Proof there is a God

acceptance said:
That's not true. I'm not even going to bother to cite a source. Look it up yourself.
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I did. I thought it might have been Truman but no... it was from the Civil war

The origins of "In God We Trust" as a political motto lie in the American Civil War, where Union supporters wanted to emphasize their attachment to God and to boost morale.

Guess what God they were talking about. I can assure you it wasn't bloody vishnu or allah.
 
311splawndude said:
You are not wrong. We have quite a few people over here that are not only taking advantage or our Amendments, but also taking advantage of our laisse fair approach to shit.
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Christians and Christian attitudes are more prevalent in Red states and amongst Republicans. They don't go for that sicko Democrat gender crap I can assure you. They are more likely to be a Trump supporter. Not because they necessarily think Trump reflects Christianity particularly well personally though I might add.
 
Thumbpicker said:
Christians and Christian attitudes are more prevalent in Red states and amongst Republicans. They don't go for that sicko Democrat gender crap I can assure you. They are more likely to be a Trump supporter. Not because they necessarily think Trump reflects Christianity particularly well personally though I might add.
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yep
 
Let's take a peek at each of the preamble's of the 13 colonies shall we
shall I continue?

Georgia - To perpetuate the principles of free government, insure justice to all, preserve peace, promote the interest and happiness of the citizen and of the family, and transmit to posterity the enjoyment of liberty, we the people of Georgia, relying upon the protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish

South Carolina - We, the people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the preservation and perpetuation of the same.

North Carolina - We, the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations

Pennsylvania - WE, the people of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for
New York - We The People of the State of New York, grateful to Almighty God for our Freedom, in order to secure its blessings, DO ESTABLISH THIS CONSTITUTION

New Jersey - We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing upon our endeavors to secure and transmit the same unimpaired to succeeding generations, do ordain and establish this Constitution

Massachusets - We, therefore, the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging, with grateful hearts, the goodness of the great Legislator of the universe, in affording us, in the course of His providence, an opportunity, deliberately and peaceably, without fraud, violence or surprise, of entering into an original, explicit, and solemn .
 
acceptance said:
I think Monti is frustrated because some of us are assessing his arguments differently than him, arguments which he views as obvious and unassailable. On the other hand, in my view the issue with Mary is a reasonable point to raise when considering tensions between scriptural and ecclesiastic authority. I am just not sure that it immediately "Proves" Protestantism over Orthodoxy. For one thing, Protestant churches themselves disagree about many matters — does that indict Protestantism as lacking "authority" as an approach to Christianity?
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That wasn't the main goal. One has to pick his battles. The initial goal was to refute @VonBonfire heretical claim that orthodoxy and the bible are in harmony while at the same time claiming mary was "holy and sinless". That mission has been clearly accomplished. It doesn't matter how many times any of you present arguments against or kick and scream about it. The bible nowhere in any form or fashion ever asserts that mary is sinless. It does on the other hand clearly state that all are sinful, clearly and explicitly.
Now, adding Christ into that mix is foolish because in those very same contexts the bible clearly goes on to say because all are sinful we should appeal to Christ the sinless one for forgiveness.
So to make this easy. The bible says all are sinful, but Jesus was sinless. Plain and clear as day.
 
acceptance said:
I don't want to get too sidetracked here but this is an entirely un-American sentiment. You should also remember that only relatively recently were women given the right to vote in the US. Some people still believe it was a bad idea. And Islam for example is a varied religion, not a monolith — and apparently the majority of muslim women prefer to live as they do. Who are you to question that?
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here we go again. Would you like for me to present what the quran has to say on the matter? The Quran explicitly (although I know you don't believe in explicit writing) states that anyone opposing their belief system is the infidel.

"the majority of muslim women prefer to live as they do" - back up this claim. Show us.
 
acceptance said:
The issue with interpretation is that it depends on one's framework as well. Everyone approaches the book with a different idea about what it is, says, means, and how to interpret it. You believe the Bible is not authoritative unless it is 100% infallible, true, consistent, etc. That is not the case for everyone.

I want to go back to Rom 3:23. It states "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". An alternative view takes into account the context — IE Paul is exhorting the church of Rome not to get caught up in comparing status between Jews and Gentiles, and therefore not making a universal theological statement. To support this argument I offered Jesus as an example of a human having no sin, which you agreed is true. Therefore, it is conceivable that even though it is not mentioned explicitly, it is possible that the same applies to Mary.
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man o man, you make my head hurt. But the bible explicitly states Jesus was without sin. I can provide the multitude of texts again if you like.
so let me say this slowly. The bible states all are sinful and Jesus was sinless. It does not state that mary was sinless. With regard to the romans 3 text, if that doesn't satisfy you, here is this text for the 4th time.

