Proof there is a God

acceptance said:
I will see if I can find out. I know the reference but I will have to dig to find the specifics.
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No worries. I was just interested because I studied Judaism and jewish history pretty intensively when I was attending a messianic synagogue. Dude had a seder plate and went full on anti christ later on. It was weird but I moved outta town before that went down. Just strange to find him hanging out on FB with a bunch of serious christ haters after learning quite a bit from him when he was "christian". I've never actually seen such hostility to Christ anywhere else.

That was the last straw in my protestant walk. I didn't go to church for 20+ years until my son became a christian on his own volition. He wanted to attend a church. I refused to attend any more protestant pole barns. So on a gamble we attended a russian divine liturgy and so much I had missed for years was opened up to me in a single sunday morning.
 
VonBonfire said:
No worries. I was just interested because I studied Judaism and jewish history pretty intensively when I was attending a messianic synagogue. Dude had a seder plate and went full on anti christ later on. It was weird but I moved outta town before that went down. Just strange to find him hanging out on FB with a bunch of serious christ haters after learning quite a bit from him when he was "christian". I've never actually seen such hostility to Christ anywhere else.

That was the last straw in my protestant walk. I didn't go to church for 20+ years until my son became a christian on his own volition. He wanted to attend a church. I refused to attend any more protestant pole barns. So on a gamble we attended a russian divine liturgy and so much I had missed for years was opened up to me in a single sunday morning.
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That's an interesting anecdote and wow -- cool story with your son!
 
jdel77 said:
Nicea was simply a meeting of a few hundred bishops from the East and West of the Roman Christian Empire, which pretty much set the borders, laws and religious beliefs of Christendom.

They all met in Nicea (now in modern day Turkey) to lock in agreement about:

> Whether Jesus was divine like God the Father (Christianity) or not divine (Arianism)

> to settle on a date for Passover

> to deal with the rival cult of Meletius who stated that God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were not united in a Trinity, but all had separate states of reality and purpose and couldn't combine into one

> On top of that, whether the Father and Son were united or separate

> What to do with the believers of rival Christian cults (basically call them heretics and make them outcasts or brutally murder them off)

> What to do with Christians who had been persecuted by the Roman and had "lapsed", but now that things were easing up under the Emperor Licinius, would they be accepted back into Churches.


Long story short, Constantine and a bunch of other movers and shakers locked in the laws of the Empire, formally creating early Christianity by mixing in old school Jewish Judaism with the (relatively) new and popular Jesus cult.

This maintained the monotheism of Judaism by making the new guy (Jesus) the same as the old guy (God).
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Good post. 300+ bishops in the year 325a.d is not a small matter. It's not a small matter in 2024. Plus I believe there were 1200 or so other deacons and clergy.in attendance so it wasn't like it was formed strictly under the direction of Constantine. It was a consensus and there are some legends of the early church in attendance. I have heard commentary on the council and it is usually spun in a way to make it look as though all our theology was concocted right there when really they were working out some of the heresies that were creating problems in the church i.e arianism. It would probably take a leader with some pull, like Constantine, to even make it happen. I need to look more into some of the ecumenical councils. It will make a good study.
 
Here's the deal though, in short terms:

Modern Christianity is a mix of Jesus Cults
Jesus Cults were a mix of monotheistic Judaism
Islam is pretty much the regional equivalent of Christianity, with Mohammed replacing Jesus
Judaism is one of many Hebrew religions which emerged from the worship of Yahweh, who was just one of the many gods of the Elohim

Now the fun part...

Nearly every pre-Abrahamic religion says all the same stuff about these Elohim.
They're also called the Annunaki, and references to their mixed human offspring are in Genesis as the Nephilim.

We have these tech advanced space aliens represented in Sumerian/Mesopotamian scripts like the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Indian Vedas, American Indian and Mayan myths and texts, Australian Aboriginal and New Zealand Maori myths and art, pre-European myths, even the Ancient Egyptians clearly referenced the existence of these things even before Kehmet (pre- Dynastic Egypt) and their Osirian pantheon.

So take from that what you will.
Either pretty much every belief system from over 12, 000 years ago are all somehow lying and spouting total bullshit about the exact same thing, or it's gotta be true.

And if that's the case, then it makes fighting and arguing over our favourite flavour of whatever pretty fuckin irrelevant, and a discussion which I would love to get into another time.
 
