. Most people if they're scared couldn't hit a person standing right in front of them with a handgun. Someone mentioned handguns are the way to go so you can have a free hand....... Someone else mentioned flashlight are bad because they give away your position? Other stuff about racking a shotgun would give away your position? These sound all well and good, but in a REAL situation, a long gun is ALWAYS better than a handgun. Having a flashlight is better than not having one, and most home invaders would scat at any noise in your house let alone a shotgun round being chambered. My disclaimer is if you DO use a shotgun, NEVER leave a round in the chamber. Shotguns can easily fire by simply tapping the butt of them on the ground. No matter what you use, you need to practice a LOT. If you really did end up in a situation, you prolly won't even remember what you did. I agree with pretty much everything you said man. I'm just responding to multiple posts on this one. I also like .45's but I have small hands, and .40's suit me better. It piggybacks on your statement about being able to fire the weapon. I could fire my .45 fine at the range, but I always questioned my ability to use it under stress. Hence the .40 came in to play.

 

[riffy]

Were I ever to bury one of my .50 Desert Eagle rounds in
someones chest, I would be betting my life it would have
"stopping power". It would knock you off your feet at closer
range.

 

[moronmountain]

It would knock you off your feet at closer
range.

No it wouldn't. Sorry, but it wouldn't. How can a piece of lead that ways less than an ounce knock a 150+ pound object off it's feet? The answer? It can't. You would fall straight down or in the direction you were already moving.

 

[dicky sofa]

The first time I shot the P226 it took less than 10 rounds to get a tight grouping at 100ft and it was heaven after that. I find the Sig to be less tiring than the equivalent Glock but I wouldn't kick the Glock out of bed if someone gave me one... Yeah, the Sig's a little more work to clean but dayum, it's such a fine gun.

A buddy has a 10mm Glock 20 that is a beast... He put a laser on it for shits and giggles and that made it a butt-load of fun for plinkin'...

The 9mm P226 is my all time favorite handgun!

The Sig Sauer 226 .40 cal. is a FINE handgun.
I can't think of one that could actually outperform it.

Glock makes a very reliable .40 cal as well. I just
personally don't think it performs as well as the
Sig.

You have refined tastes in handguns then!
I LOVE that gun. I do also like the Glock but the Sig
just outperforms it... The Sig has more parts than
the Glock though...lol

 

[riffy]

It would knock you off your feet at closer
range.

No it wouldn't. Sorry, but it wouldn't. How can a piece of lead that ways less than an ounce knock a 150+ pound object off it's feet? The answer? It can't. You would fall straight down or in the direction you were already moving.

You are forgetting one major thing, just how fast is that 325 grain
bullet traveling? My Eagle will put it out at roughly 1350 ft per second. Then take in to account the S&W 500 Magnum. That is much closer to 1800 ft/per sec.

 

[grooveHT]

JEFF...DO WHAT TEH MYTH BUSTERS SAY AND DIVE INTO A POOL OF WATER...TEH SLUGS WILL BREAK UP!!!!!!!

fuck why didn't I think of that man?

 

[moronmountain]

No it wouldn't. Sorry, but it wouldn't. How can a piece of lead that ways less than an ounce knock a 150+ pound object off it's feet? The answer? It can't. You would fall straight down or in the direction you were already moving.

You are forgetting one major thing, just how fast is that 325 grain
bullet traveling? My Eagle will put it out at roughly 1350 ft per second. Then take in to account the S&W 500 Magnum. That is much closer to 1800 ft/per sec.

I'm not forgetting that at all. I stand by my first statement. Have you ever seen a person get shot in real life? They fall straight to the ground if they fall. They NEVER go flying back. If what you say is true, then if you shot a deer with a 30-06 the deer would fly totally off the ground. A 30-06 has more poop than a .50 action express by a good margine. Has anyone here shot a deer that went flying off it's feet? I'm going to say the answer is no or someone likes to exaggerate. I agree that a .50 AE will kill ya dead and do it quickly, but it's not gonna knock you even backwards, let alone off your feet.

 

[riffy]

No it wouldn't. Sorry, but it wouldn't. How can a piece of lead that ways less than an ounce knock a 150+ pound object off it's feet? The answer? It can't. You would fall straight down or in the direction you were already moving.

You are forgetting one major thing, just how fast is that 325 grain
bullet traveling? My Eagle will put it out at roughly 1350 ft per second. Then take in to account the S&W 500 Magnum. That is much closer to 1800 ft/per sec.

I'm not forgetting that at all. I stand by my first statement. Have you ever seen a person get shot in real life? They fall straight to the ground if they fall. They NEVER go flying back. If what you say is true, then if you shot a deer with a 30-06 the deer would fly totally off the ground. A 30-06 has more poop than a .50 action express by a good margine. Has anyone here shot a deer that went flying off it's feet? I'm going to say the answer is no or someone likes to exaggerate. I agree that a .50 AE will kill ya dead and do it quickly, but it's not gonna knock you even backwards, let alone off your feet.

I will retract my statement about getting knocked off your feet. I did a bit of research and even absorbing all the energy of the hit,
it doesn't happen. The person would fall straight down. My appologies for MY misinformation! I do stand corrected.

 

[SFW]

Another great round to consider is the .357 Sig. The Glock 31 is chambered for this round. It's a great shooting gun, and has plenty of punch in a tight situation.

 

[grooveHT]

I will retract my statement about getting knocked off your feet. I did a bit of research and even absorbing all the energy of the hit,
it doesn't happen. The person would fall straight down. My appologies for MY misinformation! I do stand corrected.