Romans 3
“There is none righteous, not even one;
11There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12All have turned aside, together they have become worthless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
13“Their throat is an open tomb,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14“Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
15“Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17And the path of peace they have not known.”
18“There is no fear of God before their eyes
 
MontiCristo said:
That wasn't the main goal. One has to pick his battles. The initial goal was to refute @VonBonfire heretical claim that orthodoxy and the bible are in harmony while at the same time claiming mary was "holy and sinless". That mission has been clearly accomplished. It doesn't matter how many times any of you present arguments against or kick and scream about it. The bible nowhere in any form or fashion ever asserts that mary is sinless. It does on the other hand clearly state that all are sinful, clearly and explicitly.
Now, adding Christ into that mix is foolish because in those very same contexts the bible clearly goes on to say because all are sinful we should appeal to Christ the sinless one for forgiveness.
So to make this easy. The bible says all are sinful, but Jesus was sinless. Plain and clear as day.
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Why is the claim heretical? Again, it's not clear to me that Paul is making some kind of universal theological proclamation in his letter to the Roman church. I'm not "Adding Christ" — I'm pointing out that he wasn't sinful, therefore supporting the argument that it wasn't a universal proclamation. You're right that the Bible doesn't say that Mary is sinless, but that doesn't mean she was sinful.
 
acceptance said:
That's because you think everything is black and white.
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Yes this is black and white.

Romans 3
“There is none righteous, not even one;
11There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12All have turned aside, together they have become worthless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
13“Their throat is an open tomb,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14“Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
15“Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17And the path of peace they have not known.”
18“There is no fear of God before their eyes
 
acceptance said:
Why is the claim heretical? Again, it's not clear to me that Paul is making some kind of universal theological proclamation in his letter to the Roman church. I'm not "Adding Christ" — I'm pointing out that he wasn't sinful, therefore supporting the argument that it wasn't a universal proclamation. You're right that the Bible doesn't say that Mary is sinless, but that doesn't mean she was sinful.
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"it doesn't mean she was sinful" :ROFLMAO:

Romans 3
“There is none righteous, not even one;
11There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12All have turned aside, together they have become worthless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
13“Their throat is an open tomb,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14“Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
15“Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17And the path of peace they have not known.”
18“There is no fear of God before their eyes
 
@acceptance let me ask you a question. If we were reviewing a court case and the document said

"no one was wearing shoes"
"not even one"

would you argue that people were wearing shoes?
 
MontiCristo said:
"it doesn't mean she was sinful" :ROFLMAO:

Romans 3
“There is none righteous, not even one;
11There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12All have turned aside, together they have become worthless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
13“Their throat is an open tomb,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14“Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
15“Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17And the path of peace they have not known.”
18“There is no fear of God before their eyes
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Look, that's an repeat of psalms and Ecclesiastes. You can't read that in such a wooden literal sense. "No one seeks God?" Of course some do. "No one does Good?" Of course some do. "No one fears God?" Of course some do. It's a style of writing. The writer is lamenting wickedness and being hyperbolic.
 
acceptance said:
That's because you think everything is black and white.
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That's because the Bible is a benchmark for behavior. This whole modern rationalism where you can say there is "what's right for me" and "what's right for you" is bullshit and it's also why our society is in such a mess. Without the Bible there is no right and wrong and people can be as depraved as they want. That would appeal to the Devil and his satanists.
 
acceptance said:
Look, that's an repeat of psalms and Ecclesiastes. You can't read that in such a wooden literal sense. "No one seeks God?" Of course some do. "No one does Good?" Of course some do. "No one fears God?" Of course some do. It's a style of writing. The writer is lamenting wickedness and being hyperbolic.
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no it's Romans 3:11-18
I can send you all the other texts that support man's wickedness and sinfulness if you like, but get ready because there are a lot coming.
 
acceptance said:
Look, that's an repeat of psalms and Ecclesiastes. You can't read that in such a wooden literal sense. "No one seeks God?" Of course some do. "No one does Good?" Of course some do. "No one fears God?" Of course some do. It's a style of writing. The writer is lamenting wickedness and being hyperbolic.
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Well yes I agree with style of writing comment that you made there and you should take note next time VonBonfire wants to interpret it all strictly literally. However I would say there were times in Israel's history where the vast majority of them strayed. For example, the book of Judges shows a cycle of going of the rails and being brought back to God and repentance.
 
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