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jdel77 said:
Islam is pretty much the regional equivalent of Christianity, with Mohammed replacing Jesus
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Islam is a ripoff of judaism's dietary laws and orthodox christian prayer practices.

jdel77 said:
We have these tech advanced space aliens represented in Sumerian/Mesopotamian scripts like the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Indian Vedas, American Indian and Mayan myths and texts, Australian Aboriginal and New Zealand Maori myths and art, pre-European myths, even the Ancient Egyptians clearly referenced the existence of these things even before Kehmet (pre- Dynastic Egypt) and their Osirian pantheon.
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Most of them are of a negative force because they were among the fallen elohim who were cast out of heaven. A third of the angels, now bound to earth.

jdel77 said:
And if that's the case, then it makes fighting and arguing over our favourite flavour of whatever pretty fuckin irrelevant, and a discussion which I would lover to get into another time.
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I am all for that discussion but I will never give up orthodoxy. It's how you properly war against the fallen unclean spirits.
 
jdel77 said:
Here's the deal though, in short terms:

Modern Christianity is a mix of Jesus Cults
Jesus Cults were a mix of monotheistic Judaism
Islam is pretty much the regional equivalent of Christianity, with Mohammed replacing Jesus
Judaism is one of many Hebrew religions which emerged from the worship of Yahweh, who was just one of the many gods of the Elohim

Now the fun part...

Nearly every pre-Abrahamic religion says all the same stuff about these Elohim.
They're also called the Annunaki, and references to their mixed human offspring are in Genesis as the Nephilim.

We have these tech advanced space aliens represented in Sumerian/Mesopotamian scripts like the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Indian Vedas, American Indian and Mayan myths and texts, Australian Aboriginal and New Zealand Maori myths and art, pre-European myths, even the Ancient Egyptians clearly referenced the existence of these things even before Kehmet (pre- Dynastic Egypt) and their Osirian pantheon.

So take from that what you will.
Either pretty much every belief system from over 12, 000 years ago are all somehow lying and spouting total bullshit about the exact same thing, or it's gotta be true.

And if that's the case, then it makes fighting and arguing over our favourite flavour of whatever pretty fuckin irrelevant, and a discussion which I would lover to get into another time.
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What are your sources for these broad strokes?
 
acceptance said:
What are your sources for these broad strokes?
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I call it a highly secularized history with a good dose of ancient aliens stuff that has become popular in recent times. Mr. Crabtree next door is consumed by teh aliens. When they pull the project bluebeam and say these are the creator gods he will be lined up for destruction short of the Lord's intervention. They have primed a lot of heads with that stuff. Zechariah Sitchin's misleading sensationalist bunk money maker. If you want a more accurate take check out some of the Michael Heiser (RIP) videos, he was super knowledgeable on the topic of Sumeria.
 
jdel77 said:
Nicea was simply a meeting of a few hundred bishops from the East and West of the Roman Christian Empire, which pretty much set the borders, laws and religious beliefs of Christendom.

They all met in Nicea (now in modern day Turkey) to lock in agreement about:

> Whether Jesus was divine like God the Father (Christianity) or not divine (Arianism)

> to settle on a date for Passover

> to deal with the rival cult of Meletius who stated that God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were not united in a Trinity, but all had separate states of reality and purpose and couldn't combine into one

> On top of that, whether the Father and Son were united or separate

> What to do with the believers of rival Christian cults (basically call them heretics and make them outcasts or brutally murder them off)

> What to do with Christians who had been persecuted by the Roman and had "lapsed", but now that things were easing up under the Emperor Licinius, would they be accepted back into Churches.


Long story short, Constantine and a bunch of other movers and shakers locked in the laws of the Empire, formally creating early Christianity by mixing in old school Jewish Judaism with the (relatively) new and popular Jesus cult.

This maintained the monotheism of Judaism by making the new guy (Jesus) the same as the old guy (God).
Click to expand...
The implication that this council "formally created early Christianity" is not accurate.
We have Dan Brown's "the DaVinci code" to thank for this rhetoric.

There is no historical basis for the idea that Nicaea established the canon or created the bible.

None of the early records from the council, nor eyewitness attendees (Eusebius or Athanasius, for example), mentions any conciliar decision that established the canon of Scripture.
 
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