Riffy, taking a lesson from Carly, never admit when you're in error or even wrong, instead go to the matresses, defaming their mother, father, race, religion, possibly their mate or kids. Then call out their crap skills on guitar and ask them to post clips longer than 30 seconds, while reminding them how many endorsements you have. Thats the way to go, I think.

Btw guys, thanks for all the advice. This is why I thought I'd aska bit before I went out and bought some random sidearm.

 

[riffy]

I will retract my statement about getting knocked off your feet. I did a bit of research and even absorbing all the energy of the hit,
it doesn't happen. The person would fall straight down. My appologies for MY misinformation! I do stand corrected.

Riffy, taking a lesson from Carly, never admit when you're in error or even wrong, instead go to the matresses, defaming their mother, father, race, religion, possibly their mate or kids. Then call out their crap skills on guitar and ask them to post clips longer than 30 seconds, while reminding them how many endorsements you have. Thats the way to go, I think.

Btw guys, thanks for all the advice. This is why I thought I'd aska bit before I went out and bought some random sidearm.

Dangit! I did it wrong! That is what I get for only renting a vagina!

 

[grooveHT]

I will retract my statement about getting knocked off your feet. I did a bit of research and even absorbing all the energy of the hit,
it doesn't happen. The person would fall straight down. My appologies for MY misinformation! I do stand corrected.

Riffy, taking a lesson from Carly, never admit when you're in error or even wrong, instead go to the matresses, defaming their mother, father, race, religion, possibly their mate or kids. Then call out their crap skills on guitar and ask them to post clips longer than 30 seconds, while reminding them how many endorsements you have. Thats the way to go, I think.

Btw guys, thanks for all the advice. This is why I thought I'd aska bit before I went out and bought some random sidearm.

Dangit! I did it wrong! That is what I get for only renting a vagina!

Damn skippy...I originally rented, but more of a rent-to-own I think. It works for me.

 

[moronmountain]

I will retract my statement about getting knocked off your feet. I did a bit of research and even absorbing all the energy of the hit,
it doesn't happen. The person would fall straight down. My appologies for MY misinformation! I do stand corrected.

No need to apoligize. It was a fun discussion IMO.

 

[moronmountain]

Another great round to consider is the .357 Sig. The Glock 31 is chambered for this round. It's a great shooting gun, and has plenty of punch in a tight situation.

Those are nice as well. I bit faster than a .40 but a little less lead. I think ballistics are pretty similar on both. I just like more "commonly used" rounds. The Sig p229 you can get a .357 barrel and a .40 barrel for it and use either round. They use the same mags.

 

[StevieRaveOn]

... Lasers are pretty useless too, as you can only zero them in for a specific range. They won't be that accurate when you're closer/further away from the target.
...

Like any other non-adjustable sighting device... It's all about hold-over/under... Even in long distance shooting, except there you've ranged your target and have a bullet-drop data sheet either with you or memorized, and you dial the hold-over, among other things into the optics.

 

[StevieRaveOn]

Sorry to argue, but there have been many tests done that show shotgun rounds (buck shot, even bird shot) will travel through many walls. Hollowpoint Pistol rounds generally won't due to disspating more energy mushrooming out.

If you can find them, I'd love to read them.

Ok, here's a test... I'm gonna stand on one side of a wall, 15ft away from it, you're gonna stand on the other side of said wall ~5ft. from it... I'm gonna fire a 00 round at the wall, and we'll discuss it afterwards at the hospital, if there's even a point in call the paramedics. With the spread only opening up to about 2" max at that distance, my bet's on whether we even have to call 911 or not, not whether it's gonna penetrate.

If you're not up for the test, lets please quit internet-arguing about it.

 

[StevieRaveOn]

Well surprise is going to be out of the question when my 80 pound living weapon, Vixen the GSD, is going nuts to take a chunk out of the guy anyways.

Man some of you guys are speaking like you have special forces or Marine backgrounds, anyone with prior service?

Not me. I did however learn quite a bit about fighting with an Army Ranger. He was a tunnel rat in Vietnam. I learned a TON from him. Also, still shoot with him at VMI a couple of times a month.

Squealie knows who I am talkin' bout too...lol

Hrm... so, if I ever get up to Virginia we'll play with guitar AND guns... Fun.

 

[Digital Jams]

Mine is bigger than yours.............................

Extras points if you know what it is.

 

[Code001]

Sorry to argue, but there have been many tests done that show shotgun rounds (buck shot, even bird shot) will travel through many walls. Hollowpoint Pistol rounds generally won't due to disspating more energy mushrooming out.

If you can find them, I'd love to read them.

Ok, here's a test... I'm gonna stand on one side of a wall, 15ft away from it, you're gonna stand on the other side of said wall ~5ft. from it... I'm gonna fire a 00 round at the wall, and we'll discuss it afterwards at the hospital, if there's even a point in call the paramedics. With the spread only opening up to about 2" max at that distance, my bet's on whether we even have to call 911 or not, not whether it's gonna penetrate.

If you're not up for the test, lets please quit internet-arguing about it.

WTF is up with your attitude? You're coming after me for no reason. I asked to read the articles if he had them. I didn't say he was wrong or right. I explained why I felt a shotgun is better for home defense, too. However, you just had to come in here with your sarcastic remarks and try to talk about shooting me. This is productive towards our discussion how exactly? Did I mention using 00 buck? No. I like how you pulled that round out of your ass. Try #6 to #8 birdshot. Its penetration is much less, yet can still wound effectively.

 

[riffy]

Mine is bigger than yours.............................

Extras points if you know what it is.

No clue, but it looks like it could fire a tactical nuke...lol